Our 99 NiCd Force is now for sale.
Currently located in Santa Rosa, CA.
  Almost 50,000 miles.
  Good candidate for a Li transplant.
Nick

Nick Carter, PhD
Owner, npc Imaging
www.npcimaging.com
Tel: (707) 573 9361

what is price, color and other options.
How much life left on the NiCad?

On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 12:59 PM, <nick@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Our 99 NiCd Force is now for sale.
> Currently located in Santa Rosa, CA.
> Almost 50,000 miles.
> Good candidate for a Li transplant.
> Nick
>
> Nick Carter, PhD
> Owner, npc Imaging
> www.npcimaging.com
> Tel: (707) 573 9361
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Good news:  I got my amp-hour meter back up and running using the repair
procedure
discussed here a couple of weeks ago, and while I was at it took the instrument
cluster
apart and installed the combined volt-amp meter I bought from Solectria several
years
ago.  Installing that meter in the instrument cluster is not a job for the
faint-hearted!
I had to do some MAJOR surgery to the plastic housing and the flexible circuit
board that
carries signals to the lamps in there, and had to notch one of the three
connector plugs
that run to the cluster.  I took a few photos and if anyone is interested I can
post those
with some comments/descriptions.  It all works great, and is about as close to
built-in-looking as I think you can get.

Bad news: Took the car out today on a trip to nearby Grafton to pick up some
stuff for our
new tandem bike, and with the voltmeter in place I could see that there was a
fair amount
of voltage sag under load.  The NiCDs in there are 9 years old now and have been
losing
power for some time, but now they are really starting to look bad.  Was seeing
almost 2
amp-hours per mile energy consumption, which is pretty awful.  Got over into
Grafton and
started smelling something hot, but we were right next to a Charcoal Grill
restaurant and
behind a big SUV, so I was hoping the smell was not our car.

Made it to the bike shop and when I got out could still smell the hot smell, so
I knew
something was up.  Opened the hood and the motor is really hot.  Something is
not right,
because I know when I drove the car 150 miles in one day, every time I stopped I
popped
the hood to check the temperature of the controller and motor and they were
barely warm.

So I guess it's possible that the bad Ah/mile numbers could be somewhat
attributed to
something being bad in the motor, because obviously a lot of energy is being
lost in the
motor.

Some questions:

* I haven't been hearing anything like a squeal that would indicate a problem
with the
motor bearings, but could this be a bearing problem?
* Could it be an electrical problem, like a bad winding?
* Any other failure modes that could cause this heat?
* Does anyone know who can work on this motor?  Would Azure mess with it?  I'd
rather get
it repaired locally if possible, but would want it done right.

I do have a spare motor on hand from a New York Force I got back in 2003, so I
suppose I
could just swap that in for the time being and get the other motor repaired
without having
to worry about a rush job.

So on top of the battery issue, which I knew was coming up, now this motor thing
is going
to have to be dealt with.  I guess I'll call my local mechanic tomorrow and see
if he is
willing to tackle swapping out the motor.  What fun!

And speaking of the battery issue, I had been thinking of trying lithium-ions in
this car,
as the NiCDs have generally been a disappointment and I'm not crazy about having
to deal
with the plumbing for the liquid cooling again, but my wife and I discussed it
today while
we were driving home and I think that we will probably drop back to a cheap set
of
lead-acids this time and see where the state of battery technology is in a few
years.

-Tom

--
Thomas Hudson
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power&  More
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects

Hi Tom,

On the '99 Force I used to own, there was
a bad squeal from the transmission.  Solectria
wanted both the motor and tranny returned
as a unit since they shared a common bearing.

You might ask Beth S. at Azure Dynamics
for a recommendation.  My only bad experience
was that repair took over 5 months.

Fred

Sent from iPhone

On Oct 2, 2011, at 1:40 PM, Tom Hudson <tdhudson@...> wrote:

> Good news: I got my amp-hour meter back up and running using the repair
procedure
> discussed here a couple of weeks ago, and while I was at it took the
instrument cluster
> apart and installed the combined volt-amp meter I bought from Solectria
several years
> ago. Installing that meter in the instrument cluster is not a job for the
faint-hearted!
> I had to do some MAJOR surgery to the plastic housing and the flexible circuit
board that
> carries signals to the lamps in there, and had to notch one of the three
connector plugs
> that run to the cluster. I took a few photos and if anyone is interested I can
post those
> with some comments/descriptions. It all works great, and is about as close to
> built-in-looking as I think you can get.
>
> Bad news: Took the car out today on a trip to nearby Grafton to pick up some
stuff for our
> new tandem bike, and with the voltmeter in place I could see that there was a
fair amount
> of voltage sag under load. The NiCDs in there are 9 years old now and have
been losing
> power for some time, but now they are really starting to look bad. Was seeing
almost 2
> amp-hours per mile energy consumption, which is pretty awful. Got over into
Grafton and
> started smelling something hot, but we were right next to a Charcoal Grill
restaurant and
> behind a big SUV, so I was hoping the smell was not our car.
>
> Made it to the bike shop and when I got out could still smell the hot smell,
so I knew
> something was up. Opened the hood and the motor is really hot. Something is
not right,
> because I know when I drove the car 150 miles in one day, every time I stopped
I popped
> the hood to check the temperature of the controller and motor and they were
barely warm.
>
> So I guess it's possible that the bad Ah/mile numbers could be somewhat
attributed to
> something being bad in the motor, because obviously a lot of energy is being
lost in the
> motor.
>
> Some questions:
>
> * I haven't been hearing anything like a squeal that would indicate a problem
with the
> motor bearings, but could this be a bearing problem?
> * Could it be an electrical problem, like a bad winding?
> * Any other failure modes that could cause this heat?
> * Does anyone know who can work on this motor? Would Azure mess with it? I'd
rather get
> it repaired locally if possible, but would want it done right.
>
> I do have a spare motor on hand from a New York Force I got back in 2003, so I
suppose I
> could just swap that in for the time being and get the other motor repaired
without having
> to worry about a rush job.
>
> So on top of the battery issue, which I knew was coming up, now this motor
thing is going
> to have to be dealt with. I guess I'll call my local mechanic tomorrow and see
if he is
> willing to tackle swapping out the motor. What fun!
>
> And speaking of the battery issue, I had been thinking of trying lithium-ions
in this car,
> as the NiCDs have generally been a disappointment and I'm not crazy about
having to deal
> with the plumbing for the liquid cooling again, but my wife and I discussed it
today while
> we were driving home and I think that we will probably drop back to a cheap
set of
> lead-acids this time and see where the state of battery technology is in a few
years.
>
> -Tom
>
> --
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power& More
> http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

East Penn Mfg. sells the Deka 8G27 battery series of 12v Gel cells used in the
Solectria Force (Geo Metro). These are compatable with the Sonnenschein
batteries. You need to determine what post type is desired. I used the M type
but had to modify cable lugs to accomodate the larger post. My first set gave me
about 2000 charging cycles and 35,000 miles driven over 6 years. I put in my
second set last November and the current set has 5,000 miles.
 
East Penn has a dealer locater on their web-site to find a dealer near you.
Jay H Grossman
 


________________________________
From: StevenG <steveg@...>
To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 11:42 AM
Subject: [solectria_ev] Help needed for new batteries


 
Hello everyone,
I am posting in hopes of getting some assistance concerning the purchase of the
correct(or a good set of) batteries for a 99 Solectria Force. I have been
skimming the posts and have done a little bit of research, but honestly I am a
novice concerning EV's and the various battery options.

Currently I am trying to get my vehicle ready for sale and would like to make
sure a good set of batteries is installed. All other equipment is in good
working order and the solectria battery charger installed is the: Model BC3300.
The specs read, DC out: 3.3, KW: 156, AC Line:230(GFI), V~16, Batt Type: 156V
Sonnenschein (RICSON6.156)

The last set of batteries I had put in by a local battery company. The short of
the story is they were not the correct type, cooked over and I had a mess of
acid to clean up in the back. Fortunately there is no sverve damage, but I do
need to get the correct type of batteries in this vehicle.

