xr3car : Messages : 7477-7507 of 8167

http://www.formula1.com/races/calendar.html

Only 3 more weeks until Formula1 starts.

Technically, these are gas/[electric, mechanical or hydraulic] parallel hybrid vehicles even though they get 3 or 4 miles per gallon.

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/understanding_the_sport/8763.html

From: Bob Scoville <scovilleb@...>
To: "xr3car@yahoogroups.com" <xr3car@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 10:39 AM
Subject: RE: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic

The reason I say that is that the Budweiser Shootout this week had a halftime break. I thought it was an interesting concept. There would be enough time to swap out the batteries.

From: xr3car@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xr3car@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Scoville
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 8:35 AM
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic

Are there any electric cars in it yet?

Bob Scoville
Drafter
Rocky Mountain Prestress
scovilleb@...
Direct 303-964-7053
Cell

This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. Rocky Mountain Prestress may, at its sole discretion, monitor, review, retain and/or disclose the content of all email communications.

From: xr3car@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xr3car@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pat riepl
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 8:29 AM
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic

So how about the indy 500 this weekend! That is where the metal meets the meat.right?

From: "talon@..." <talon@...>
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic

As an exercise, the math is fun, but something not mentioned is the fact that the resulting number is to crack all permutations. If a brute force cracker is employed, it will stop when the crack is complete, so the average time to crack is exactly half of the calculated time to crack every combination. Still a long time though.

If your calculated time-to-crack is, say, a year, divide that in half and you get 6 months. Simply change your password every quarter and you will be fairly safe. Quite frankly, using the same password for more than one account is a lot bigger issue. If one is cracked, they all are at risk, and people tend to keep the same passwords longer on social media sites, or forget they have signed up and never change the password.

A good source of pretty good, easily remembered passwords are automotive vanity plates.

Just my two cents worth. . .

TALON

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-----Original message-----

From: DavidH <dsh1001@...>
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Feb 22, 2012 20:44:05 GMT+00:00
Subject: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic

Entertaining and informative I'd say. It gives me something to do when I am not out campaigning for the communist party. (because they are so much better and smarter than Democrats or Republicans) ;-)

I agree that it may be just as hard to "guess" a password of several words in a row but computers are not guessing.

I was basing my math on the 62 characters you mentioned and 16 "friendly" punctuation characters. So called because they will work with almost any password system. Some of the punctuation marks are not allowed on some sites for use in passwords. I forget which are the "friendly" ones but i think it is all of the ones above the numbers plus the tilde and all the brackets. (I did say 76 characters but I should have said 78)

They methodically go through every possible combination of whatever characters they are set to use. words are characters and no matter what words you use or how many, that combination of characters will come up in a search of all possible combinations.

ilovecookies will pop up in that search and so will ilovespoons, spoonsloveme, catseatmice and every other combination of words you can possibly string together. All things being equal, it would be just as hard to crack a password with words in them as it would be to crack a password of similar length that is random but all lower case.

Unfortunately, all things are not equal in this case. Most people have a vocabulary of about 10,000 words but only use about 1000 of them or less on a regular basis.This makes it easy to crack a code like ilovecookies because they are all common words.

If you throw in words like desideratum or eleemosynary then you are almost on par with a password of random letters.

BTW my dictionary has 300,000 words (or so it says) but I have been told that I have a big dic tionary. http://www.oed.com/ claims to have over 600,000 words which just goes to show that no matter how big you think your dic tionary is, someone, somewhere has a bigger one.

--- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, Khouri Giordano <khourig@...> wrote:
>
> This is getting further off topic, but I haven't seen any complaints yet, so maybe it's entertaining anyway.
>
> Either your math is wrong or I'm not understanding you correctly.
>
> A random password uses a set of characters: 26 lower case, 26 upper case, 10 digits and a few symbols. Ignoring the symbols and just using letters and numbers, there are 26+26+10 = 62 possibilities for each character. Most of the time, there is an eight character minimum length for passwords. That would be 62^8 = 2.18 x 10^14 (~47 bits) possibilities. If the upper limit is 16 characters, then it's 62^8 + 62^9 + 62^10 .. + 62^16 =Â 4.84 x 10^28 (~95 bits) possibilities.
>
> This pageÂ mentions there are about 200,000 English words, but let's just use 1,000Â = 10^3Â (~10 bits) common ones as an example. Four random words would give 10^12 (~40 bits) possibilities. Assuming this fits into the above mentioned 16 character limit, a brute force attack that does not know you chose four English words in lower case, still would have 4.84 x 10^28Â (~95 bits)Â combinations to consider. In this view, both "password" and "1Wz522GdCKd715Vw" are equally valid.
>
> With all of that out of the way, attackers have a list of things they try first: "password", hobbies and common names. If they know something about you, they can try dates relevant to your life. If they know that you chose four random words in all lower case from a list of 1,000 specific words, then they've reduced their combination space to 10^12Â (~40 bits), which, admittedly is less than eight random characters withÂ 62^8 = 2.18 x 10^14 (~47 bits) possibilities.
>
> My point was that four words will be more memorable to you and just as hard to guess. Security is a chain which is only as strong as its weakest link. The first historic cracker that I knowÂ used social engineering to get into systems.Â
>
>
>
> >________________________________
> > From: DavidH <dsh1001@...>
> >To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> >Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 10:02 PM
> >Subject: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic
> >
> >
> >Â
> ><<"= quoted text">>
> ><<" In short, use the password that fits what you're trying to protect.">>
> >
> >I agree completely. a lot of applications don't need super strong passwords. But if you don't want your friends getting spammed because they are in your address book and your account gets hacked, then at least follow a couple of simple guidelines. Make your password at least 8 characters long and throw a couple of capital letters in there.
> >
> ><<"Being able to try 30,000 passwords in an hour could in many cases be dropped to 5 tries every few hours.">>
> >
> >This is sort of right except the pros use hijacked computers so they have more like 30,000 computers trying 30,000 passwords every few minutes for each email server they are trying to hack.
> >
> ><<"Having a larger selection of characters to choose from may make it take longer, but extending the length of the password to 4 words would do the same.">>
> >
> >I think that may be a bit of an understaement. My scenario was based on the two different types of passwords described being of equal length.
> >
> >A password with upper/lowercase, numbers and only the 16 "friendly"38 punctuation marks has a possibility of 76 characters for each space used in the password. ilovecookies only has 3.67034449 Ã 10^15 possibilities wheres an alphanumeric as described of equal length would have 6.50190515 Ã 10^20 possibilities.
> >
> >That means that even though ilovecookies seems to have a pretty big number attached to it, an alphanumeric/symbol password of that same 11 character length would have 177,147 TIMES the 3.67034449 Ã 10^15 provided by the eleven digit password ilovecookies. "Making it take longer" is the whole point of creating a unique password. A fully random password as described would not make it take just a little longer to crack the fully random password, it would take a Loooot longer. Even if they had an unrealistically super fast setup that could crack ilovecookies in an hour, it would take them (177 147 / 24) / 365.25 = 20.2084189 years to crack the alphanumeric.
> >
> >If it is something important to be password protected, I would rather it take them 20 years rather than an hour.
> >
> >As a final thought about beefing up your password, Consider this; ilovecookies or any password with all lowercase letters can be improved significantly by adding a single capitol letter. Just change it to ilovEcookies and your password is almost three times more secure by adding 7.05835481 Ã 10^15 more unique combinations for a total of 1.07286993 Ã 10^16 possible combinations.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

#7478

From: comftntrtl@...
Date: Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:37 pm
Subject: No more Viagra Ads

comftntrtl

Thanks for all your password suggestions...

Just reporting I've changed my Yahoo password to one with 3 words & 2 symbols,
so there shouldn't be anymore unwanted things being credited to me that I did
not send. Now my only problem will be remembering what in the world my new
password is!  :>(

Again, this was a problem at Yahoo.Com where 240 of my addresses are kept... It
was Yahoo that was "Hacked"; not my iMac. It is as clean as a whistle.

Emails from me will always have a subject on the Subject line. Do not open any
that don't.

Warren Behler

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#7479

From: "Tony Cortez" <tonico222@...>
Date: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:49 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Off Topic

tonico333

Indy 500???? It's the Daytona 500!!

----- Original Message -----

From: pat riepl

To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 7:29 AM

Subject: Re: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic

So how about the indy 500 this weekend! That is where the metal meets the meat.right?

From: "talon@..." <talon@...>
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic

As an exercise, the math is fun, but something not mentioned is the fact that the resulting number is to crack all permutations. If a brute force cracker is employed, it will stop when the crack is complete, so the average time to crack is exactly half of the calculated time to crack every combination. Still a long time though.

