solectria_ev : Messages : 6722-6751 of 9021

Great thanks, ill take a look at the site. I may however have jumped the gun on
the diagnosis. Not having driven it with lead but going straight to lifepo4. I
may have taken too much weight out of the front of the car. With no batteries in
the front the angle of the cv joint may have increased enough to introduce
phasing into the joints at high speed and under load. At about 50mph it starts.
I have a four day weekend comming up so ill throw 2 or 3 of the dead leads back
into the front box and test with it to see if it changes anything. I just may
have made the front end too light.
dex

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Wolf <wolf@...> wrote:
>
> Found the e-mail. :)
>
> To test the encoders in the motors:
> First disconnect the three phase power connectors, and the 9 pin encoder
> connectors.
>
> Wire up the following to a female DE-9 connector.
> Using four 4.7K resistors solder them from A+(pin 4) A-(pin 3) B+(pin 8)
> B-(pin 7) lines to the 6 volt power line (pin 6).
>
> Apply 6 volts (4 AA batteries will work) from pin 6 to ground (pin 2).
>
> Connect four scope probes to each encoder line (pin 3, 4, 7, and 8), attach
> the scope commons to pin 2.
>
> Next plug this female connector into the male DE-9 encoder connector on the
> motor, then spin the motor by hand.
>
> On the scope A+ and A- should be 180 degrees out of phase with each other,
> (B+ and B- should be 180 degrees out of phase with each other too).
>
> Next comparing the A+ and B+ signals ( or A- and B- signals) they should be
> 90 degrees leading or lagging each other (depends on direction of motor
> rotation).
>
> See:
> http://www.wolftronix.com/E10
> about 1/5th of the way down the page is the encoder repair section with
> videos. :)
>
> Wolf
> *wags his tail*
> www.wolftronix.com
>
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 7:56 AM, dexion111 <dexion111@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > well heck. I searched but didnt find the instructions. Do you remember the
> > subject of your post perhaps I can find them as opposed to the ones in the
> > manual (or a link?) . I did find some pics you did of yours but not the post
> > with instructions.
> >
> > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>, Wolf
> > <wolf@> wrote:
> > >
> > > No, I don't think I wrote that...
> > >
> > > I had posted instructions on how to repair and adjust the gap sensor... I
> > > thought you where referring to those instructions, since you mentioned my
> > > name. :)
> > >
> > > Wolf
> > > *wags his tail*
> > > www.wolftronix.com
> > >
> >  > On Aug 31, 2010 7:25 AM, "dexion111" <dexion111@> wrote:
> > > > I took it from the .pdf in the files section for the 1998 force maint
> > > manual. (Its in the replacing speed sensor disc part (theres a re-gapping
> > > part)) unfortunately its a scan of the manual so I cant copy and paste.
> > Did
> > > you write the manual?
> > > >
> > > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Wolf <wolf@> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Heh, I don't remember what I was thinking when I wrote that... ;)
> > > >>
> > > >> Do you have the rest of the instrucitons?
> > > >> Perhaps I can figure out what I ment, if I have the rest of the
> > context.
> > > :)
> > > >>
> > > >> Wolf
> > > >> *wags his tail*
> > > >> www.wolftronix.com
> > > >>
> > > >> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 7:17 PM, dexion111 <dexion111@> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Howdy,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I am going to re-gap my speed sensor. Ive read the manual, ordered a
> > > >> > plastic gap tool and some silicone. I have looked at the pics wolf
> > > posted of
> > > >> > his speed sensor. But there is one step I just dont understand
> > (perhaps
> > > when
> > > >> > I get it apart it will be aparent.)
> > > >> >
> > > >> > "Line up the speed sensor plate retaining screws parallel to the
> > inner
> > > edge
> > > >> > of the circuit board by turning the drive wheels slightly."
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Does this mean line it up so the screws are not under the sensor
> > plate
> > > but
> > > >> > on the edge of the plate to keep them out of the way? Im a bit
> > > confused.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Thanks
> > > >> > dex
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (12)

#6724

From: "ldr214" <replytome@...>
Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 3:28 pm
Subject: Re: 12 volt unswitched to trunk.

ldr214

Dex the radio in my car is also hot to the clock portion but I don't think the
power on that leg comes from the radio fuse.  My reasoning on that is when I was
changing radios I mistakenly shorted that connection and it destroyed the dimmer
for the dash lighting.  BTW That little dimmer box is rediculiously expensive
via Chevy.  Found a used one.  My recollection is that no fuses were harmed,
just the dimmer.