Any information is greatly appreciated. Also If anyone is interesting in
possible purchasing the vehicle, please let me know. It is located in Augusta,
Ga.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Egads! Someone near Boston can get a bonus deal:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Other-Makes-1997-Geo-Metro-Solectria-Electric-Car\
-w-2nd-Parts-Car-/320766155250?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item4aaf2719f2

Item #320766155250 ends just before noon, eastern time. Includes TWO
1997 Solectria's, one working, one not. And the bid sits at just $2500.

If I was still in the area.... and if I hadn't just committed to a
different car project...

Looked at these yesterday. Neither is running, batteries dead, been sitting for
a year, some tires flat, disconnected BC3300 and AMC325 Controller from one,
questionable potential. Seller clueless about Solectria. Previously owned by EMC
of Hopkinton, MA.


Chip
cchandler66@...












[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Everybody,

I am still struggling with trying to get my Force running and am appealing to
the group for suggestions. Here's the background:

Last winter the care lost reverse. That is, when I turned the F/R knob to
reverse and stepped on the accelerator, nothing happened. I cleaned all the
terminals and looked for some obvious problem, but nothing. Someone suggested
that it was the keylock, so I replaced it, but still nothing.

I fiddled with this and that without success. Took the controller apart, but no
luck. Then Wolf generously offered to have a look at the controller, so I
shipped it to him. He didn't find anything wrong with it.

When I reinstalled the controller I found that I had neither forward or reverse.
I replaced the 25-pin cable between the dash controls and the controller, but
still nothing.

So the car sits and I stew. Any insights, thoughts, suggestions?

Thanks,
Michael

Unplug the 25 pin cable to the controller.
On the car side of the cable, the one that goes back to the switch, use a
meter in continuity test mode.

With the switch in neutral:
pins 1 and 3 = open, 1 and 16 = open.

With the switch in forward:
pins 1 and 3 = short, 1 and 16 = open.

With the switch in reverse:
pins 1 and 3 = open, 1 and 16 = short.

Amy other combination will prevent the controller from working.

Wolf
*wags his tail*
www.wolftronix.com
On Oct 4, 2011 12:03 PM, "evforever39" <mjennings@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Hi Everybody,
>
> I am still struggling with trying to get my Force running and am appealing
> to the group for suggestions. Here's the background:
>
> Last winter the care lost reverse. That is, when I turned the F/R knob to
> reverse and stepped on the accelerator, nothing happened. I cleaned all the
> terminals and looked for some obvious problem, but nothing. Someone
> suggested that it was the keylock, so I replaced it, but still nothing.
>
> I fiddled with this and that without success. Took the controller apart,
> but no luck. Then Wolf generously offered to have a look at the controller,
> so I shipped it to him. He didn't find anything wrong with it.
>
> When I reinstalled the controller I found that I had neither forward or
> reverse. I replaced the 25-pin cable between the dash controls and the
> controller, but still nothing.
>
> So the car sits and I stew. Any insights, thoughts, suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
> Michael
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Tue, 4 Oct 2011, evforever39 wrote:

> I fiddled with this and that without success. Took the controller apart,
> but no luck. Then Wolf generously offered to have a look at the
> controller, so I shipped it to him. He didn't find anything wrong with
> it.

Did he find it fully functional? How did he test it?

> When I reinstalled the controller I found that I had neither forward or
> reverse. I replaced the 25-pin cable between the dash controls and the
> controller, but still nothing.

Assuming you have a functioning controller, it seems to me you need to
establish that voltages are being applied where they need to go. The Force
is driven by 3-phase AC. How many phases are present in your car in either
forward or reverse?


Rob

I agree with Goldstein - a brief repair sequence would be helpful.  I haven't
had working brake lights for a while.  If you have photos of where stuff is
located that you could post that would be helpful - save us a bit of time
digging around and looking for where the relay is hidden, etc.

FYI - There is a 1 page diagram in the appendix of the 96 and 97 service manuals
(page 49 of the 97 Service Manual PDF).  Not overly detailed but it gives you
enough info to start tracing wires.

Johnny D

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Joshua Goldstein" <jg@...> wrote:
>
> Since we're talking about regen brake lights... Mine haven't worked in
> years.  Does anyone want to post a crisp summary of the essentials, like
> where the relays are located or what the usual problem is?  Apologies if
> it's already in the archives or manuals (I'm lazy).  Thanks,
> Joshua Goldstein, '99 Force
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ldr214" <replytome@...>
> To: <solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 12:11 PM
> Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: amp hour meter fuse
>
>
> > Some things seem to always happen to these cars as a group.  I was fixing
> > on my regen bake light circuit about 2 or 3 weeks ago.
> >
> > I usually keep the connector at the controller unplugged (another story)
> > but I had reconnected it and as the days have gotten shorter I didn't
> > think I was seeing any regen brake light after dark.  Further
> > investigation found it definitely not working.
> >
> > I could hear the relay clicking so I suspected a T-tap problem.  Had
> > voltage everywhere it should be at the relay.
> >
> > T-taps got to love them and hate them.  It wasn't the t-tap in this case.
> > As shorting the two connectors from the t-taps on the Geo brake wires
> > would light the lights.
> >
> > Finally decided to take the relay apart. Cover comes off fairly easily.
> > Cleaned the contact points with some contact cleaner and paper and there
> > is light again.
> >
> > Apparently the contacts would give me enough current to show on the
> > voltmeter but not enough to power the lights.
> >
> > Mike R
> >
> > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Gordon Stallings <genki@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Mike,
> >> Actually, I had the dashboard of my '96 opened up for T-tap repair
> >> when I saw the emails about the AH board. So I decided to do the
> >> preemptive modification and take photos along the way.  I had the
> >> instrument cluster out so I could reach some malfunctioning T-taps.
> >> These handy gadgets have a tendency to go open after a few years.
> >> This resulted in the relay on the regeneration line not picking up and
> >> so I had no brake light during regen.  All fixed now, but it's a nasty
> >> job to do.  I took a few photos, but other people probably know a more
> >> efficient way to repair. So I didn't bother to post.  This car still
> >> has a few T-taps that I've not replaced.  But I haven't traced them
> >> out to see what they do.  They may be the reason the air conditioning
> >> does not work in this car.
> >>
> >> --Gordon--
> >> 96 Force
> >> 99 Force
> >>
> >> On Sep 13, 2011, at 2:22 PM, ldr214 wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Gordon thanks for the fix post from your car.  Hope you had that in
> >> > a file folder and didn't R&R it just for this occassion.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

A question for the electronic wizardry out there.

I picked up one of Solectria's prototypes, 1991 Force, two door, lead acid,
solar panels, which had an upgrade done in 1992 by Solectria. This Force came
with a 1992 maintenance manual, so that is what I am referring to. Controller
has no markings, but for the Solectria label, I assume it is AC-300, as listed
in the Parts List. Motor is AC20gtx, from parts list too. Gates belt drive.

On the dash is the power toggle, Forward, Neutral, Reverse switch. The FORWARD
power setting seems to be equivalent to my ECON setting (approx. 60 amps draw)
on my 1996 Force. I need more power to the motor, if I am going run the 1991 in
the country and up hills. Right now it makes a city car only. My amp draw for
NORMAL and POWER in my 1996 is approximately 120 and 200 amps, respectively.

Question: Is there any way to change/wire the 1991 single power setting to get
200 amps?  120 amps would work, too. Alternatively I could put in a tri power
switch similar to the one in my 1996, if that were possible? Would either of
these involve changing controllers?

The ac300 controller has no cooling fans mounted on its forward edge. I would
put in lithium batteries so range anxiety and weight would be lower, depending
on the budget or loan for batteries, of course.

Thanks for your thoughts on this,

Chip
cchandler66@...