If your calculated time-to-crack is, say, a year, divide that in half and you get 6 months. Simply change your password every quarter and you will be fairly safe. Quite frankly, using the same password for more than one account is a lot bigger issue. If one is cracked, they all are at risk, and people tend to keep the same passwords longer on social media sites, or forget they have signed up and never change the password.

A good source of pretty good, easily remembered passwords are automotive vanity plates.

Just my two cents worth. . .

TALON

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-----Original message-----

From: DavidH <dsh1001@...>
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Feb 22, 2012 20:44:05 GMT+00:00
Subject: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic

Entertaining and informative I'd say. It gives me something to do when I am not out campaigning for the communist party. (because they are so much better and smarter than Democrats or Republicans) ;-)

I agree that it may be just as hard to "guess" a password of several words in a row but computers are not guessing.

I was basing my math on the 62 characters you mentioned and 16 "friendly" punctuation characters. So called because they will work with almost any password system. Some of the punctuation marks are not allowed on some sites for use in passwords. I forget which are the "friendly" ones but i think it is all of the ones above the numbers plus the tilde and all the brackets. (I did say 76 characters but I should have said 78)

They methodically go through every possible combination of whatever characters they are set to use. words are characters and no matter what words you use or how many, that combination of characters will come up in a search of all possible combinations.

ilovecookies will pop up in that search and so will ilovespoons, spoonsloveme, catseatmice and every other combination of words you can possibly string together. All things being equal, it would be just as hard to crack a password with words in them as it would be to crack a password of similar length that is random but all lower case.

Unfortunately, all things are not equal in this case. Most people have a vocabulary of about 10,000 words but only use about 1000 of them or less on a regular basis.This makes it easy to crack a code like ilovecookies because they are all common words.

If you throw in words like desideratum or eleemosynary then you are almost on par with a password of random letters.

BTW my dictionary has 300,000 words (or so it says) but I have been told that I have a big dic tionary. http://www.oed.com/ claims to have over 600,000 words which just goes to show that no matter how big you think your dic tionary is, someone, somewhere has a bigger one.

--- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, Khouri Giordano <khourig@...> wrote:
>
> This is getting further off topic, but I haven't seen any complaints yet, so maybe it's entertaining anyway.
>
> Either your math is wrong or I'm not understanding you correctly.
>
> A random password uses a set of characters: 26 lower case, 26 upper case, 10 digits and a few symbols. Ignoring the symbols and just using letters and numbers, there are 26+26+10 = 62 possibilities for each character. Most of the time, there is an eight character minimum length for passwords. That would be 62^8 = 2.18 x 10^14 (~47 bits) possibilities. If the upper limit is 16 characters, then it's 62^8 + 62^9 + 62^10 .. + 62^16 =Â 4.84 x 10^28 (~95 bits) possibilities.
>
> This pageÂ mentions there are about 200,000 English words, but let's just use 1,000Â = 10^3Â (~10 bits) common ones as an example. Four random words would give 10^12 (~40 bits) possibilities. Assuming this fits into the above mentioned 16 character limit, a brute force attack that does not know you chose four English words in lower case, still would have 4.84 x 10^28Â (~95 bits)Â combinations to consider. In this view, both "password" and "1Wz522GdCKd715Vw" are equally valid.
>
> With all of that out of the way, attackers have a list of things they try first: "password", hobbies and common names. If they know something about you, they can try dates relevant to your life. If they know that you chose four random words in all lower case from a list of 1,000 specific words, then they've reduced their combination space to 10^12Â (~40 bits), which, admittedly is less than eight random characters withÂ 62^8 = 2.18 x 10^14 (~47 bits) possibilities.
>
> My point was that four words will be more memorable to you and just as hard to guess. Security is a chain which is only as strong as its weakest link. The first historic cracker that I knowÂ used social engineering to get into systems.Â
>
>
>
> >________________________________
> > From: DavidH <dsh1001@...>
> >To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> >Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 10:02 PM
> >Subject: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic
> >
> >
> >Â
> ><<"= quoted text">>
> ><<" In short, use the password that fits what you're trying to protect.">>
> >
> >I agree completely. a lot of applications don't need super strong passwords. But if you don't want your friends getting spammed because they are in your address book and your account gets hacked, then at least follow a couple of simple guidelines. Make your password at least 8 characters long and throw a couple of capital letters in there.
> >
> ><<"Being able to try 30,000 passwords in an hour could in many cases be dropped to 5 tries every few hours.">>
> >
> >This is sort of right except the pros use hijacked computers so they have more like 30,000 computers trying 30,000 passwords every few minutes for each email server they are trying to hack.
> >
> ><<"Having a larger selection of characters to choose from may make it take longer, but extending the length of the password to 4 words would do the same.">>
> >
> >I think that may be a bit of an understaement. My scenario was based on the two different types of passwords described being of equal length.
> >
> >A password with upper/lowercase, numbers and only the 16 "friendly"38 punctuation marks has a possibility of 76 characters for each space used in the password. ilovecookies only has 3.67034449 Ã 10^15 possibilities wheres an alphanumeric as described of equal length would have 6.50190515 Ã 10^20 possibilities.
> >
> >That means that even though ilovecookies seems to have a pretty big number attached to it, an alphanumeric/symbol password of that same 11 character length would have 177,147 TIMES the 3.67034449 Ã 10^15 provided by the eleven digit password ilovecookies. "Making it take longer" is the whole point of creating a unique password. A fully random password as described would not make it take just a little longer to crack the fully random password, it would take a Loooot longer. Even if they had an unrealistically super fast setup that could crack ilovecookies in an hour, it would take them (177 147 / 24) / 365.25 = 20.2084189 years to crack the alphanumeric.
> >
> >If it is something important to be password protected, I would rather it take them 20 years rather than an hour.
> >
> >As a final thought about beefing up your password, Consider this; ilovecookies or any password with all lowercase letters can be improved significantly by adding a single capitol letter. Just change it to ilovEcookies and your password is almost three times more secure by adding 7.05835481 Ã 10^15 more unique combinations for a total of 1.07286993 Ã 10^16 possible combinations.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

#7480

From: "oaksfordj" <jmoaksforfd@...>
Date: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:10 pm
Subject: Does anyone in this group have a completed xR3?

oaksfordj

Plus I have  few other questions:
1.  With the transaxle now  located opposite of the the original design, doesn't
this make the shift pattern non intuitive?

2.  Does anyone actually have a Kubota 902 and what do you really get for
milage?

3.  Has anyone experimented with a latter model VW transaxle?

4.  Has anyone tried the 5 speed upgrade kit from
http://www.californiaperformance.com/vw_transaxles.htm This seems to me a very
good upgrade.

I would appreciate any comments thank you

Jim Oaksford

#7481

From: kendall bonner <merc2dogs@...>
Date: Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:59 am
Subject: RE: Does anyone in this group have a completed xR3?

merc2dogs

Not sure but you should be able to reverse the shift pattern by redesigning the linkage so it's 'normal' with transaxle backwards.

If you can't as in with the shifter mounted directly to the transaxle, it's really not difficult to get used to. I have a bombi snow cat, it's tracked vehicle, with a straight six in the back, and axle in front. It's a 4 speed, drivers seat is right on the transmission with the shifter between your knees, so pattern is upside down. I drive a manual truck, and only had a short period when I had to occasionally stop and think about a shift, got used to it very quickly. My buddy who sometimes uses it drives an automatic, and has never had any problems with it.

There used to be an off the shelf shift linkage for Volkswagon based mid-enging sand dragsters that kept the stock pattern.

> To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> From: jmoaksforfd@...
> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 18:10:23 +0000
> Subject: [xr3car] Does anyone in this group have a completed xR3?
>
> Plus I have few other questions:
> 1. With the transaxle now located opposite of the the original design, doesn't this make the shift pattern non intuitive?
>
> 2. Does anyone actually have a Kubota 902 and what do you really get for milage?
>
> 3. Has anyone experimented with a latter model VW transaxle?
>
> 4. Has anyone tried the 5 speed upgrade kit from http://www.californiaperformance.com/vw_transaxles.htm This seems to me a very good upgrade.
>
> I would appreciate any comments thank you
>
> Jim Oaksford
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xr3car/
>
> <*> Your email settings:
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>
> <*> To change settings online go to:
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>

#7482

From: N7MOG <n7mog@...>
Date: Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:22 am
Subject: Re: Does anyone in this group have a completed xR3?

n7mog

1. Not a real concern, the engine sits relative to the transaxle as it did in the VW. Look at some of the build pictures, or buy the plans. Suppositions are being made that even I had until I looked at the available information, do the research.