Mike R
97 Force

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "dexion111" <dexion111@...> wrote:
>
> Ah great thanks ill find that fan power near the charger. Bummer since there
is no light theres no wiring for it. My factory radio was replaced with one
where the clock keeps working unless i pull the pack voltage from the dc-dc
somewhere (car was owned by NYC so perhaps it was stolen heh) it goes to hot.
But id much rather take it from the trunk. The fan power sounds like it will do
fine.
> Thank you very much.
>
> dex
>
> --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ldr214" <replytome@> wrote:
> >
> > On my 97 the rear battery compartment fan is 12V "hot" all the time. The
wiring originaltes behind the original charger location. A small 2 pin molex
which taps off of a larger 4 pin.
> >
> > FWIW my factory radio connection isn't "hot" so you might check that
carefully if you are going to tap that fuse.
> >
> > My trunk light is mounted under the center brake light, activation switch is
next to lower latch hook if that helps.
> >
> > Keep that BMS happy.
> >
> > Mike R
> > 97 Force
> >
> > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "dexion111" <dexion111@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Howdy, I need to get 12 volts to my trunk non-switched for my bms. At the
moment im pulling it from 4 cells but it needs about 3.5AH a week so manually
ploping in 1/2 an amp a day is icky. I dont have a light on my trunk lid but Im
thinking it would have been wired up for one perhaps but I cant so far find the
wire. Anyone know of a hidden/easy to get to 12V source thats on all the time in
the trunk already? I was thinking the vent fan for the batteries may be
unswitched but I havent pulled it off yet to find out. Aside from that ill run
it from the radio fuse I suppose and up the headliner and down into the trunk.
But, i'd feel silly if there was something there already I havent found.
> > > thanks
> > > dex
> > >
> >
>

#6725

From: "dexion111" <dexion111@...>
Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 4:00 pm
Subject: Re: 12 volt unswitched to trunk.

dexion111

Thanks for the heads up. I hate it when they protect a 5 cent fuse with a 50
dollar part. Im gonna dive in an find the power for the fan and hope its live
all the time..and add weight to the front end sheese. heh

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ldr214" <replytome@...> wrote:
>
> Dex the radio in my car is also hot to the clock portion but I don't think the
power on that leg comes from the radio fuse.  My reasoning on that is when I was
changing radios I mistakenly shorted that connection and it destroyed the dimmer
for the dash lighting.  BTW That little dimmer box is rediculiously expensive
via Chevy.  Found a used one.  My recollection is that no fuses were harmed,
just the dimmer.
>
> Mike R
> 97 Force
>
> --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "dexion111" <dexion111@> wrote:
> >
> > Ah great thanks ill find that fan power near the charger. Bummer since there
is no light theres no wiring for it. My factory radio was replaced with one
where the clock keeps working unless i pull the pack voltage from the dc-dc
somewhere (car was owned by NYC so perhaps it was stolen heh) it goes to hot.
But id much rather take it from the trunk. The fan power sounds like it will do
fine.
> > Thank you very much.
> >
> > dex
> >
> > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ldr214" <replytome@> wrote:
> > >
> > > On my 97 the rear battery compartment fan is 12V "hot" all the time. The
wiring originaltes behind the original charger location. A small 2 pin molex
which taps off of a larger 4 pin.
> > >
> > > FWIW my factory radio connection isn't "hot" so you might check that
carefully if you are going to tap that fuse.
> > >
> > > My trunk light is mounted under the center brake light, activation switch
is next to lower latch hook if that helps.
> > >
> > > Keep that BMS happy.
> > >
> > > Mike R
> > > 97 Force
> > >
> > > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "dexion111" <dexion111@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Howdy, I need to get 12 volts to my trunk non-switched for my bms. At
the moment im pulling it from 4 cells but it needs about 3.5AH a week so
manually ploping in 1/2 an amp a day is icky. I dont have a light on my trunk
lid but Im thinking it would have been wired up for one perhaps but I cant so
far find the wire. Anyone know of a hidden/easy to get to 12V source thats on
all the time in the trunk already? I was thinking the vent fan for the batteries
may be unswitched but I havent pulled it off yet to find out. Aside from that
ill run it from the radio fuse I suppose and up the headliner and down into the
trunk. But, i'd feel silly if there was something there already I havent found.
> > > > thanks
> > > > dex
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