If it is like AMC controllers, then the power setting is set by the
resistance across pins 1 and 18, on the 25 pin D-sub.

10k = max
0 = min

You could use an ohm meter to measure the resistance across those pins, as
seen from the controller... ( unplug the 25 pin D-sub, then measure on the
vehicle side).

Then you would know the value of the resistor you are looking for in the
console. :)

Wolf
*wags his tail*
www.wolftronix.com
On Oct 9, 2011 9:35 AM, "cchandlerc66" <cchandler@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> A question for the electronic wizardry out there.
>
> I picked up one of Solectria's prototypes, 1991 Force, two door, lead acid,
> solar panels, which had an upgrade done in 1992 by Solectria. This Force
> came with a 1992 maintenance manual, so that is what I am referring to.
> Controller has no markings, but for the Solectria label, I assume it is
> AC-300, as listed in the Parts List. Motor is AC20gtx, from parts list too.
> Gates belt drive.
>
> On the dash is the power toggle, Forward, Neutral, Reverse switch. The
> FORWARD power setting seems to be equivalent to my ECON setting (approx. 60
> amps draw) on my 1996 Force. I need more power to the motor, if I am going
> run the 1991 in the country and up hills. Right now it makes a city car
> only. My amp draw for NORMAL and POWER in my 1996 is approximately 120 and
> 200 amps, respectively.
>
> Question: Is there any way to change/wire the 1991 single power setting to
> get 200 amps?  120 amps would work, too. Alternatively I could put in a tri
> power switch similar to the one in my 1996, if that were possible? Would
> either of these involve changing controllers?
>
> The ac300 controller has no cooling fans mounted on its forward edge. I
> would put in lithium batteries so range anxiety and weight would be lower,
> depending on the budget or loan for batteries, of course.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts on this,
>
> Chip
> cchandler66@...
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just wondering based on this discussion, is it possible to boost the power on
the later models - 99 Force that I have?  Even in power mode, it is a little too
wimpy on hills.  Can I squeeze any more out of it?
 
In econ mode, the car is worthless.  Takes forever even to get up to 25 MPH and
good luck going any faster than that.
 
So, needless to say, I always run it in power mode and want even more power on
top of that.
 
 
Steve

--- On Mon, 10/10/11, Wolf <wolf@...> wrote:


From: Wolf <wolf@...>
Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Changing power settings
To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, October 10, 2011, 11:00 AM


If it is like AMC controllers, then the power setting is set by the
resistance across pins 1 and 18, on the 25 pin D-sub.

10k = max
0 = min

You could use an ohm meter to measure the resistance across those pins, as
seen from the controller... ( unplug the 25 pin D-sub, then measure on the
vehicle side).

Then you would know the value of the resistor you are looking for in the
console. :)

Wolf
*wags his tail*
www.wolftronix.com
On Oct 9, 2011 9:35 AM, "cchandlerc66" <cchandler@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> A question for the electronic wizardry out there.
>
> I picked up one of Solectria's prototypes, 1991 Force, two door, lead acid,
> solar panels, which had an upgrade done in 1992 by Solectria. This Force
> came with a 1992 maintenance manual, so that is what I am referring to.
> Controller has no markings, but for the Solectria label, I assume it is
> AC-300, as listed in the Parts List. Motor is AC20gtx, from parts list too.
> Gates belt drive.
>
> On the dash is the power toggle, Forward, Neutral, Reverse switch. The
> FORWARD power setting seems to be equivalent to my ECON setting (approx. 60
> amps draw) on my 1996 Force. I need more power to the motor, if I am going
> run the 1991 in the country and up hills. Right now it makes a city car
> only. My amp draw for NORMAL and POWER in my 1996 is approximately 120 and
> 200 amps, respectively.
>
> Question: Is there any way to change/wire the 1991 single power setting to
> get 200 amps?  120 amps would work, too. Alternatively I could put in a tri
> power switch similar to the one in my 1996, if that were possible? Would
> either of these involve changing controllers?
>
> The ac300 controller has no cooling fans mounted on its forward edge. I
> would put in lithium batteries so range anxiety and weight would be lower,
> depending on the budget or loan for batteries, of course.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts on this,
>
> Chip
> cchandler66@...
>
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well, like I said, you can measure what the resistance is set to in
performance mode, if it is less then 10K ohms, then you can turn it up at
your own risk. ;)

The tri-power setting switch, just flips in different resistor values across
pins 1 and 18.

If that is not enough, or it is already at 10K, then you need to adjust the
MAX current value in the drive. 240 amps is max for the AMC325 (150 amps
continuous).

I only really drive my E-10 in economy mode, it keeps up with people
accelerating in the city, and tops out at 60 MPH...

Economy is 80 amps
Normal is 150 amps
Performance is 240 amps
(per controller)

I have not driven a Force, but it sounds under powered or something is wrong
with the drive...

Wolf
*wags his tail*
www.wolftronix.com

On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Steve Powers <powers_ev@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Just wondering based on this discussion, is it possible to boost the power
> on the later models - 99 Force that I have?  Even in power mode, it is a
> little too wimpy on hills.  Can I squeeze any more out of it?
>
> In econ mode, the car is worthless.  Takes forever even to get up to 25 MPH
> and good luck going any faster than that.
>
> So, needless to say, I always run it in power mode and want even more power
> on top of that.
>
>
> Steve
>
> --- On Mon, 10/10/11, Wolf <wolf@...> wrote:
>
> From: Wolf <wolf@...>
> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Changing power settings
> To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, October 10, 2011, 11:00 AM
>
>
> If it is like AMC controllers, then the power setting is set by the
> resistance across pins 1 and 18, on the 25 pin D-sub.
>
> 10k = max
> 0 = min
>
> You could use an ohm meter to measure the resistance across those pins, as
> seen from the controller... ( unplug the 25 pin D-sub, then measure on the
> vehicle side).
>
> Then you would know the value of the resistor you are looking for in the
> console. :)
>
> Wolf
> *wags his tail*
> www.wolftronix.com
> On Oct 9, 2011 9:35 AM, "cchandlerc66" <cchandler@...> wrote:
>
> > **
>
> >
> >
> > A question for the electronic wizardry out there.
> >
> > I picked up one of Solectria's prototypes, 1991 Force, two door, lead
> acid,
> > solar panels, which had an upgrade done in 1992 by Solectria. This Force
> > came with a 1992 maintenance manual, so that is what I am referring to.
> > Controller has no markings, but for the Solectria label, I assume it is
> > AC-300, as listed in the Parts List. Motor is AC20gtx, from parts list
> too.
> > Gates belt drive.
> >
> > On the dash is the power toggle, Forward, Neutral, Reverse switch. The
> > FORWARD power setting seems to be equivalent to my ECON setting (approx.
> 60
> > amps draw) on my 1996 Force. I need more power to the motor, if I am
> going
> > run the 1991 in the country and up hills. Right now it makes a city car
> > only. My amp draw for NORMAL and POWER in my 1996 is approximately 120
> and
> > 200 amps, respectively.
> >
> > Question: Is there any way to change/wire the 1991 single power setting
> to
> > get 200 amps?  120 amps would work, too. Alternatively I could put in a
> tri
> > power switch similar to the one in my 1996, if that were possible? Would
> > either of these involve changing controllers?
> >
> > The ac300 controller has no cooling fans mounted on its forward edge. I
> > would put in lithium batteries so range anxiety and weight would be
> lower,
> > depending on the budget or loan for batteries, of course.
> >
> > Thanks for your thoughts on this,
> >
> > Chip
> > cchandler66@...
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--
Wolf
*wags his tail*
www.wolftronix.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wolf,

I have my E10 listed and there isn't much interest.  Any idea what all the
parts individually could be sold for?  This is a 1995 144VDC Solectria E10
and everything works, air, heat, power steering, pfc40m charger, down to the
cooling fans on the motors.  Controllers are the AMC 325.  Do you need some
parts?  I can take it apart and mail you the pieces.