2. As a cross check, look @ MAX on the Mother Earth News. Same basic engine.

Bill
N7MOG

On 2/24/2012 7:59 PM, kendall bonner wrote:

Not sure but you should be able to reverse the shift pattern by redesigning the linkage so it's 'normal' with transaxle backwards.

If you can't as in with the shifter mounted directly to the transaxle, it's really not difficult to get used to. I have a bombi snow cat, it's tracked vehicle, with a straight six in the back, and axle in front. It's a 4 speed, drivers seat is right on the transmission with the shifter between your knees, so pattern is upside down. I drive a manual truck, and only had a short period when I had to occasionally stop and think about a shift, got used to it very quickly. My buddy who sometimes uses it drives an automatic, and has never had any problems with it.

There used to be an off the shelf shift linkage for Volkswagon based mid-enging sand dragsters that kept the stock pattern.

> To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> From: jmoaksforfd@...
> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 18:10:23 +0000
> Subject: [xr3car] Does anyone in this group have a completed xR3?
>
> Plus I have few other questions:
> 1. With the transaxle now located opposite of the the original design, doesn't this make the shift pattern non intuitive?
>
> 2. Does anyone actually have a Kubota 902 and what do you really get for milage?
>
> 3. Has anyone experimented with a latter model VW transaxle?
>
> 4. Has anyone tried the 5 speed upgrade kit from http://www.californiaperformance.com/vw_transaxles.htm This seems to me a very good upgrade.
>
> I would appreciate any comments thank you
>
> Jim Oaksford
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xr3car/
>
> <*> Your email settings:
> Individual Email | Traditional
>
> <*> To change settings online go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xr3car/join
> (Yahoo! ID required)
>
> <*> To change settings via email:
> xr3car-digest@yahoogroups.com
> xr3car-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> xr3car-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

#7483

From: pat riepl <rieplrocket@...>
Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:32 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Off Topic

rieplrocket

electric cars in a nascar race would definitly help in battery and electric motor developement.

From: Bob Scoville <scovilleb@...>
To: "xr3car@yahoogroups.com" <xr3car@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 9:39 AM
Subject: RE: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic

The reason I say that is that the Budweiser Shootout this week had a halftime break. I thought it was an interesting concept. There would be enough time to swap out the batteries.

From: xr3car@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xr3car@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Scoville
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 8:35 AM
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic

Are there any electric cars in it yet?

Bob Scoville
Drafter
Rocky Mountain Prestress
scovilleb@...
Direct 303-964-7053
Cell

This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. Rocky Mountain Prestress may, at its sole discretion, monitor, review, retain and/or disclose the content of all email communications.

From: xr3car@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xr3car@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pat riepl
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 8:29 AM
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic

So how about the indy 500 this weekend! That is where the metal meets the meat.right?

From: "talon@..." <talon@...>
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic

As an exercise, the math is fun, but something not mentioned is the fact that the resulting number is to crack all permutations. If a brute force cracker is employed, it will stop when the crack is complete, so the average time to crack is exactly half of the calculated time to crack every combination. Still a long time though.

If your calculated time-to-crack is, say, a year, divide that in half and you get 6 months. Simply change your password every quarter and you will be fairly safe. Quite frankly, using the same password for more than one account is a lot bigger issue. If one is cracked, they all are at risk, and people tend to keep the same passwords longer on social media sites, or forget they have signed up and never change the password.

A good source of pretty good, easily remembered passwords are automotive vanity plates.

Just my two cents worth. . .

TALON

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-----Original message-----

From: DavidH <dsh1001@...>
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Feb 22, 2012 20:44:05 GMT+00:00
Subject: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic

Entertaining and informative I'd say. It gives me something to do when I am not out campaigning for the communist party. (because they are so much better and smarter than Democrats or Republicans) ;-)

I agree that it may be just as hard to "guess" a password of several words in a row but computers are not guessing.

I was basing my math on the 62 characters you mentioned and 16 "friendly" punctuation characters. So called because they will work with almost any password system. Some of the punctuation marks are not allowed on some sites for use in passwords. I forget which are the "friendly" ones but i think it is all of the ones above the numbers plus the tilde and all the brackets. (I did say 76 characters but I should have said 78)

They methodically go through every possible combination of whatever characters they are set to use. words are characters and no matter what words you use or how many, that combination of characters will come up in a search of all possible combinations.

ilovecookies will pop up in that search and so will ilovespoons, spoonsloveme, catseatmice and every other combination of words you can possibly string together. All things being equal, it would be just as hard to crack a password with words in them as it would be to crack a password of similar length that is random but all lower case.

Unfortunately, all things are not equal in this case. Most people have a vocabulary of about 10,000 words but only use about 1000 of them or less on a regular basis.This makes it easy to crack a code like ilovecookies because they are all common words.

If you throw in words like desideratum or eleemosynary then you are almost on par with a password of random letters.

BTW my dictionary has 300,000 words (or so it says) but I have been told that I have a big dic tionary. http://www.oed.com/ claims to have over 600,000 words which just goes to show that no matter how big you think your dic tionary is, someone, somewhere has a bigger one.

--- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, Khouri Giordano <khourig@...> wrote:
>
> This is getting further off topic, but I haven't seen any complaints yet, so maybe it's entertaining anyway.
>
> Either your math is wrong or I'm not understanding you correctly.
>
> A random password uses a set of characters: 26 lower case, 26 upper case, 10 digits and a few symbols. Ignoring the symbols and just using letters and numbers, there are 26+26+10 = 62 possibilities for each character. Most of the time, there is an eight character minimum length for passwords. That would be 62^8 = 2.18 x 10^14 (~47 bits) possibilities. If the upper limit is 16 characters, then it's 62^8 + 62^9 + 62^10 .. + 62^16 =Â 4.84 x 10^28 (~95 bits) possibilities.
>
> This pageÂ mentions there are about 200,000 English words, but let's just use 1,000Â = 10^3Â (~10 bits) common ones as an example. Four random words would give 10^12 (~40 bits) possibilities. Assuming this fits into the above mentioned 16 character limit, a brute force attack that does not know you chose four English words in lower case, still would have 4.84 x 10^28Â (~95 bits)Â combinations to consider. In this view, both "password" and "1Wz522GdCKd715Vw" are equally valid.
>
> With all of that out of the way, attackers have a list of things they try first: "password", hobbies and common names. If they know something about you, they can try dates relevant to your life. If they know that you chose four random words in all lower case from a list of 1,000 specific words, then they've reduced their combination space to 10^12Â (~40 bits), which, admittedly is less than eight random characters withÂ 62^8 = 2.18 x 10^14 (~47 bits) possibilities.
>
> My point was that four words will be more memorable to you and just as hard to guess. Security is a chain which is only as strong as its weakest link. The first historic cracker that I knowÂ used social engineering to get into systems.Â
>
>
>
> >________________________________
> > From: DavidH <dsh1001@...>
> >To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> >Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 10:02 PM
> >Subject: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic
> >
> >
> >Â
> ><<"= quoted text">>
> ><<" In short, use the password that fits what you're trying to protect.">>
> >
> >I agree completely. a lot of applications don't need super strong passwords. But if you don't want your friends getting spammed because they are in your address book and your account gets hacked, then at least follow a couple of simple guidelines. Make your password at least 8 characters long and throw a couple of capital letters in there.
> >
> ><<"Being able to try 30,000 passwords in an hour could in many cases be dropped to 5 tries every few hours.">>
> >
> >This is sort of right except the pros use hijacked computers so they have more like 30,000 computers trying 30,000 passwords every few minutes for each email server they are trying to hack.
> >
> ><<"Having a larger selection of characters to choose from may make it take longer, but extending the length of the password to 4 words would do the same.">>
> >
> >I think that may be a bit of an understaement. My scenario was based on the two different types of passwords described being of equal length.
> >
> >A password with upper/lowercase, numbers and only the 16 "friendly"38 punctuation marks has a possibility of 76 characters for each space used in the password. ilovecookies only has 3.67034449 Ã 10^15 possibilities wheres an alphanumeric as described of equal length would have 6.50190515 Ã 10^20 possibilities.
> >
> >That means that even though ilovecookies seems to have a pretty big number attached to it, an alphanumeric/symbol password of that same 11 character length would have 177,147 TIMES the 3.67034449 Ã 10^15 provided by the eleven digit password ilovecookies. "Making it take longer" is the whole point of creating a unique password. A fully random password as described would not make it take just a little longer to crack the fully random password, it would take a Loooot longer. Even if they had an unrealistically super fast setup that could crack ilovecookies in an hour, it would take them (177 147 / 24) / 365.25 = 20.2084189 years to crack the alphanumeric.
> >
> >If it is something important to be password protected, I would rather it take them 20 years rather than an hour.
> >
> >As a final thought about beefing up your password, Consider this; ilovecookies or any password with all lowercase letters can be improved significantly by adding a single capitol letter. Just change it to ilovEcookies and your password is almost three times more secure by adding 7.05835481 Ã 10^15 more unique combinations for a total of 1.07286993 Ã 10^16 possible combinations.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

#7484

From: pat riepl <rieplrocket@...>
Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:36 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Off Topic

rieplrocket

my bad.....I think I had Danica on my mind...