#6726

From: "sol2spirit" <sol2spirit@...>
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2010 4:55 am
Subject: Re: 1997 Force with dead charger and pack, need some advice

sol2spirit

Colin,

I would concur with the sentiment that lithiums will be comparable in price to
the Gels.

If you're able to get the 8G27 Gel batteries at $200 each new then that would
amount to $2600 total.
If you use Thundersky or equivalent LiFePO4 at $1.20 per AHr, your cost for 48
cells of 60 AHr cells would be $3456.
I would recommend not going below 60 AHr because the Force can pull up to 200
Amps (at least mine does with the DMOC445 controller) and you don't really want
to get much beyond 3C discharge due to voltage droop.

With regards to the BMS, the most important part is ensuring that the cells
remain in balance. That is, when charging you want to make sure that each cell
does not get above 4.0V (or 3.7V to 3.8V the community seems to be saying). When
discharging, you want to make sure that they don't get below 2.5V (resting
voltage and if you limit to below 3C discharge, then even your operating voltage
shouldn't really get below 2.5V per cell if limiting to 80% depth of discharge).
There are now various single-cell balancers out there between $10 to $20 per
cell that will do the trick. So you might be able to get away with below $720
for the balancers. So your total cost would be around $4176 (and possibly less
if you look around).

I would argue that technically you need a balancer with *any* battery stack
unless you are willing to monitor all cells and individually balance cells when
needed (including Gel batteries). Any battery in series will vary slightly in
impedance and respond differently to charging, discharging, temperature
variations, etc. Either you manually monitor the stack and be prepared to
balance when necessary or you get circuit boards to do it for you.
For simplicity as an example (for the DIYer), the cell balancers by Lee Hart or
Mark Hanson (look on EVDL) work nicely.

Good luck with your project.