Tx!

-----Original Message-----
From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Wolf
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 10:32 AM
To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Changing power settings

Well, like I said, you can measure what the resistance is set to in
performance mode, if it is less then 10K ohms, then you can turn it up at
your own risk. ;)

The tri-power setting switch, just flips in different resistor values across
pins 1 and 18.

If that is not enough, or it is already at 10K, then you need to adjust the
MAX current value in the drive. 240 amps is max for the AMC325 (150 amps
continuous).

I only really drive my E-10 in economy mode, it keeps up with people
accelerating in the city, and tops out at 60 MPH...

Economy is 80 amps
Normal is 150 amps
Performance is 240 amps
(per controller)

I have not driven a Force, but it sounds under powered or something is wrong
with the drive...

Wolf
*wags his tail*
www.wolftronix.com

On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Steve Powers <powers_ev@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Just wondering based on this discussion, is it possible to boost the power
> on the later models - 99 Force that I have?  Even in power mode, it is a
> little too wimpy on hills.  Can I squeeze any more out of it?
>
> In econ mode, the car is worthless.  Takes forever even to get up to 25
MPH
> and good luck going any faster than that.
>
> So, needless to say, I always run it in power mode and want even more
power
> on top of that.
>
>
> Steve
>
> --- On Mon, 10/10/11, Wolf <wolf@...> wrote:
>
> From: Wolf <wolf@...>
> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Changing power settings
> To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, October 10, 2011, 11:00 AM
>
>
> If it is like AMC controllers, then the power setting is set by the
> resistance across pins 1 and 18, on the 25 pin D-sub.
>
> 10k = max
> 0 = min
>
> You could use an ohm meter to measure the resistance across those pins, as
> seen from the controller... ( unplug the 25 pin D-sub, then measure on the
> vehicle side).
>
> Then you would know the value of the resistor you are looking for in the
> console. :)
>
> Wolf
> *wags his tail*
> www.wolftronix.com
> On Oct 9, 2011 9:35 AM, "cchandlerc66" <cchandler@...> wrote:
>
> > **
>
> >
> >
> > A question for the electronic wizardry out there.
> >
> > I picked up one of Solectria's prototypes, 1991 Force, two door, lead
> acid,
> > solar panels, which had an upgrade done in 1992 by Solectria. This Force
> > came with a 1992 maintenance manual, so that is what I am referring to.
> > Controller has no markings, but for the Solectria label, I assume it is
> > AC-300, as listed in the Parts List. Motor is AC20gtx, from parts list
> too.
> > Gates belt drive.
> >
> > On the dash is the power toggle, Forward, Neutral, Reverse switch. The
> > FORWARD power setting seems to be equivalent to my ECON setting (approx.
> 60
> > amps draw) on my 1996 Force. I need more power to the motor, if I am
> going
> > run the 1991 in the country and up hills. Right now it makes a city car
> > only. My amp draw for NORMAL and POWER in my 1996 is approximately 120
> and
> > 200 amps, respectively.
> >
> > Question: Is there any way to change/wire the 1991 single power setting
> to
> > get 200 amps?  120 amps would work, too. Alternatively I could put in a
> tri
> > power switch similar to the one in my 1996, if that were possible? Would
> > either of these involve changing controllers?
> >
> > The ac300 controller has no cooling fans mounted on its forward edge. I
> > would put in lithium batteries so range anxiety and weight would be
> lower,
> > depending on the budget or loan for batteries, of course.
> >
> > Thanks for your thoughts on this,
> >
> > Chip
> > cchandler66@...
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--
Wolf
*wags his tail*
www.wolftronix.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

> Thanks muchly, Wolf.
>
> It is a 26 pin connector to this controller. My 1992 service manual shows a 26
pin in schematic but doesn't have pin number designations. Do all AMC
controllers have 25 pin connectors? The parts listing for my controller is
AC-300 Force. I don't see any resource for this at Solectria_EV.
>
> Alternatively, how would one increase the Max current value for the drive?
>
> Chip Chandler
> cchandler66@...
>
>
> On Oct 10, 2011, at 11:00 AM, Wolf <wolf@...> wrote:
>
>> If it is like AMC controllers, then the power setting is set by the
>> resistance across pins 1 and 18, on the 25 pin D-sub.
>>
>> 10k = max
>> 0 = min
>>
>> You could use an ohm meter to measure the resistance across those pins, as
>> seen from the controller... ( unplug the 25 pin D-sub, then measure on the
>> vehicle side).
>>
>> Then you would know the value of the resistor you are looking for in the
>> console. :)
>>
>> Wolf
>> *wags his tail*
>> www.wolftronix.com
>>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I do not have an E-10 but from previous forum discussions, doesn't the amp
meter and AH meter read HALF the actual value because of the current meter
shunt arrangement?

Dave


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wolf" <wolf@...>
To: <solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Changing power settings


> Well, like I said, you can measure what the resistance is set to in
> performance mode, if it is less then 10K ohms, then you can turn it up at
> your own risk. ;)
>
> The tri-power setting switch, just flips in different resistor values
> across
> pins 1 and 18.
>
> If that is not enough, or it is already at 10K, then you need to adjust
> the
> MAX current value in the drive. 240 amps is max for the AMC325 (150 amps
> continuous).
>
> I only really drive my E-10 in economy mode, it keeps up with people
> accelerating in the city, and tops out at 60 MPH...
>
> Economy is 80 amps
> Normal is 150 amps
> Performance is 240 amps
> (per controller)
>
> I have not driven a Force, but it sounds under powered or something is
> wrong
> with the drive...
>
> Wolf
> *wags his tail*
> www.wolftronix.com
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Steve Powers <powers_ev@...>
> wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> Just wondering based on this discussion, is it possible to boost the
>> power
>> on the later models - 99 Force that I have?  Even in power mode, it is a
>> little too wimpy on hills.  Can I squeeze any more out of it?
>>
>> In econ mode, the car is worthless.  Takes forever even to get up to 25
>> MPH
>> and good luck going any faster than that.
>>
>> So, needless to say, I always run it in power mode and want even more
>> power
>> on top of that.
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> --- On Mon, 10/10/11, Wolf <wolf@...> wrote:
>>
>> From: Wolf <wolf@...>
>> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Changing power settings
>> To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
>> Date: Monday, October 10, 2011, 11:00 AM
>>
>>
>> If it is like AMC controllers, then the power setting is set by the
>> resistance across pins 1 and 18, on the 25 pin D-sub.
>>
>> 10k = max
>> 0 = min
>>
>> You could use an ohm meter to measure the resistance across those pins,
>> as
>> seen from the controller... ( unplug the 25 pin D-sub, then measure on
>> the
>> vehicle side).
>>
>> Then you would know the value of the resistor you are looking for in the
>> console. :)
>>
>> Wolf
>> *wags his tail*
>> www.wolftronix.com
>> On Oct 9, 2011 9:35 AM, "cchandlerc66" <cchandler@...> wrote:
>>
>> > **
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > A question for the electronic wizardry out there.
>> >
>> > I picked up one of Solectria's prototypes, 1991 Force, two door, lead
>> acid,
>> > solar panels, which had an upgrade done in 1992 by Solectria. This
>> > Force
>> > came with a 1992 maintenance manual, so that is what I am referring to.
>> > Controller has no markings, but for the Solectria label, I assume it is
>> > AC-300, as listed in the Parts List. Motor is AC20gtx, from parts list
>> too.
>> > Gates belt drive.
>> >
>> > On the dash is the power toggle, Forward, Neutral, Reverse switch. The
>> > FORWARD power setting seems to be equivalent to my ECON setting
>> > (approx.
>> 60
>> > amps draw) on my 1996 Force. I need more power to the motor, if I am
>> going
>> > run the 1991 in the country and up hills. Right now it makes a city car
>> > only. My amp draw for NORMAL and POWER in my 1996 is approximately 120
>> and
>> > 200 amps, respectively.
>> >
>> > Question: Is there any way to change/wire the 1991 single power setting
>> to
>> > get 200 amps?  120 amps would work, too. Alternatively I could put in a
>> tri
>> > power switch similar to the one in my 1996, if that were possible?
>> > Would
>> > either of these involve changing controllers?
>> >
>> > The ac300 controller has no cooling fans mounted on its forward edge. I
>> > would put in lithium batteries so range anxiety and weight would be
>> lower,
>> > depending on the budget or loan for batteries, of course.
>> >
>> > Thanks for your thoughts on this,
>> >
>> > Chip
>> > cchandler66@...
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Wolf
> *wags his tail*
> www.wolftronix.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Found the 26 pin source at  evdl.org/lib . In German. Pins of concern are 11,12,
13, 10kohms linear. Will test this out tomorrow.