From: Tony Cortez <tonico222@...>
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic

Indy 500???? It's the Daytona 500!!

----- Original Message -----

From: pat riepl

To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 7:29 AM

Subject: Re: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic

So how about the indy 500 this weekend! That is where the metal meets the meat.right?

From: "talon@..." <talon@...>
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic

As an exercise, the math is fun, but something not mentioned is the fact that the resulting number is to crack all permutations. If a brute force cracker is employed, it will stop when the crack is complete, so the average time to crack is exactly half of the calculated time to crack every combination. Still a long time though.

If your calculated time-to-crack is, say, a year, divide that in half and you get 6 months. Simply change your password every quarter and you will be fairly safe. Quite frankly, using the same password for more than one account is a lot bigger issue. If one is cracked, they all are at risk, and people tend to keep the same passwords longer on social media sites, or forget they have signed up and never change the password.

A good source of pretty good, easily remembered passwords are automotive vanity plates.

Just my two cents worth. . .

TALON

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-----Original message-----

From: DavidH <dsh1001@...>
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Feb 22, 2012 20:44:05 GMT+00:00
Subject: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic

Entertaining and informative I'd say. It gives me something to do when I am not out campaigning for the communist party. (because they are so much better and smarter than Democrats or Republicans) ;-)

I agree that it may be just as hard to "guess" a password of several words in a row but computers are not guessing.

I was basing my math on the 62 characters you mentioned and 16 "friendly" punctuation characters. So called because they will work with almost any password system. Some of the punctuation marks are not allowed on some sites for use in passwords. I forget which are the "friendly" ones but i think it is all of the ones above the numbers plus the tilde and all the brackets. (I did say 76 characters but I should have said 78)

They methodically go through every possible combination of whatever characters they are set to use. words are characters and no matter what words you use or how many, that combination of characters will come up in a search of all possible combinations.

ilovecookies will pop up in that search and so will ilovespoons, spoonsloveme, catseatmice and every other combination of words you can possibly string together. All things being equal, it would be just as hard to crack a password with words in them as it would be to crack a password of similar length that is random but all lower case.

Unfortunately, all things are not equal in this case. Most people have a vocabulary of about 10,000 words but only use about 1000 of them or less on a regular basis.This makes it easy to crack a code like ilovecookies because they are all common words.

If you throw in words like desideratum or eleemosynary then you are almost on par with a password of random letters.

BTW my dictionary has 300,000 words (or so it says) but I have been told that I have a big dic tionary. http://www.oed.com/ claims to have over 600,000 words which just goes to show that no matter how big you think your dic tionary is, someone, somewhere has a bigger one.

--- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, Khouri Giordano <khourig@...> wrote:
>
> This is getting further off topic, but I haven't seen any complaints yet, so maybe it's entertaining anyway.
>
> Either your math is wrong or I'm not understanding you correctly.
>
> A random password uses a set of characters: 26 lower case, 26 upper case, 10 digits and a few symbols. Ignoring the symbols and just using letters and numbers, there are 26+26+10 = 62 possibilities for each character. Most of the time, there is an eight character minimum length for passwords. That would be 62^8 = 2.18 x 10^14 (~47 bits) possibilities. If the upper limit is 16 characters, then it's 62^8 + 62^9 + 62^10 .. + 62^16 =Â 4.84 x 10^28 (~95 bits) possibilities.
>
> This pageÂ mentions there are about 200,000 English words, but let's just use 1,000Â = 10^3Â (~10 bits) common ones as an example. Four random words would give 10^12 (~40 bits) possibilities. Assuming this fits into the above mentioned 16 character limit, a brute force attack that does not know you chose four English words in lower case, still would have 4.84 x 10^28Â (~95 bits)Â combinations to consider. In this view, both "password" and "1Wz522GdCKd715Vw" are equally valid.
>
> With all of that out of the way, attackers have a list of things they try first: "password", hobbies and common names. If they know something about you, they can try dates relevant to your life. If they know that you chose four random words in all lower case from a list of 1,000 specific words, then they've reduced their combination space to 10^12Â (~40 bits), which, admittedly is less than eight random characters withÂ 62^8 = 2.18 x 10^14 (~47 bits) possibilities.
>
> My point was that four words will be more memorable to you and just as hard to guess. Security is a chain which is only as strong as its weakest link. The first historic cracker that I knowÂ used social engineering to get into systems.Â
>
>
>
> >________________________________
> > From: DavidH <dsh1001@...>
> >To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> >Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 10:02 PM
> >Subject: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic
> >
> >
> >Â
> ><<"= quoted text">>
> ><<" In short, use the password that fits what you're trying to protect.">>
> >
> >I agree completely. a lot of applications don't need super strong passwords. But if you don't want your friends getting spammed because they are in your address book and your account gets hacked, then at least follow a couple of simple guidelines. Make your password at least 8 characters long and throw a couple of capital letters in there.
> >
> ><<"Being able to try 30,000 passwords in an hour could in many cases be dropped to 5 tries every few hours.">>
> >
> >This is sort of right except the pros use hijacked computers so they have more like 30,000 computers trying 30,000 passwords every few minutes for each email server they are trying to hack.
> >
> ><<"Having a larger selection of characters to choose from may make it take longer, but extending the length of the password to 4 words would do the same.">>
> >
> >I think that may be a bit of an understaement. My scenario was based on the two different types of passwords described being of equal length.
> >
> >A password with upper/lowercase, numbers and only the 16 "friendly"38 punctuation marks has a possibility of 76 characters for each space used in the password. ilovecookies only has 3.67034449 Ã 10^15 possibilities wheres an alphanumeric as described of equal length would have 6.50190515 Ã 10^20 possibilities.
> >
> >That means that even though ilovecookies seems to have a pretty big number attached to it, an alphanumeric/symbol password of that same 11 character length would have 177,147 TIMES the 3.67034449 Ã 10^15 provided by the eleven digit password ilovecookies. "Making it take longer" is the whole point of creating a unique password. A fully random password as described would not make it take just a little longer to crack the fully random password, it would take a Loooot longer. Even if they had an unrealistically super fast setup that could crack ilovecookies in an hour, it would take them (177 147 / 24) / 365.25 = 20.2084189 years to crack the alphanumeric.
> >
> >If it is something important to be password protected, I would rather it take them 20 years rather than an hour.
> >
> >As a final thought about beefing up your password, Consider this; ilovecookies or any password with all lowercase letters can be improved significantly by adding a single capitol letter. Just change it to ilovEcookies and your password is almost three times more secure by adding 7.05835481 Ã 10^15 more unique combinations for a total of 1.07286993 Ã 10^16 possible combinations.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

#7485

From: Hospodkas3 <hospodkas3@...>
Date: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:26 am
Subject: Re: Re: Off Topic

hospodkas3

Very good point, Pat! There are many talented folks that make a living in that sport/industry.

John H. in Omaha

From: pat riepl <rieplrocket@...>
To: "xr3car@yahoogroups.com" <xr3car@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic

electric cars in a nascar race would definitly help in battery and electric motor developement.

From: Bob Scoville <scovilleb@...>
To: "xr3car@yahoogroups.com" <xr3car@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 9:39 AM
Subject: RE: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic

The reason I say that is that the Budweiser Shootout this week had a halftime break. I thought it was an interesting concept. There would be enough time to swap out the batteries.

Are there any electric cars in it yet?

Bob Scoville
Drafter
Rocky Mountain Prestress
scovilleb@...
Direct 303-964-7053
Cell

So how about the indy 500 this weekend! That is where the metal meets the meat.right?

From: "talon@..." <talon@...>
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic

-----Original message-----

From: DavidH <dsh1001@...>
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Feb 22, 2012 20:44:05 GMT+00:00
Subject: [xr3car] Re: Off Topic

#7486

From: comftntrtl@...
Date: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:02 pm
Subject: Non Intuitive Shifting

comftntrtl

Jim Oaksford asked:

> With the transaxle now located opposite of the the original design, doesn't
> this make the shift pattern non intuitive?

I have 3 manually shifted cars that have completely different shift patterns.
One has a 5-speed trans with a standard "H" pattern. 1st gear is to the left &
forward, 5th is to the far right & forward. Reverse is to the left of 1st, with
a downward push on the lever required so you don't go forward when you want to
back up...