Sol

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "d. Bouton Baldridge" <cfrkeepr@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Colin,
>
> Bottom line- yes!
> Right now many of the lithium are going fo about $1.10 -1.20 per AH. Now if
you
> factor the three major  differences: higher voltage,: less weight, more
capacity
> usage you can get greater range on a smaller capacity pack. So before you had
90
> AH gels that maybe gave you at best 50 AH of use or less than 50 miles, that
was
> the best you could do @1-2AH per mile and if you did that every time you drove
> it you'd be really lucky to get more than two years of use out of them at
that
> rate. With the lithum not only do you have less mass to move for the same
>  capacity but you can get greater use of that capacity; both factors
improve
> your range. I chose to match the original range of my force with 40 AH
capacity.
> I am getting pretty much the same range and performance as with  90AH AGMs.
If
> you want greater range then you pay more  but with 48 cells of 40 AH my cost
was
> very little more than new gels a year ago about $3000. and now the price is
even
> lower. I did not put in any BMS and maybe I'll pay for it latter, but so far I
> am getting very impressive results and consistant voltage.  I have
learned so
> much from this experience, it would still be worth the investment if they went
> tomorrow, but with the claims from the manufacturers I think they will last as
> long as the lead and more. I will never go back to lead. 
>
> To wrap things up, you will spend $3000 for the gels and another grand for the
> ng3 for 90AH that will only give you 50AH of use, Why not spend $3200 + the
ng3
> grand for the same range with 50 Ah lifepo4s? . If you like it great, if not
you
> can sell it with the better battery for more. Don't forget EVs are coming and
> some will be competing with yours, who wants to have a Pb EV
anymore?  Nobody.
> These little forces were very high quality innards to very cheap cars, but
they
> are still running and a simple upgrade makes them even better at about the
same
> cost. Good luck, I hope it all works out for you.
> Bouty 
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: colin.nankervis <colin.nankervis@...>
> To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 3:05:08 PM
> Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: 1997 Force with dead charger and pack, need some
> advice
>
>  
> Hi Bouty,
>
> I have been reading about lithium iron phosphate. It seems like a worthwhile
> conversion to do if I were going to keep the car. The expense of the new
> batteries plus the management system on top of the charger make doing the
> conversion unattractive if I am not going to keep the car. The Deka gel
> batteries can be had for around $200-$250 each. Have the prices on lithium
come
> down that far? The last time I priced out lifepo4 pack it was closer to $10k
> than $5k.
>
>
> Considering that I'm between jobs at the moment, I am pressured to liquidate
the
> car. I don't really want to invest any more into it other than what is
> necessary. If I can sell it as-in, I will.
>
>
> I appreciate your input and I may regret selling it later, but this is the
> situation I find myself in now.
>
> -Colin
>
> --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "d. Bouton Baldridge" <cfrkeepr@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Colin,
> > Since you really seem to like the car, and since you are going to all of the
> > trouble to fix it, you might want to reconcider your choice of battery. You
> >have
> >
> > been following the group's activities but you somehow have missed the huge
> > difference by theÂ advent of the Lifepo4 cells. If your new job was too
far for
> >
> > the old batteries you can refit your car with lithium vey easily to get you
> > further for just a little more than your budget.Â TheÂ Force lends
itself to
> >the
> >
> > lithium very well and will weigh less.Â Â  Once you have it upgraded and
you
> >drive
> >
> > it you may decide not to sell, but if you don't you will have a much better
car
> >
> > to sell,
> > FWIW
> >
> > BoutyÂ Â 
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (6)

#6727

From: Kenneth Martin <2kwm@...>
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2010 5:14 am
Subject: Re: Re: Re-gap speed sensor

laminar1314

There was a guy at Green Motors in Berkeley who worked on Solectrias. Might try
to find him if you need more advice. Also, Three Prong Power might have some
leads. They are also in Berkeley.

Ken Martin

On Sep 1, 2010, at 12:05 AM, Charles Bliss wrote:

> Where do you live in the Bay Area? I have done the gapping thing. What
> else does is need?
>
> From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Doug Jackson
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 10:29 PM
> To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Re-gap speed sensor
>
> this is a great description. I have serious questions about the
> encoder on my Force. There are weird things happening especially when
> I back up.
>
> Three years ago when I replaced my gearbox I also had the motor
> maintained. I replaced the encoder disk and set the gap from the
> circuit board led. I had a lot of help and guidance from Mike Brown
> at ElectroAutomotive. I have since moved from Santa Cruz and he is
> now too far away.
>
> There is no way in h*** that I can do what Wolf is describing.
>
> I sure wish I could find somebody in the San Francisco Bay area
> (within driving distance) who can do work on my car. It is ever so
> slowly showing it's age and could use some really knowledgeable tlc.
> I'm looking to get about three more years use out of the car. That's
> why I replaced the batteries last summer.
>
> Still, it's great that around the country there are a few people who
> have the skill to keep these great little ELECTRIC vehicles on the road.
>
> Doug Jackson
> adjackson3.org
>
> On Aug 31, 2010, at 8:13 PM, Wolf wrote:
>
> > Found the e-mail. :)
> >
> > To test the encoders in the motors:
> > First disconnect the three phase power connectors, and the 9 pin
> > encoder
> > connectors.
> >
> > Wire up the following to a female DE-9 connector.
> > Using four 4.7K resistors solder them from A+(pin 4) A-(pin 3) B+
> > (pin 8)
> > B-(pin 7) lines to the 6 volt power line (pin 6).
> >
> > Apply 6 volts (4 AA batteries will work) from pin 6 to ground (pin 2).
> >
> > Connect four scope probes to each encoder line (pin 3, 4, 7, and 8),
> > attach
> > the scope commons to pin 2.
> >
> > Next plug this female connector into the male DE-9 encoder connector
> > on the
> > motor, then spin the motor by hand.
> >
> > On the scope A+ and A- should be 180 degrees out of phase with each
> > other,
> > (B+ and B- should be 180 degrees out of phase with each other too).
> >
> > Next comparing the A+ and B+ signals ( or A- and B- signals) they
> > should be
> > 90 degrees leading or lagging each other (depends on direction of
> > motor
> > rotation).
> >
> > See:
> > http://www.wolftronix.com/E10
> > about 1/5th of the way down the page is the encoder repair section
> > with
> > videos. :)
> >
> > Wolf
> > *wags his tail*
> > www.wolftronix.com
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 7:56 AM, dexion111 <dexion111@...
> <mailto:dexion111%40yahoo.com> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> well heck. I searched but didnt find the instructions. Do you
> >> remember the
> >> subject of your post perhaps I can find them as opposed to the ones
> >> in the
> >> manual (or a link?) . I did find some pics you did of yours but not
> >> the post
> >> with instructions.
> >>
> >> --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com> <solectria_ev
> >> %40yahoogroups.com>, Wolf
> >> <wolf@...> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> No, I don't think I wrote that...
> >>>
> >>> I had posted instructions on how to repair and adjust the gap
> >>> sensor... I
> >>> thought you where referring to those instructions, since you
> >>> mentioned my
> >>> name. :)
> >>>
> >>> Wolf
> >>> *wags his tail*
> >>> www.wolftronix.com
> >>>
> >>> On Aug 31, 2010 7:25 AM, "dexion111" <dexion111@...> wrote:
> >>>> I took it from the .pdf in the files section for the 1998 force
> >>>> maint
> >>> manual. (Its in the replacing speed sensor disc part (theres a re-
> >>> gapping
> >>> part)) unfortunately its a scan of the manual so I cant copy and
> >>> paste.
> >> Did
> >>> you write the manual?
> >>>>
> >>>> --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com> <solectria_ev
> >>>> %40yahoogroups.com>,
> >> Wolf <wolf@> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Heh, I don't remember what I was thinking when I wrote that... ;)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Do you have the rest of the instrucitons?
> >>>>> Perhaps I can figure out what I ment, if I have the rest of the
> >> context.
> >>> :)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Wolf
> >>>>> *wags his tail*
> >>>>> www.wolftronix.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 7:17 PM, dexion111 <dexion111@> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Howdy,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am going to re-gap my speed sensor. Ive read the manual,
> >>>>>> ordered a
> >>>>>> plastic gap tool and some silicone. I have looked at the pics
> >>>>>> wolf
> >>> posted of
> >>>>>> his speed sensor. But there is one step I just dont understand
> >> (perhaps
> >>> when
> >>>>>> I get it apart it will be aparent.)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Line up the speed sensor plate retaining screws parallel to the
> >> inner
> >>> edge
> >>>>>> of the circuit board by turning the drive wheels slightly."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Does this mean line it up so the screws are not under the sensor
> >> plate
> >>> but
> >>>>>> on the edge of the plate to keep them out of the way? Im a bit
> >>> confused.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks
> >>>>>> dex
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Messages in this Topic (12)

#6728

From: "William S" <dbswann4@...>
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2010 10:40 pm
Subject: E-10 switched + 12 volts

dbswann4

Does anyone know where to find the recommended location of the switched + 12
volts for the PS pump motor?
Thanks in advance.