I've been able to reach 55 on level ground in econ mode but it
required increasing the cars voltage by changing the battery setup.
I did this on my 99 force.  When I leave the driveway in the morning
my cars voltage is just shy of 190v.  When I get home after work
(50 mile drive) I'm usually reading around 165. Basically I'm
pushing up to the absolute max voltage the controller can handle by
adding batteries in series.  Running near the controllers absolute
max voltage is not without risk but if you want to consider it.
My driving experience with this setup has shown a definate increase
in the cars power.  My drive to work and back includes a 400ft change
in elevation, over 40 traffic lights and 20 miles of highway driving,
yet I still average about 1ah per mile, just another bonus.

Eric
99 force
66,500 miles



Original Message:
-----------------
From: Steve Powers powers_ev@...
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 09:34:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Changing power settings


Just wondering based on this discussion, is it possible to boost the power
on the later models - 99 Force that I have?  Even in power mode, it is a
little too wimpy on hills.  Can I squeeze any more out of it?
 
In econ mode, the car is worthless.  Takes forever even to get up to 25 MPH
and good luck going any faster than that.
 
So, needless to say, I always run it in power mode and want even more power
on top of that.
 
 
Steve

--- On Mon, 10/10/11, Wolf <wolf@...> wrote:


From: Wolf <wolf@...>
Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Changing power settings
To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, October 10, 2011, 11:00 AM


If it is like AMC controllers, then the power setting is set by the
resistance across pins 1 and 18, on the 25 pin D-sub.

10k = max
0 = min

You could use an ohm meter to measure the resistance across those pins, as
seen from the controller... ( unplug the 25 pin D-sub, then measure on the
vehicle side).

Then you would know the value of the resistor you are looking for in the
console. :)

Wolf
*wags his tail*
www.wolftronix.com
On Oct 9, 2011 9:35 AM, "cchandlerc66" <cchandler@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> A question for the electronic wizardry out there.
>
> I picked up one of Solectria's prototypes, 1991 Force, two door, lead
acid,
> solar panels, which had an upgrade done in 1992 by Solectria. This Force
> came with a 1992 maintenance manual, so that is what I am referring to.
> Controller has no markings, but for the Solectria label, I assume it is
> AC-300, as listed in the Parts List. Motor is AC20gtx, from parts list
too.
> Gates belt drive.
>
> On the dash is the power toggle, Forward, Neutral, Reverse switch. The
> FORWARD power setting seems to be equivalent to my ECON setting (approx.
60
> amps draw) on my 1996 Force. I need more power to the motor, if I am going
> run the 1991 in the country and up hills. Right now it makes a city car
> only. My amp draw for NORMAL and POWER in my 1996 is approximately 120 and
> 200 amps, respectively.
>
> Question: Is there any way to change/wire the 1991 single power setting to
> get 200 amps?  120 amps would work, too. Alternatively I could put in a
tri
> power switch similar to the one in my 1996, if that were possible? Would
> either of these involve changing controllers?
>
> The ac300 controller has no cooling fans mounted on its forward edge. I
> would put in lithium batteries so range anxiety and weight would be lower,
> depending on the budget or loan for batteries, of course.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts on this,
>
> Chip
> cchandler66@...
>
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web LIVE – Free email based on Microsoft® Exchange technology -
http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE

All AMC, and UMOC controllers have the 25-pin connector.

If you have a 26-pin connector then it will have a different pin out.

I have never seen an AC-300 controller so don't think I will be much help.
:(

Wolf
*wags his tail*
www.wolftronix.com
On Oct 10, 2011 3:06 PM, "Chip Chandler" <cchandler@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> > Thanks muchly, Wolf.
> >
> > It is a 26 pin connector to this controller. My 1992 service manual shows
> a 26 pin in schematic but doesn't have pin number designations. Do all AMC
> controllers have 25 pin connectors? The parts listing for my controller is
> AC-300 Force. I don't see any resource for this at Solectria_EV.
> >
> > Alternatively, how would one increase the Max current value for the
> drive?
> >
> > Chip Chandler
> > cchandler66@...
> >
> >
> > On Oct 10, 2011, at 11:00 AM, Wolf <wolf@...> wrote:
> >
> >> If it is like AMC controllers, then the power setting is set by the
> >> resistance across pins 1 and 18, on the 25 pin D-sub.
> >>
> >> 10k = max
> >> 0 = min
> >>
> >> You could use an ohm meter to measure the resistance across those pins,
> as
> >> seen from the controller... ( unplug the 25 pin D-sub, then measure on
> the
> >> vehicle side).
> >>
> >> Then you would know the value of the resistor you are looking for in the
> >> console. :)
> >>
> >> Wolf
> >> *wags his tail*
> >> www.wolftronix.com
> >>
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wow, I would hate to see you take apart a perfectly working truck...

I think you could get $500 - $1000 for the major parts, (motors,
controllers, charger, drive train, etc...

I would be interested in the whole truck if the price is right (and I can
get permission from my better half)... and I can find the space for it...
and save you the trouble of taking it all apart... :)

Wait, you have cooling fans on your motors? I don't have any cooling fans on
mine... Also does it have the heat pads in the battery boxes? Mine is
missing that too...