The 2nd car has an in-line 5-speed mc gearbox. 1st is forward, with the rest of
the gears straight back. The only thing to remember with that is to return the
lever to its mid position between up or down shifts, just as you do when
shifting a bike with your foot... When I first started driving it, I'd sometimes
forget that or try to go for 3rd gear by shifting in a "H" pattern... That
resulted in me staying in whatever gear I thought I'd just left!  Within a week,
I stopped doing that.

I got the 3rd car a month ago (as a Birthday Present to myself). It is a Citroen
2CV... Its unique shift pattern is more-or-less just straight forward or back,
with a sideways wrist-twist of the lever to the left or right (while passing
thru neutral) to get 1st, reverse or 4th gear. Thank God it doesn't have a 5th
gear, because if it did, it would probably be in the glovebox!  [French car
designers have a strange sense of humor.]

I drive all 3 cars interchangeably (sometimes all 3 on the same day) w/o
shifting problems. That's because the Brains we humans are born with is a
marvelous instrument, that takes care of incidental things like car shifting
patterns... In whatever car I'm about to drive, I put my hand on the lever &
tell myself (out loud, so I'll be sure to hear it), "This gearbox has the 'H'
pattern," or  "This gearbox shifts in-line," or "This gearbox is the really
weird French one."  :>)  With my Brain fully engaged, I have no problems
shifting any of them, no matter which one I'm driving at the time.

In other words, Jim, it's like being able to play a piano & a violin & a
guitar... They may be completely different instruments, but if you keep in mind
what you are playing at the time, your Brain will keep you hitting the right
notes! :>)

Warren B.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#7487

From: Bob Scoville <scovilleb@...>
Date: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:03 pm
Subject: RE: Does anyone in this group have a completed xR3?

scovillebob

I HAVE THE D 902. IT USES VERY LITTLE FUEL. I HAVE NO ODOMETER YET.
Riley's shifter design has the shift pattern the same as the vw beetle without
the reverse lockout. I think a reverse lockout could be added with a little
work.



Bob Scoville
Drafter
Rocky Mountain Prestress
scovilleb@...
Direct 303-964-7053
Cell

This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged
and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is
addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than
the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please
notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. Rocky
Mountain Prestress may, at its sole discretion, monitor, review, retain and/or
disclose the content of all email communications.
-----Original Message-----
From: xr3car@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xr3car@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
oaksfordj
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 11:10 AM
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [xr3car] Does anyone in this group have a completed xR3?

Plus I have  few other questions:
1.  With the transaxle now  located opposite of the the original design, doesn't
this make the shift pattern non intuitive?

2.  Does anyone actually have a Kubota 902 and what do you really get for
milage?

3.  Has anyone experimented with a latter model VW transaxle?

4.  Has anyone tried the 5 speed upgrade kit from
http://www.californiaperformance.com/vw_transaxles.htm This seems to me a very
good upgrade.

I would appreciate any comments thank you

Jim Oaksford





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

#7488

From: "Lee Woody" <lmwoody@...>
Date: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:22 pm
Subject: RE: Plans

leewoody2002

Are these plans still available?

Lee

From: xr3car@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xr3car@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of reliac1
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 3:26 AM
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [xr3car] Plans

Hello everyone, not to be a bother. But I still have a set of plans on disk for sale. I would like to get 50$ and ill take care of the shipping. Thanks! -Eric

#7489

From: comftntrtl@...
Date: Thu Mar 1, 2012 11:30 pm
Subject: Re: Plans

comftntrtl

Sure they are, Woody...
Just move your eyes up to the title page & do what it says that's highlighted in
blue...

"Click here to go to the R.Q. Riley site and order your plans now!"

Warren

--- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Woody" <lmwoody@...> wrote:
>
> Are these plans still available?
>
> Lee
>
>
>
> From: xr3car@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xr3car@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> reliac1
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 3:26 AM
> To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [xr3car] Plans
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello everyone, not to be a bother. But I still have a set of plans on disk
> for sale. I would like to get 50$ and ill take care of the shipping. Thanks!
> -Eric
>

#7490

From: Woody <hwoody2wood@...>
Date: Thu Mar 1, 2012 11:34 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Plans

hwoody2wood

huh????

Woody

Wizard, at large

"I'm in shape, round is a shape!"

--- On Thu, 3/1/12, comftntrtl@... <comftntrtl@...> wrote:

From: comftntrtl@... <comftntrtl@...>
Subject: [xr3car] Re: Plans
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, March 1, 2012, 11:30 PM

Sure they are, Woody...
Just move your eyes up to the title page & do what it says that's highlighted in blue...

"Click here to go to the R.Q. Riley site and order your plans now!"

Warren

--- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Woody" <lmwoody@...> wrote:
>
> Are these plans still available?
>
> Lee
>
>
>
> From: xr3car@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xr3car@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> reliac1
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 3:26 AM
> To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [xr3car] Plans
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello everyone, not to be a bother. But I still have a set of plans on disk
> for sale. I would like to get 50$ and ill take care of the shipping. Thanks!
> -Eric
>

#7491

From: "Joey" <lgarza@...>
Date: Fri Mar 2, 2012 5:06 pm
Subject: Re: Plans

lj1garza

I think he was reponding to Lee's question about Eric's plans on on disc for
$50.

Joey

--- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, Woody <hwoody2wood@...> wrote:
>
> huh????
>
>
> Woody
> Wizard, at large
> "I'm in shape, round is a shape!"
>
>
>
>  
>
> --- On Thu, 3/1/12, comftntrtl@... <comftntrtl@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: comftntrtl@... <comftntrtl@...>
> Subject: [xr3car] Re: Plans
> To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, March 1, 2012, 11:30 PM
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Sure they are, Woody...
> Just move your eyes up to the title page & do what it says that's highlighted
in blue...
>
> "Click here to go to the R.Q. Riley site and order your plans now!"
>
> Warren
>
> --- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Woody" <lmwoody@> wrote:
> >
> > Are these plans still available?
> >
> > Lee
> >
> >
> >
> > From: xr3car@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xr3car@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > reliac1
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 3:26 AM
> > To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [xr3car] Plans
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello everyone, not to be a bother. But I still have a set of plans on disk
> > for sale. I would like to get 50$ and ill take care of the shipping. Thanks!
> > -Eric
> >
>

#7492

From: Woody <hwoody2wood@...>
Date: Fri Mar 2, 2012 5:20 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Plans

hwoody2wood

yeah, just addressed to the wrong guy

Woody

Wizard, at large

"I'm in shape, round is a shape!"

--- On Fri, 3/2/12, Joey <lgarza@...> wrote:

From: Joey <lgarza@...>
Subject: [xr3car] Re: Plans
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, March 2, 2012, 5:06 PM

I think he was reponding to Lee's question about Eric's plans on on disc for $50.

Joey

--- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, Woody <hwoody2wood@...> wrote:
>
> huh????
>
>
> Woody
> Wizard, at large
> "I'm in shape, round is a shape!"
>
>
>
> Â
>
> --- On Thu, 3/1/12, comftntrtl@... <comftntrtl@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: comftntrtl@... <comftntrtl@...>
> Subject: [xr3car] Re: Plans
> To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, March 1, 2012, 11:30 PM
>
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
> Sure they are, Woody...
> Just move your eyes up to the title page & do what it says that's highlighted in blue...
>
> "Click here to go to the R.Q. Riley site and order your plans now!"
>
> Warren
>
> --- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Woody" <lmwoody@> wrote:
> >
> > Are these plans still available?
> >
> > Lee
> >
> >
> >
> > From: xr3car@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xr3car@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > reliac1
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 3:26 AM
> > To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [xr3car] Plans
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello everyone, not to be a bother. But I still have a set of plans on disk
> > for sale. I would like to get 50$ and ill take care of the shipping. Thanks!
> > -Eric
> >
>

#7493

From: "DavidH" <dsh1001@...>
Date: Fri Mar 2, 2012 6:44 pm
Subject: Re: Plans

dsh1001

Or go here: http://www.rqriley.com/xr3.htm

--- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, comftntrtl@... wrote:
>
> Sure they are, Woody...
> Just move your eyes up to the title page & do what it says that's highlighted
in blue...
>
> "Click here to go to the R.Q. Riley site and order your plans now!"
>
> Warren
>
> --- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Woody" <lmwoody@> wrote:
> >
> > Are these plans still available?
> >
> > Lee
> >
> >
> >
> > From: xr3car@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xr3car@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > reliac1
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 3:26 AM
> > To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [xr3car] Plans
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello everyone, not to be a bother. But I still have a set of plans on disk
> > for sale. I would like to get 50$ and ill take care of the shipping. Thanks!
> > -Eric
> >
>

#7494

From: Woody <hwoody2wood@...>
Date: Fri Mar 2, 2012 7:14 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Plans

hwoody2wood

Warren

it wasnt me

Woody

Wizard, at large

"I'm in shape, round is a shape!"