#6729

From: "William S" <dbswann4@...>
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2010 11:41 pm
Subject: Re: E-10 switched + 12 volts

dbswann4

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "William S" <dbswann4@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know where to find the recommended location of the switched + 12
volts for the PS pump motor?
> Thanks in advance.
>

I lose the + 12 v enable signal to the PS pump controller when I turn on the
headlights. The PS pump turns off when I turn on the headlights.

#6730

From: "jlapointe56" <jlapointe@...>
Date: Sun Sep 5, 2010 11:03 am
Subject: thanks Josh G. - can't reply directly to you

jlapointe56

Sorry to post to group but I wanted to thank Josh Goldstein for the reply you
sent. I've tried to reply directly through the listserve and email but they get
bounced back (spam filter).

- Jonas

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#6731

From: "jlapointe56" <jlapointe@...>
Date: Sun Sep 5, 2010 11:06 am
Subject: any citivan owners on this group?

jlapointe56

Wondering if there are any citivan owners on this group? I may have the
opportunity to get one for our school and have some questions about the utility
of the citivan in an non-urban environment. We would have 20 mile round trip
runs to make and some hills (which could be avoided if necessary but lengthen
our trips) of about 35 degrees and 1-1.5 miles long. Thanks.

- Jonas

#6732

From: "reed_bement" <reedb@...>
Date: Mon Sep 6, 2010 7:53 pm
Subject: Motor bearing preload

reed_bement

The following references the "1998 Solectria Force, Motor Drive" photo album. I
removed the motor to fix some long standing encoder issues and discovered the M8
x 1.25 x 25 allen head cap bolt, on the drive end of the rotor shaft was loose.
I think this bolt is supposed to set the motor drive end bearing preload, but I
saw no reference to it in the service manual. Does anyone know how this should
be torqued and if it should have a lock washer or loctite to retain it?

Also the encoder disk was in pretty poor shape. Has anyone made any progress on
making or purchasing these recently?

Thanks,
-Reed

Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)

#6733

From: "jlapointe56" <jlapointe@...>
Date: Mon Sep 6, 2010 11:21 pm
Subject: Re: any citivan owners on this group?

jlapointe56

Sorry for the confusion. It is weird but Solectria also produced a vehicle they
badged "citivan". It was a large commercial roller-door truck. I wasn't looking
for the citicar citivans, but thanks for the helpful links.

- jonas

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "jlapointe56" <jlapointe@...> wrote:
>
> Wondering if there are any citivan owners on this group? I may have the
opportunity to get one for our school and have some questions about the utility
of the citivan in an non-urban environment. We would have 20 mile round trip
runs to make and some hills (which could be avoided if necessary but lengthen
our trips) of about 35 degrees and 1-1.5 miles long. Thanks.
>
> - Jonas
>

#6734

From: Tom Hudson <tdhudson@...>
Date: Tue Sep 7, 2010 3:25 pm
Subject: New charger in my '97 Force

tdhudsonx

Well, after years of patching together my Force's Brusa NLG4 charger (aka
Solectria
BC3300) with parts from other dead chargers, it finally will not resurrect from
the ashes
and I've replaced it with a Brusa NLG5 from MetricMind.

My Force has Saft NiCD batteries and the old NLG4 was customized to work with
those
batteries -- Special dongle-selectable charge profiles to handle initialization,
normal,
fast and maintenance charges, and special temperature sensors.

The NLG5 has some really nice programming features but I still have to break up
the
various charge functions into a couple of different profiles.   One profile
handles
initialization charge only, the other will handle regular charging and periodic
maintenance charging.

The car has been down for several months while I tried to decide on a charging
solution;
it's running the 15-hour initialization charge as I write this.

I can't wait to get it back on the road!

-Tom

--
Thomas Hudson
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power&  More
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects

#6735

From: "dexion111" <dexion111@...>
Date: Wed Sep 8, 2010 1:58 am
Subject: Re: Motor bearing preload

dexion111

Id like a disk or two as well for spares in case I need one.