Wolf
*wags his tail*
www.wolftronix.com
On Oct 10, 2011 12:38 PM, "Tom Shjarback" <tom@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Wolf,
>
> I have my E10 listed and there isn't much interest. Any idea what all the
> parts individually could be sold for? This is a 1995 144VDC Solectria E10
> and everything works, air, heat, power steering, pfc40m charger, down to
> the
> cooling fans on the motors. Controllers are the AMC 325. Do you need some
> parts? I can take it apart and mail you the pieces.
>
> Tx!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
> On
> Behalf Of Wolf
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 10:32 AM
> To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Changing power settings
>
> Well, like I said, you can measure what the resistance is set to in
> performance mode, if it is less then 10K ohms, then you can turn it up at
> your own risk. ;)
>
> The tri-power setting switch, just flips in different resistor values
> across
> pins 1 and 18.
>
> If that is not enough, or it is already at 10K, then you need to adjust the
> MAX current value in the drive. 240 amps is max for the AMC325 (150 amps
> continuous).
>
> I only really drive my E-10 in economy mode, it keeps up with people
> accelerating in the city, and tops out at 60 MPH...
>
> Economy is 80 amps
> Normal is 150 amps
> Performance is 240 amps
> (per controller)
>
> I have not driven a Force, but it sounds under powered or something is
> wrong
> with the drive...
>
> Wolf
> *wags his tail*
> www.wolftronix.com
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Steve Powers <powers_ev@...>
> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Just wondering based on this discussion, is it possible to boost the
> power
> > on the later models - 99 Force that I have? Even in power mode, it is a
> > little too wimpy on hills. Can I squeeze any more out of it?
> >
> > In econ mode, the car is worthless. Takes forever even to get up to 25
> MPH
> > and good luck going any faster than that.
> >
> > So, needless to say, I always run it in power mode and want even more
> power
> > on top of that.
> >
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > --- On Mon, 10/10/11, Wolf <wolf@...> wrote:
> >
> > From: Wolf <wolf@...>
> > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Changing power settings
> > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Monday, October 10, 2011, 11:00 AM
> >
> >
> > If it is like AMC controllers, then the power setting is set by the
> > resistance across pins 1 and 18, on the 25 pin D-sub.
> >
> > 10k = max
> > 0 = min
> >
> > You could use an ohm meter to measure the resistance across those pins,
> as
> > seen from the controller... ( unplug the 25 pin D-sub, then measure on
> the
> > vehicle side).
> >
> > Then you would know the value of the resistor you are looking for in the
> > console. :)
> >
> > Wolf
> > *wags his tail*
> > www.wolftronix.com
> > On Oct 9, 2011 9:35 AM, "cchandlerc66" <cchandler@...> wrote:
> >
> > > **
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > A question for the electronic wizardry out there.
> > >
> > > I picked up one of Solectria's prototypes, 1991 Force, two door, lead
> > acid,
> > > solar panels, which had an upgrade done in 1992 by Solectria. This
> Force
> > > came with a 1992 maintenance manual, so that is what I am referring to.
> > > Controller has no markings, but for the Solectria label, I assume it is
> > > AC-300, as listed in the Parts List. Motor is AC20gtx, from parts list
> > too.
> > > Gates belt drive.
> > >
> > > On the dash is the power toggle, Forward, Neutral, Reverse switch. The
> > > FORWARD power setting seems to be equivalent to my ECON setting
> (approx.
> > 60
> > > amps draw) on my 1996 Force. I need more power to the motor, if I am
> > going
> > > run the 1991 in the country and up hills. Right now it makes a city car
> > > only. My amp draw for NORMAL and POWER in my 1996 is approximately 120
> > and
> > > 200 amps, respectively.
> > >
> > > Question: Is there any way to change/wire the 1991 single power setting
> > to
> > > get 200 amps? 120 amps would work, too. Alternatively I could put in a
> > tri
> > > power switch similar to the one in my 1996, if that were possible?
> Would
> > > either of these involve changing controllers?
> > >
> > > The ac300 controller has no cooling fans mounted on its forward edge. I
> > > would put in lithium batteries so range anxiety and weight would be
> > lower,
> > > depending on the budget or loan for batteries, of course.
> > >
> > > Thanks for your thoughts on this,
> > >
> > > Chip
> > > cchandler66@...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Wolf
> *wags his tail*
> www.wolftronix.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yup, but I take that I into account when I give out current, amp-hour, and
watt-hour numbers. ;)

So my numbers are actual, not gage. I get around 288 actual watt-hours per
mile (1 amp-hour per mile on the gauge).

Wolf
*wags his tail*
www.wolftronix.com
On Oct 10, 2011 6:49 PM, "David Patterson" <DRPatterson@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I do not have an E-10 but from previous forum discussions, doesn't the amp
> meter and AH meter read HALF the actual value because of the current meter
> shunt arrangement?
>
> Dave
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wolf" <wolf@...>
> To: <solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 1:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Changing power settings
>
> > Well, like I said, you can measure what the resistance is set to in
> > performance mode, if it is less then 10K ohms, then you can turn it up at
> > your own risk. ;)
> >
> > The tri-power setting switch, just flips in different resistor values
> > across
> > pins 1 and 18.
> >
> > If that is not enough, or it is already at 10K, then you need to adjust
> > the
> > MAX current value in the drive. 240 amps is max for the AMC325 (150 amps
> > continuous).
> >
> > I only really drive my E-10 in economy mode, it keeps up with people
> > accelerating in the city, and tops out at 60 MPH...
> >
> > Economy is 80 amps
> > Normal is 150 amps
> > Performance is 240 amps
> > (per controller)
> >
> > I have not driven a Force, but it sounds under powered or something is
> > wrong
> > with the drive...
> >
> > Wolf
> > *wags his tail*
> > www.wolftronix.com
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Steve Powers <powers_ev@...>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> **
> >>
> >>
> >> Just wondering based on this discussion, is it possible to boost the
> >> power
> >> on the later models - 99 Force that I have? Even in power mode, it is a
> >> little too wimpy on hills. Can I squeeze any more out of it?
> >>
> >> In econ mode, the car is worthless. Takes forever even to get up to 25
> >> MPH
> >> and good luck going any faster than that.
> >>
> >> So, needless to say, I always run it in power mode and want even more
> >> power
> >> on top of that.
> >>
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >> --- On Mon, 10/10/11, Wolf <wolf@...> wrote:
> >>
> >> From: Wolf <wolf@...>
> >> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Changing power settings
> >> To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> >> Date: Monday, October 10, 2011, 11:00 AM
> >>
> >>
> >> If it is like AMC controllers, then the power setting is set by the
> >> resistance across pins 1 and 18, on the 25 pin D-sub.
> >>
> >> 10k = max
> >> 0 = min
> >>
> >> You could use an ohm meter to measure the resistance across those pins,
> >> as
> >> seen from the controller... ( unplug the 25 pin D-sub, then measure on
> >> the
> >> vehicle side).
> >>
> >> Then you would know the value of the resistor you are looking for in the
> >> console. :)
> >>
> >> Wolf
> >> *wags his tail*
> >> www.wolftronix.com
> >> On Oct 9, 2011 9:35 AM, "cchandlerc66" <cchandler@...> wrote:
> >>
> >> > **
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > A question for the electronic wizardry out there.
> >> >
> >> > I picked up one of Solectria's prototypes, 1991 Force, two door, lead
> >> acid,
> >> > solar panels, which had an upgrade done in 1992 by Solectria. This
> >> > Force
> >> > came with a 1992 maintenance manual, so that is what I am referring
> to.
> >> > Controller has no markings, but for the Solectria label, I assume it
> is
> >> > AC-300, as listed in the Parts List. Motor is AC20gtx, from parts list
> >> too.
> >> > Gates belt drive.
> >> >
> >> > On the dash is the power toggle, Forward, Neutral, Reverse switch. The
> >> > FORWARD power setting seems to be equivalent to my ECON setting
> >> > (approx.
> >> 60
> >> > amps draw) on my 1996 Force. I need more power to the motor, if I am
> >> going
> >> > run the 1991 in the country and up hills. Right now it makes a city
> car
> >> > only. My amp draw for NORMAL and POWER in my 1996 is approximately 120
> >> and
> >> > 200 amps, respectively.
> >> >
> >> > Question: Is there any way to change/wire the 1991 single power
> setting
> >> to
> >> > get 200 amps? 120 amps would work, too. Alternatively I could put in a
> >> tri
> >> > power switch similar to the one in my 1996, if that were possible?
> >> > Would
> >> > either of these involve changing controllers?
> >> >
> >> > The ac300 controller has no cooling fans mounted on its forward edge.
> I
> >> > would put in lithium batteries so range anxiety and weight would be
> >> lower,
> >> > depending on the budget or loan for batteries, of course.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks for your thoughts on this,
> >> >
> >> > Chip
> >> > cchandler66@...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Wolf
> > *wags his tail*
> > www.wolftronix.com
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You have to compare watt-hours per mile, that takes care of the voltage
differences. ;)

You are getting 190 watt-hours per mile...
For comparison, I get 288 watt-hours per mile.