--- On Fri, 3/2/12, DavidH <dsh1001@...> wrote:

From: DavidH <dsh1001@...>
Subject: [xr3car] Re: Plans
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, March 2, 2012, 6:44 PM

Or go here: http://www.rqriley.com/xr3.htm

--- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, comftntrtl@... wrote:
>
> Sure they are, Woody...
> Just move your eyes up to the title page & do what it says that's highlighted in blue...
>
> "Click here to go to the R.Q. Riley site and order your plans now!"
>
> Warren
>
> --- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Woody" <lmwoody@> wrote:
> >
> > Are these plans still available?
> >
> > Lee
> >
> >
> >
> > From: xr3car@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xr3car@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > reliac1
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 3:26 AM
> > To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [xr3car] Plans
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello everyone, not to be a bother. But I still have a set of plans on disk
> > for sale. I would like to get 50$ and ill take care of the shipping. Thanks!
> > -Eric
> >
>

#7496

From: comftntrtl@...
Date: Fri Mar 2, 2012 8:27 pm
Subject: Re: Plans

comftntrtl

Woody,

You're not the only "Woody" on thus Group, ya know...

Lee Woody asked the question about if plans were still available. I merely hit
"Reply" & answered it...

Warren

--- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, Woody <hwoody2wood@...> wrote:
>
> yeah, just addressed to the wrong guy
>
>
> Woody
> Wizard, at large
> "I'm in shape, round is a shape!"
>
>
>
>  
>
> --- On Fri, 3/2/12, Joey <lgarza@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Joey <lgarza@...>
> Subject: [xr3car] Re: Plans
> To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, March 2, 2012, 5:06 PM
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> I think he was reponding to Lee's question about Eric's plans on on disc for
$50.
>
> Joey
>
> --- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, Woody <hwoody2wood@> wrote:
> >
> > huh????
> >
> >
> > Woody
> > Wizard, at large
> > "I'm in shape, round is a shape!"
> >
> >
> >
> > Â 
> >
> > --- On Thu, 3/1/12, comftntrtl@ <comftntrtl@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: comftntrtl@ <comftntrtl@>
> > Subject: [xr3car] Re: Plans
> > To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Thursday, March 1, 2012, 11:30 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > Â 
> >
> >
> >
> > Sure they are, Woody...
> > Just move your eyes up to the title page & do what it says that's
highlighted in blue...
> >
> > "Click here to go to the R.Q. Riley site and order your plans now!"
> >
> > Warren
> >
> > --- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Woody" <lmwoody@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Are these plans still available?
> > >
> > > Lee
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: xr3car@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xr3car@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > > reliac1
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 3:26 AM
> > > To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [xr3car] Plans
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello everyone, not to be a bother. But I still have a set of plans on
disk
> > > for sale. I would like to get 50$ and ill take care of the shipping.
Thanks!
> > > -Eric
> > >
> >
>

#7497

From: Woody <hwoody2wood@...>
Date: Fri Mar 2, 2012 9:13 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Plans

hwoody2wood

Ahhhh ok.

Woody "Im in shape, round is a shape!"

-------- Original message --------
Subject: [xr3car] Re: Plans
From: comftntrtl@...
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
CC:

Woody,

You're not the only "Woody" on thus Group, ya know...

Lee Woody asked the question about if plans were still available. I merely hit "Reply" & answered it...

Warren

--- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, Woody <hwoody2wood@...> wrote:
>
> yeah, just addressed to the wrong guy
>
>
> Woody
> Wizard, at large
> "I'm in shape, round is a shape!"
>
>
>
> Â
>
> --- On Fri, 3/2/12, Joey <lgarza@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Joey <lgarza@...>
> Subject: [xr3car] Re: Plans
> To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, March 2, 2012, 5:06 PM
>
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
> I think he was reponding to Lee's question about Eric's plans on on disc for $50.
>
> Joey
>
> --- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, Woody <hwoody2wood@> wrote:
> >
> > huh????
> >
> >
> > Woody
> > Wizard, at large
> > "I'm in shape, round is a shape!"
> >
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > --- On Thu, 3/1/12, comftntrtl@ <comftntrtl@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: comftntrtl@ <comftntrtl@>
> > Subject: [xr3car] Re: Plans
> > To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Thursday, March 1, 2012, 11:30 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> >
> >
> > Sure they are, Woody...
> > Just move your eyes up to the title page & do what it says that's highlighted in blue...
> >
> > "Click here to go to the R.Q. Riley site and order your plans now!"
> >
> > Warren
> >
> > --- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Woody" <lmwoody@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Are these plans still available?
> > >
> > > Lee
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: xr3car@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xr3car@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > > reliac1
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 3:26 AM
> > > To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [xr3car] Plans
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello everyone, not to be a bother. But I still have a set of plans on disk
> > > for sale. I would like to get 50$ and ill take care of the shipping. Thanks!
> > > -Eric
> > >
> >
>

#7498

From: "Lee Woody" <lmwoody@...>
Date: Fri Mar 2, 2012 10:13 pm
Subject: RE: Re: Plans

leewoody2002

So, now that we have this all figured out…are Eric’s plans still for sale?

Lee

AKA “The other Woody”

From: xr3car@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xr3car@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Woody
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 1:14 PM
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [xr3car] Re: Plans

Ahhhh ok.

Woody "Im in shape, round is a shape!"

-------- Original message --------
Subject: [xr3car] Re: Plans
From: comftntrtl@...
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
CC:

#7499

From: "artificer_shop" <meboettc@...>
Date: Fri Mar 2, 2012 10:47 pm
Subject: Re: Plans

artificer_shop

Yahoo Groups says that the emails to Eric are bouncing.  Don't know if he's
changed email accounts, if its hacked again, or just not checking it.  Member
since 2009, so probably not spam... hopefully.  A couple of posts in 2009, then
spam in 2011, and plans for sale in 2012.  Your guess is as good as mine.

Michael


--- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Woody" <lmwoody@...> wrote:
>
> So, now that we have this all figured out…are Eric’s plans still for sale?
>
> Lee
>
> AKA  “The other Woody”
>
>
>
>
>
> From: xr3car@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xr3car@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Woody
> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 1:14 PM
> To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [xr3car] Re: Plans
>
>
>
>
>
> Ahhhh ok.
>
>
> Woody "Im in shape, round is a shape!"
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> Subject: [xr3car] Re: Plans
> From: comftntrtl@...
> To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> CC:
>
>
>
>
> Woody,
>
> You're not the only "Woody" on thus Group, ya know...
>
> Lee Woody asked the question about if plans were still available. I merely hit
"Reply" & answered it...
>
> Warren
>
> --- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com <mailto:xr3car%40yahoogroups.com> , Woody
<hwoody2wood@> wrote:
> >
> > yeah, just addressed to the wrong guy
> >
> >
> > Woody
> > Wizard, at large
> > "I'm in shape, round is a shape!"
> >
> >
> >
> > Â
> >
> > --- On Fri, 3/2/12, Joey <lgarza@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Joey <lgarza@>
> > Subject: [xr3car] Re: Plans
> > To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com <mailto:xr3car%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Friday, March 2, 2012, 5:06 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > Â
> >
> >
> >
> > I think he was reponding to Lee's question about Eric's plans on on disc for
$50.
> >
> > Joey
> >
> > --- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com <mailto:xr3car%40yahoogroups.com> , Woody
<hwoody2wood@> wrote:
> > >
> > > huh????
> > >
> > >
> > > Woody
> > > Wizard, at large
> > > "I'm in shape, round is a shape!"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ã‚Â
> > >
> > > --- On Thu, 3/1/12, comftntrtl@ <comftntrtl@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: comftntrtl@ <comftntrtl@>
> > > Subject: [xr3car] Re: Plans
> > > To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com <mailto:xr3car%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Date: Thursday, March 1, 2012, 11:30 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ã‚Â
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sure they are, Woody...
> > > Just move your eyes up to the title page & do what it says that's
highlighted in blue...
> > >
> > > "Click here to go to the R.Q. Riley site and order your plans now!"
> > >
> > > Warren
> > >
> > > --- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com <mailto:xr3car%40yahoogroups.com> , "Lee
Woody" <lmwoody@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Are these plans still available?
> > > >
> > > > Lee
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: xr3car@yahoogroups.com <mailto:xr3car%40yahoogroups.com> 
[mailto:xr3car@yahoogroups.com <mailto:xr3car%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
> > > > reliac1
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 3:26 AM
> > > > To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com <mailto:xr3car%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Subject: [xr3car] Plans
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello everyone, not to be a bother. But I still have a set of plans on
disk
> > > > for sale. I would like to get 50$ and ill take care of the shipping.
Thanks!
> > > > -Eric
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

#7500

From: Woody <hwoody2wood@...>
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 12:29 am
Subject: RE: Re: Plans

hwoody2wood

lol.