So you are doing better than my truck. :D

Wolf
*wags his tail*
www.wolftronix.com
On Oct 10, 2011 10:11 PM, "EricKrofchak@..." <
EricKrofchak@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I've been able to reach 55 on level ground in econ mode but it
> required increasing the cars voltage by changing the battery setup.
> I did this on my 99 force. When I leave the driveway in the morning
> my cars voltage is just shy of 190v. When I get home after work
> (50 mile drive) I'm usually reading around 165. Basically I'm
> pushing up to the absolute max voltage the controller can handle by
> adding batteries in series. Running near the controllers absolute
> max voltage is not without risk but if you want to consider it.
> My driving experience with this setup has shown a definate increase
> in the cars power. My drive to work and back includes a 400ft change
> in elevation, over 40 traffic lights and 20 miles of highway driving,
> yet I still average about 1ah per mile, just another bonus.
>
> Eric
> 99 force
> 66,500 miles
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Steve Powers powers_ev@...
> Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 09:34:52 -0700 (PDT)
> To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Changing power settings
>
> Just wondering based on this discussion, is it possible to boost the power
> on the later models - 99 Force that I have?  Even in power mode, it is a
> little too wimpy on hills.  Can I squeeze any more out of it?
>
> In econ mode, the car is worthless.  Takes forever even to get up to 25 MPH
> and good luck going any faster than that.
>
> So, needless to say, I always run it in power mode and want even more power
> on top of that.
>
>
> Steve
>
> --- On Mon, 10/10/11, Wolf <wolf@...> wrote:
>
> From: Wolf <wolf@...>
> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Changing power settings
> To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, October 10, 2011, 11:00 AM
>
> If it is like AMC controllers, then the power setting is set by the
> resistance across pins 1 and 18, on the 25 pin D-sub.
>
> 10k = max
> 0 = min
>
> You could use an ohm meter to measure the resistance across those pins, as
> seen from the controller... ( unplug the 25 pin D-sub, then measure on the
> vehicle side).
>
> Then you would know the value of the resistor you are looking for in the
> console. :)
>
> Wolf
> *wags his tail*
> www.wolftronix.com
> On Oct 9, 2011 9:35 AM, "cchandlerc66" <cchandler@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > A question for the electronic wizardry out there.
> >
> > I picked up one of Solectria's prototypes, 1991 Force, two door, lead
> acid,
> > solar panels, which had an upgrade done in 1992 by Solectria. This Force
> > came with a 1992 maintenance manual, so that is what I am referring to.
> > Controller has no markings, but for the Solectria label, I assume it is
> > AC-300, as listed in the Parts List. Motor is AC20gtx, from parts list
> too.
> > Gates belt drive.
> >
> > On the dash is the power toggle, Forward, Neutral, Reverse switch. The
> > FORWARD power setting seems to be equivalent to my ECON setting (approx.
> 60
> > amps draw) on my 1996 Force. I need more power to the motor, if I am
> going
> > run the 1991 in the country and up hills. Right now it makes a city car
> > only. My amp draw for NORMAL and POWER in my 1996 is approximately 120
> and
> > 200 amps, respectively.
> >
> > Question: Is there any way to change/wire the 1991 single power setting
> to
> > get 200 amps?  120 amps would work, too. Alternatively I could put in a
> tri
> > power switch similar to the one in my 1996, if that were possible? Would
> > either of these involve changing controllers?
> >
> > The ac300 controller has no cooling fans mounted on its forward edge. I
> > would put in lithium batteries so range anxiety and weight would be
> lower,
> > depending on the budget or loan for batteries, of course.
> >
> > Thanks for your thoughts on this,
> >
> > Chip
> > cchandler66@...
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web LIVE – Free email based on Microsoft® Exchange technology -
> http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This coming Sunday is National Plug-in Day and there are lots of events going on
around the country.  If anyone is interested in participating with their
Solectria EV you can find locations at

http://www.pluginamerica.org/pluginday

I know there are a couple of guys interested in selling their vehicles so if
there is an event near you find a good parking spot and put a For Sale sign on
the vehicle - I see lots of people do that at classic car shows so have to
assume it works.

Noel
evfinder.com

The truck is listed on Ebay, starting bid 5k.   No battery heaters.   The
wireing was there when i got the truck, no pads.

Tom Shjarback
Tom@...


On Oct 11, 2011, at 7:50 AM, Wolf <wolf@...> wrote:

> Wow, I would hate to see you take apart a perfectly working truck...
>
> I think you could get $500 - $1000 for the major parts, (motors,
> controllers, charger, drive train, etc...
>
> I would be interested in the whole truck if the price is right (and I can
> get permission from my better half)... and I can find the space for it...
> and save you the trouble of taking it all apart... :)
>
> Wait, you have cooling fans on your motors? I don't have any cooling fans on
> mine... Also does it have the heat pads in the battery boxes? Mine is
> missing that too...
>
> Wolf
> *wags his tail*
> www.wolftronix.com
> On Oct 10, 2011 12:38 PM, "Tom Shjarback" <tom@...> wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> Wolf,
>>
>> I have my E10 listed and there isn't much interest. Any idea what all the
>> parts individually could be sold for? This is a 1995 144VDC Solectria E10
>> and everything works, air, heat, power steering, pfc40m charger, down to
>> the
>> cooling fans on the motors. Controllers are the AMC 325. Do you need some
>> parts? I can take it apart and mail you the pieces.
>>
>> Tx!
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Wolf
>> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 10:32 AM
>> To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Changing power settings
>>
>> Well, like I said, you can measure what the resistance is set to in
>> performance mode, if it is less then 10K ohms, then you can turn it up at
>> your own risk. ;)
>>
>> The tri-power setting switch, just flips in different resistor values
>> across
>> pins 1 and 18.
>>
>> If that is not enough, or it is already at 10K, then you need to adjust the
>> MAX current value in the drive. 240 amps is max for the AMC325 (150 amps
>> continuous).
>>
>> I only really drive my E-10 in economy mode, it keeps up with people
>> accelerating in the city, and tops out at 60 MPH...
>>
>> Economy is 80 amps
>> Normal is 150 amps
>> Performance is 240 amps
>> (per controller)
>>
>> I have not driven a Force, but it sounds under powered or something is
>> wrong
>> with the drive...
>>
>> Wolf
>> *wags his tail*
>> www.wolftronix.com
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Steve Powers <powers_ev@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> **
>>>
>>>
>>> Just wondering based on this discussion, is it possible to boost the
>> power
>>> on the later models - 99 Force that I have? Even in power mode, it is a
>>> little too wimpy on hills. Can I squeeze any more out of it?
>>>
>>> In econ mode, the car is worthless. Takes forever even to get up to 25
>> MPH
>>> and good luck going any faster than that.
>>>
>>> So, needless to say, I always run it in power mode and want even more
>> power
>>> on top of that.
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> --- On Mon, 10/10/11, Wolf <wolf@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: Wolf <wolf@...>
>>> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Changing power settings
>>> To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
>>> Date: Monday, October 10, 2011, 11:00 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> If it is like AMC controllers, then the power setting is set by the
>>> resistance across pins 1 and 18, on the 25 pin D-sub.
>>>
>>> 10k = max
>>> 0 = min
>>>
>>> You could use an ohm meter to measure the resistance across those pins,
>> as
>>> seen from the controller... ( unplug the 25 pin D-sub, then measure on
>> the
>>> vehicle side).
>>>
>>> Then you would know the value of the resistor you are looking for in the
>>> console. :)
>>>
>>> Wolf
>>> *wags his tail*
>>> www.wolftronix.com
>>> On Oct 9, 2011 9:35 AM, "cchandlerc66" <cchandler@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> **
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A question for the electronic wizardry out there.
>>>>
>>>> I picked up one of Solectria's prototypes, 1991 Force, two door, lead
>>> acid,
>>>> solar panels, which had an upgrade done in 1992 by Solectria. This
>> Force
>>>> came with a 1992 maintenance manual, so that is what I am referring to.
>>>> Controller has no markings, but for the Solectria label, I assume it is
>>>> AC-300, as listed in the Parts List. Motor is AC20gtx, from parts list
>>> too.
>>>> Gates belt drive.
>>>>
>>>> On the dash is the power toggle, Forward, Neutral, Reverse switch. The
>>>> FORWARD power setting seems to be equivalent to my ECON setting
>> (approx.
>>> 60
>>>> amps draw) on my 1996 Force. I need more power to the motor, if I am
>>> going
>>>> run the 1991 in the country and up hills. Right now it makes a city car
>>>> only. My amp draw for NORMAL and POWER in my 1996 is approximately 120
>>> and
>>>> 200 amps, respectively.
>>>>
>>>> Question: Is there any way to change/wire the 1991 single power setting
>>> to
>>>> get 200 amps? 120 amps would work, too. Alternatively I could put in a
>>> tri
>>>> power switch similar to the one in my 1996, if that were possible?
>> Would
>>>> either of these involve changing controllers?
>>>>
>>>> The ac300 controller has no cooling fans mounted on its forward edge. I
>>>> would put in lithium batteries so range anxiety and weight would be
>>> lower,
>>>> depending on the budget or loan for batteries, of course.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your thoughts on this,
>>>>
>>>> Chip
>>>> cchandler66@...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Wolf
>> *wags his tail*
>> www.wolftronix.com
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Done.  I just put a procedure up in the Files under Solectria Force Regen
Relay.pdf  Pretty easy fix. - johnnydwa

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Joshua Goldstein" <jg@...> wrote:
>
> Since we're talking about regen brake lights... Mine haven't worked in
> years.  Does anyone want to post a crisp summary of the essentials, like
> where the relays are located or what the usual problem is?  Apologies if
> it's already in the archives or manuals (I'm lazy).  Thanks,
> Joshua Goldstein, '99 Force
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ldr214" <replytome@...>
> To: <solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 12:11 PM
> Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: amp hour meter fuse
>
>
> > Some things seem to always happen to these cars as a group.  I was fixing
> > on my regen bake light circuit about 2 or 3 weeks ago.
> >
> > I usually keep the connector at the controller unplugged (another story)
> > but I had reconnected it and as the days have gotten shorter I didn't
> > think I was seeing any regen brake light after dark.  Further
> > investigation found it definitely not working.
> >
> > I could hear the relay clicking so I suspected a T-tap problem.  Had
> > voltage everywhere it should be at the relay.
> >
> > T-taps got to love them and hate them.  It wasn't the t-tap in this case.
> > As shorting the two connectors from the t-taps on the Geo brake wires
> > would light the lights.
> >
> > Finally decided to take the relay apart. Cover comes off fairly easily.
> > Cleaned the contact points with some contact cleaner and paper and there
> > is light again.
> >
> > Apparently the contacts would give me enough current to show on the
> > voltmeter but not enough to power the lights.
> >
> > Mike R
> >
> > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Gordon Stallings <genki@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Mike,
> >> Actually, I had the dashboard of my '96 opened up for T-tap repair
> >> when I saw the emails about the AH board. So I decided to do the
> >> preemptive modification and take photos along the way.  I had the
> >> instrument cluster out so I could reach some malfunctioning T-taps.
> >> These handy gadgets have a tendency to go open after a few years.
> >> This resulted in the relay on the regeneration line not picking up and
> >> so I had no brake light during regen.  All fixed now, but it's a nasty
> >> job to do.  I took a few photos, but other people probably know a more
> >> efficient way to repair. So I didn't bother to post.  This car still
> >> has a few T-taps that I've not replaced.  But I haven't traced them
> >> out to see what they do.  They may be the reason the air conditioning
> >> does not work in this car.
> >>
> >> --Gordon--
> >> 96 Force
> >> 99 Force
> >>
> >> On Sep 13, 2011, at 2:22 PM, ldr214 wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Gordon thanks for the fix post from your car.  Hope you had that in
> >> > a file folder and didn't R&R it just for this occassion.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Hello Chip

I would highly recommend for the driving conditions your talking about to
go with the LifePo4 CALB. I have no vested interest in CALB  but right now
they are the best value for your dollar. If there  was a better LifePo4 for
the same amount or less I would like to  know.


Most lead acid batteries are tested at the 20 hour rate and to 80% DOD for
capacity and cycle life. This is just so far off from the real world loads
in an  EV. So the life cycles you can expect are far less then most
manufacturers  claim. Some even try to be tricky and use a end of life at 60%
capacity for a higher cycle life numbers. Even a C2 rating which on a 100  amp
hour battery is only 50 amps. Most manufacturers don't share testing  at 50
amps for a very good reason. Its not that they would  not like to have a lead
battery capable of handling EV loads. The  data would be very disappointing
so almost all of them just don't go  there.


When you start talking about loads in the 100 to 200 amp range. I have yet
to see any lead acid module that this does not drastically reduce cycle
life. The later models Solectria Force in the 150 plus volt range is about
one of the best performing lead acid EVs around. As long as you keep the  load
for the most part 50 amps or less. If your use involves a lot of steep
hills, freeway speeds, or the worst freeway speeds with hills. The  lead acid
chemistry actually cost more in the long run. If you drive enough  miles or
your loads are high the payback could be in just a few  years.

If possible it would be best to have an EV that shows voltage, amp load and
  amp hours drive most of the areas you would be using your EV at. While
someone  else is driving note your amp load, voltage and time you use the high
loads also  your total amp hours used. With this information you will be
able to make a much  more informed decision. Even LifePo4 needs to be sized
correctly or your results  could be just as disappointing as lead except
costlier.

I have one hill on a freeway that if I am not careful requires 150  amps at
360 volts which is 54,000 watts. This is more power then most  homes have
with a 200 amp service. My routine on this hill is to increase speed  before
using 60 amps and just let the hill slow the vehicle down to 45 miles an
hour. It is only for a minute so I am fine with making this concession. There
are hills here that would take 150 to 200 amps for 5 to 8 minutes. I never
use  them unless I am going down hill.  I then come back a different  way
that is not on a freeway.

Amp loads have a huge effect on pack life. I don't mind making the
sacrifice here or there to keep the loads down since in the long run  it saves
me
time and money. You really have to know your loads when it comes to  hills.
Some here are 36,000 to 54,000 watts and your speed is only 15 or 20  miles
an hour. If I was on the freeway I would be going 60 miles an hour or a  mile
for every minute climbing the hill. Its a lot to ask of any battery at
least the ones we can buy today.

Don


In a message dated 10/9/2011 7:35:13 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
cchandler@... writes:

Question: Is there any way to change/wire the 1991 single power setting  to
get 200 amps?  120 amps would work, too. Alternatively I could put in  a
tri power switch similar to the one in my 1996, if that were possible? Would
either of these involve changing controllers?

The ac300 controller has  no cooling fans mounted on its forward edge. I
would put in lithium batteries  so range anxiety and weight would be lower,
depending on the budget or loan  for batteries, of course.

Thanks for your thoughts on  this,

Chip
_cchandler66@..._ (mailto:cchandler66@...)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> 
>So, needless to say, I always run it in power mode and want even more
power >on top of that.
> 

On my '95 E-10 I have a 270 degree 10K ohm pot.. just dial it up or down.
The only caveat is that it works in the opposite direction of the original
three position switch.

Jim - Glendale, AZ
www.evalbum.com/1703

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web LIVE – Free email based on Microsoft® Exchange technology -
http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for considering my problem. It goes back to the beginning of the summer.
I started having a problem whereby the controller would "cut-out" or stop
working when the regen kicked in. This happened a few times and after a cool
down period of a couple minutes to a few hours it would continue to run
normally, for a while. Then it did this one final time and I had to tow it home.
It has sat (sadly) in my drive ever since. In order to maintain the batteries, I
occasionally get in and run the ACC and then recharge it. Today, I figured I
would just throw it in reverse and see if anything happened. It lurched back 2
feet!!  I was really happy and moved my gas car and tried it again, hoping for a
drive around the block, but it was again dead. This makes me think I'm hitting
some threshold or something. Any ideas?

Thanks again for any suggestions in advance.

Tim
Madison, WI

P.S. for background, it is a '98 Force and when I got it it only had 12
batteries. It worked fine, but I wanted the full capacity, so I put a new
battery in. It was after this that the regen started clicking loudly and the
controller would shut off. I'm very encouraged, now however, that it might not
be totally f'ed...