Woody

Wizard, at large

"I'm in shape, round is a shape!"

--- On Fri, 3/2/12, Lee Woody <lmwoody@...> wrote:

From: Lee Woody <lmwoody@...>
Subject: RE: [xr3car] Re: Plans
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, March 2, 2012, 10:13 PM

So, now that we have this all figured out…are Eric’s plans still for sale?

Lee

AKA “The other Woody”

From: xr3car@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xr3car@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Woody
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 1:14 PM
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [xr3car] Re: Plans

Ahhhh ok.

Woody "Im in shape, round is a shape!"

-------- Original message --------
Subject: [xr3car] Re: Plans
From: comftntrtl@...
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
CC:

#7501

From: Tom Lee Mullins <tomleem@...>
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 1:59 am
Subject: Re: Re: Plans

tomleem7659

https://rqriley.hostcentric.com/cart/?p=27

TomLeeM

comftntrtl@... wrote:

Sure they are, Woody...
Just move your eyes up to the title page & do what it says that's highlighted in blue...

"Click here to go to the R.Q. Riley site and order your plans now!"

Warren

--- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Woody" <lmwoody@...> wrote:
>
> Are these plans still available?
>
> Lee
>
>
>
> From: xr3car@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xr3car@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> reliac1
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 3:26 AM
> To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [xr3car] Plans
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello everyone, not to be a bother. But I still have a set of plans on disk
> for sale. I would like to get 50$ and ill take care of the shipping. Thanks!
> -Eric
>

Tom Lee M * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * http://home.comcast.net/~tomleem http://www.google.com/profiles/bigwarpguy http://www.myspace.com/bigwarpguy http://www.facebook.com/bigwarpguy http://www.cafepress.com/GSS_NJ http://www.cafepress.com/BAN_DWI http://www.cafepress.com/BWG_Designs * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

#7502

From: Tom Lee Mullins <tomleem@...>
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 2:03 am
Subject: Re: Re: Plans

tomleem7659

https://rqriley.hostcentric.com/cart/?p=27

Hope this works.

TomLeeM

Joey wrote:

I think he was reponding to Lee's question about Eric's plans on on disc for $50.

Joey

--- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, Woody <hwoody2wood@...> wrote:
>
> huh????
>
>
> Woody
> Wizard, at large
> "I'm in shape, round is a shape!"
>
>
>
> Â
>
> --- On Thu, 3/1/12, comftntrtl@... <comftntrtl@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: comftntrtl@... <comftntrtl@...>
> Subject: [xr3car] Re: Plans
> To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, March 1, 2012, 11:30 PM
>
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
> Sure they are, Woody...
> Just move your eyes up to the title page & do what it says that's highlighted in blue...
>
> "Click here to go to the R.Q. Riley site and order your plans now!"
>
> Warren
>
> --- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Woody" <lmwoody@> wrote:
> >
> > Are these plans still available?
> >
> > Lee
> >
> >
> >
> > From: xr3car@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xr3car@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > reliac1
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 3:26 AM
> > To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [xr3car] Plans
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello everyone, not to be a bother. But I still have a set of plans on disk
> > for sale. I would like to get 50$ and ill take care of the shipping. Thanks!
> > -Eric
> >
>

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * http://home.comcast.net/~tomleem http://www.google.com/profiles/bigwarpguy http://www.myspace.com/bigwarpguy http://www.facebook.com/bigwarpguy http://www.cafepress.com/GSS_NJ http://www.cafepress.com/BAN_DWI http://www.cafepress.com/BWG_Designs * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

#7503

From: "Joey" <lgarza@...>
Date: Mon Mar 5, 2012 12:37 am
Subject: Back on Project

lj1garza

Hello All,

After working sporatically on the trike January and February, I'm back on the
project to eventual completion, hopefully, in time for this motorcycle riding
season. With everything (bodywork in particular) to be done, it might be the
tail-end of this years riding season.

You get to the part most visible to everyone, I tend to be extra critical of my
ability and slow way down. Bodywork is not forte, even though I did pretty good
on my R/C airplanes. This is a much larger scale.

I finally got tired of opening the shop door and seeing my personalized tag on
the back of the trike that I think I've got my second (maybe 3rd and 4th) wind.
I really don't want this to drag into a 4 year project, which is in late
September!

Build On!!!

Joey

P.S. Excuse any misspelling here and on the photo descriptions, can't find my
reading glasses. May have left them at the office,LOL

Reply | Messages in this Topic (10)

#7504

From: Bob Scoville <scovilleb@...>
Date: Wed Mar 7, 2012 5:07 pm
Subject: RE: Another EV 3-wheeler

scovillebob

I am puzzled by the same things you speak of below. It seems design and marketing are two different skill sets. I like the XR3 as Riley designed it because: it uses the electric power for performance. So when your batteries run down it will still get you to your destination, you only lose the performance aspect. It is enclosed. It can be all wheel drive. The diesel gives it the range that all electrics have not achieved as of yet. I think electrics will get there and it is probably in the battery technology that limits them. Once the batteries have either the vast storage capacity to weight ratio that is required or a fast charge capacity, this will change the whole scene. They are very close. Batteries are being charged faster but this reduces the total capacity. I am not including references here because these are general trends and things are still changing. But if you want a fully built enclosed EV, Myers Motors makes the NMG and is taking orders on the DUO. I believe the DUO could be modified slightly to pull a trailer with a generator on it for long trips.

And for purists you can get a solar power trailer.

Just some thoughts.

Bob Scoville

Bob Scoville
Drafter
Rocky Mountain Prestress
scovilleb@...
Direct 303-964-7053
Cell

From: xr3car@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xr3car@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kendall bonner
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 6:01 PM
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [xr3car] Another EV 3-wheeler

Looks interesting, not certain I like the visuals though, all that open lattice work is sure to provide plenty of wind resistance. And, at least in the mock up photos, they definately chose the wrong tire pattern for the rear. That style is designed to be balanced with a mirror image tire on the opposite side. Tried that on my old fat tire riump chop, hit water and the sipe pattern would slew it to the side. Went to a normal pattern tire and it handled puddles very well by going straight through.

Real video, just the desire to show off their editing skills have compromised it actually as far as gleaning real information from watching it.

Could never figure out why people do that. some do extremely good work on something then play around with the video so much that you can't always tell if you're looking at a motorcycle, a street lamp or a dog lifting it's leg.
And audio tracks selected?

The first body parts I ever made for a car I used cardboard to dummy it up, got it looking pretty nice, but it was way too angular for the rest of the car. Ended up redoing it in sheet foam built up like the strip built canoes. Bulkheads contoured and spaced to give the rough outline, then covered with 1 inch wide strips of 3/8 inch foam. Was able to get some pretty nice curves in it that blended very well with the rest of the car.

> To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> From: comftntrtl@...
> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 22:15:56 +0000
> Subject: [xr3car] Another EV 3-wheeler
>
> I know nothing about this except what's said about it on the below link:
>
> <http://www.evepic.com/torq-ev/item/29-the-evolution-of-the-epic-ev-torq.html>
>
> Scroll down to the bottom for what's said to be its "First Road Test." Looks to me like a computer simulation...
>
> I really like its light weight cardboard body! [Yeah, I know. It's just a body mock-up, but it's an interesting way to make one.]
>
> Enjoy,
> Warren
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xr3car/
>
> <*> Your email settings:
> Individual Email | Traditional
>
> <*> To change settings online go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xr3car/join
> (Yahoo! ID required)
>
> <*> To change settings via email:
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>
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>
> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

#7505

From: Aaron Davenport <aarontdav@...>
Date: Wed Mar 7, 2012 5:52 pm
Subject: Re: Another EV 3-wheeler

aaron.davenport

Does Meyers Motors actually make/sell the Duo? Most of the news I've been able to find says its production was delayed, but it would "start delivering in April 2011". We're well past that now, are they real?

�

Aaron...

On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Bob Scoville <scovilleb@...> wrote:

I am puzzled by the same things you speak of below. It seems design and marketing are two different skill sets. I like the XR3 as Riley designed it because: it uses the electric power for performance. So when your batteries run down it will still get you to your destination, you only lose the performance aspect. It is enclosed. It can be all wheel drive. The diesel gives it the range that all electrics have not achieved as of yet. I think electrics will get there and it is probably in the battery technology that limits them. Once the batteries have either the vast storage capacity to weight ratio that is required or a fast charge capacity, this will change the whole scene. They are very close. Batteries are being charged faster but this reduces the total capacity. I am not including references here because these are general trends and things are still changing. But if you want a fully built enclosed EV, �Myers Motors makes the NMG and is taking orders on the DUO. I believe the DUO could be modified slightly to pull a trailer with a generator on it for long trips.

And for purists you can get a solar power trailer.

Just some thoughts.

Bob Scoville

�

Bob Scoville
Drafter
Rocky Mountain Prestress
scovilleb@...
Direct 303-964-7053
Cell

This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies.�Rocky Mountain Prestress�may, at its sole discretion, monitor, review, retain and/or disclose the content of all email communications.

From: xr3car@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xr3car@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kendall bonner
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 6:01 PM
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [xr3car] Another EV 3-wheeler

�

�Looks interesting, not certain I like the visuals though, all that open lattice work is sure to�provide plenty of wind resistance. And, at least in the mock up photos, they definately chose the wrong tire pattern for the rear. That style is designed to be balanced with a mirror image tire on the opposite side. Tried that on my old fat tire riump chop, hit water and the sipe pattern would slew it to the side. Went to a normal pattern tire and it handled�puddles very well by going straight through.
�
�
Real video, just the desire to show off their editing skills have�compromised it actually as far as gleaning real information from watching�it.
�
�Could never figure out why people do that. some do extremely good work on something then play around with the video�so much that you can't always�tell if you're looking at a motorcycle, a street lamp or a dog lifting it's leg.
��And audio tracks selected?�
�
� The first body parts I ever made�for a car�I used cardboard to dummy it up,�got it looking pretty nice, but it was way too angular for the rest of the car. Ended up redoing it in sheet foam built up like the strip built canoes. Bulkheads contoured�and spaced to give the rough outline, then covered with 1 inch wide strips of�3/8 inch foam. Was able to get some pretty nice curves in it that blended very well with the rest of the car.�
�
�
�

> To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> From: comftntrtl@...
> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 22:15:56 +0000
> Subject: [xr3car] Another EV 3-wheeler
>
> I know nothing about this except what's said about it on the below link:
>
> <http://www.evepic.com/torq-ev/item/29-the-evolution-of-the-epic-ev-torq.html>
>
> Scroll down to the bottom for what's said to be its "First Road Test." Looks to me like a computer simulation...
>
> I really like its light weight cardboard body! [Yeah, I know. It's just a body mock-up, but it's an interesting way to make one.]
>
> Enjoy,
> Warren
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
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--

Aaron...

#7506

From: Rob Stout <solarrs@...>
Date: Wed Mar 7, 2012 5:57 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Another EV 3-wheeler

stoutrob...

I'm sorry about the Aptera (wingless flight) too. �I had a deposit on one for a long time and still think it would fit my needs the best.

On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Cam Griffin <didjeffects@...> wrote:

�

I agree that the demise of Aptera came w/ the big-auto exec & the decision to redesign for front-engine before delivering on existing orders, but Aptera was a long story and they'd managed to burn thru plenty of capital on there own. �I blame the MBA mentality pushed at MIT, so much money wasted on the structure and marketing of a big company when they could have built a strong bespoke or kit business first. �

On Jan 25, 2012, at 10:21 AM, "ratliffgrp" <evcarguy@...> wrote:

�

All,

I was reading the posts today and thought I would chime in about this three wheeler. This particular 3 wheeler is being developed by Epic. This company is headed by a guy named Chris Anthony. If that doesn't ring a bell, he and a guy by the name of Steve Fambro were the two founding members of Aptera Motors. They developed the uniquely shaped (AND VERY SLIPPERY) three wheeled Aptera automobile that competed recently in the Automotive X-Prize competition. The Aptera had one of the lowest, if not the lowest, drag coefficients of any car ever developed.

Recently, Aptera motors was driven into the dirt by the newly elected CEO who was a former Big 3 Automotive executive. However, when the company was being run by Steve and Chris, they were truly setting the standards for efficiency and innovation. Since the downfall of Aptera, Steve and Chris have moved on to separate endeavors. Chris, in particular, has founded Epic and has developed not only the Roadster, but a purely electric, high-end wake-board boat, a line of large scale lithium battery modules and...and EPIC is the company working with the new Delorean Motor Company on a rework of the body to make it out of lighter and stronger materials.

I wouldn't dismiss these guys as to not be taken seriously. They have accomplished a lot in the EV community. Google all the above. Lots of good inspirational reading on Steve and Chris.

Thanks for all I've learned from the group over the years.

David

--- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, jerry freedomev <freedomev@...> wrote:
>
> �
> �� Hi Dave and All,
> �
> �� It's not the windshield or roof that is hard, it's the doors.� Dors take longer than the rest of the body in most cases.��
> �
> �� As for the EV, anyone making an EV with aero that bad should not be taken seriously.� Giving up 50% range over 50mph just isn't a winning formula when all it takes is cleaning up the bodywork.� And an open roadster can be even more aero if done right because of lower frontal area. Just few are, like cars, done right aero wise.
> �
> �� Jerry Dycus
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dave <davenevland@...>
> To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 11:03 AM
> Subject: [xr3car] Re: Another EV 3-wheeler
>
> ...and another example of just how much more difficult it is to incorporate a wind screen and a roof.� It seems people jump into this type of venture and then end up saying to themselves, "Dang, putting a roof and windshield brings up more problems and is more involved than we realized.� Let's just make it a roadster and see how much buzz and how many orders we can get quick for it."
>
> In marketing, this is called "answering the question no one is asking".� Is the public clamoring for more open-top roadsters?� To me it seems the answer is a resounding "NO!"� I don't understand (except for my above paragraph) why there are so many roadster start-ups.
>
> --- In xr3car@yahoogroups.com, kendall bonner <merc2dogs@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >� Looks interesting, not certain I like the visuals though, all that open lattice work is sure to provide plenty of wind resistance. And, at least in the mock up photos, they definately chose the wrong tire pattern for the rear. That style is designed to be balanced with a mirror image tire on the opposite side. Tried that on my old fat tire riump chop, hit water and the sipe pattern would slew it to the side. Went to a normal pattern tire and it handled puddles very well by going straight through.� Real video, just the desire to show off their editing skills have compromised it actually as far as gleaning real information from watching it.� Could never figure out why people do that. some do extremely good work on something then play around with the video so much that you can't always tell if you're looking at a motorcycle, a street lamp or a dog lifting it's leg.
> >� � And audio tracks selected?� � The first body parts I ever made for a car I used cardboard to dummy it up, got it looking pretty nice, but it was way too angular for the rest of the car. Ended up redoing it in sheet foam built up like the strip built canoes. Bulkheads contoured and spaced to give the rough outline, then covered with 1 inch wide strips of 3/8 inch foam. Was able to get some pretty nice curves in it that blended very well with the rest of the car.� � > To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
> > > From: comftntrtl@
> > > Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 22:15:56 +0000
> > > Subject: [xr3car] Another EV 3-wheeler
> > >
> > > I know nothing about this except what's said about it on the below link:
> > >
> > > <http://www.evepic.com/torq-ev/item/29-the-evolution-of-the-epic-ev-torq.html>
> > >
> > > Scroll down to the bottom for what's said to be its "First Road Test."� Looks to me like a computer simulation...
> > >
> > > I really like its light weight cardboard body!� [Yeah, I know. It's just a body mock-up, but it's an interesting way to make one.]�
> > >
> > > Enjoy,
> > > Warren
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> � � http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

#7507

From: Bob Scoville <scovilleb@...>
Date: Wed Mar 7, 2012 5:58 pm
Subject: RE: Another EV 3-wheeler

scovillebob

I know they are selling the NMG. I talked to them last year about the advanced 8" DC motor that they use in the NMG. It is the same as the one in the XR3 except the shaft is about 3/4" shorter. I had to make an adapter for the pulley to work on the short shaft.

I think the DUO is a nice concept except I need all wheel drive.

Bob Scoville
Drafter
Rocky Mountain Prestress
scovilleb@...
Direct 303-964-7053
Cell

From: xr3car@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xr3car@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Davenport
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 10:52 AM
To: xr3car@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [xr3car] Another EV 3-wheeler

Aaron...

On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Bob Scoville <scovilleb@...> wrote:

And for purists you can get a solar power trailer.

Just some thoughts.

Bob Scoville

Bob Scoville
Drafter
Rocky Mountain Prestress
scovilleb@...
Direct 303-964-7053
Cell

--

Aaron...