But looking at it. (I could be way off since I havent taken mine apart yet i've
only seen pictures.) Couldnt one tape off the black triangles, spray it white,
pull the tape and tape off the white and spray it black. Or am I making too
simple an observation? Attention to finish (gloss, matte, flat, etc) would need
to be figured out I suppose.
--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "reed_bement" <reedb@...> wrote:
>
> The following references the "1998 Solectria Force, Motor Drive" photo album.
I removed the motor to fix some long standing encoder issues and discovered the
M8 x 1.25 x 25 allen head cap bolt, on the drive end of the rotor shaft was
loose. I think this bolt is supposed to set the motor drive end bearing preload,
but I saw no reference to it in the service manual. Does anyone know how this
should be torqued and if it should have a lock washer or loctite to retain it?
>
> Also the encoder disk was in pretty poor shape. Has anyone made any progress
on making or purchasing these recently?
>
> Thanks,
> -Reed
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)

#6736

From: "Larry" <lmills187@...>
Date: Wed Sep 8, 2010 8:28 pm
Subject: Re: New charger in my '97 Force

lmills187

Tom,
I am in the process of installing LiFePO4 batteries in my '99 Force.
I also have a BC3300 charger and need to change the charge profile to
a LiFePO4 compatible profile.  I have heard that you can interface to the
charger with a laptop and configure the charge profile.  I assume with the
extensive ex[perience you have had with your BC3300, you could provide me the
details on how to interface and change the charge profile on mine.
Thank You,
Larry
'99 Force ( Sollie)

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Tom Hudson <tdhudson@...> wrote:
>
>   Well, after years of patching together my Force's Brusa NLG4 charger (aka
Solectria
> BC3300) with parts from other dead chargers, it finally will not resurrect
from the ashes
> and I've replaced it with a Brusa NLG5 from MetricMind.
>
> My Force has Saft NiCD batteries and the old NLG4 was customized to work with
those
> batteries -- Special dongle-selectable charge profiles to handle
initialization, normal,
> fast and maintenance charges, and special temperature sensors.
>
> The NLG5 has some really nice programming features but I still have to break
up the
> various charge functions into a couple of different profiles.   One profile
handles
> initialization charge only, the other will handle regular charging and
periodic
> maintenance charging.
>
> The car has been down for several months while I tried to decide on a charging
solution;
> it's running the 15-hour initialization charge as I write this.
>
> I can't wait to get it back on the road!
>
> -Tom
>
> --
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power&  More
> http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
>

#6737

From: Tom Hudson <tdhudson@...>
Date: Thu Sep 9, 2010 3:32 am
Subject: Re: Re: New charger in my '97 Force

tdhudsonx

Larry, you'll want to go to http://www.brusa.biz/e_software.htm and download
the NLG4xx
Programming Software, "nlg_e.exe".  This is a DOS PC program, not Windows; The
software
isn't as intuitive as the newer NLG5 software but it gets the job done.

You'll need to know a number of things about the batteries you're charging,
including
temperature derating (reduction of charge current as the battery temperature
rises) and
then you can program the various stages of the charge sequence.

Feel free to contact me off list if you have questions.  I'm looking forward to
seeing how
these batteries work out for you and will be happy to help you get up and
running if I can.

-Tom

On 9/8/2010 3:28 PM, Larry wrote:
>
> Tom,
> I am in the process of installing LiFePO4 batteries in my '99 Force.
> I also have a BC3300 charger and need to change the charge profile to
> a LiFePO4 compatible profile. I have heard that you can interface to the
charger with a
> laptop and configure the charge profile. I assume with the extensive
ex[perience you
> have had with your BC3300, you could provide me the details on how to
interface and
> change the charge profile on mine.
> Thank You,
> Larry
> '99 Force ( Sollie)
>

--
Thomas Hudson
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power&  More
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#6738

From: "Charles Bliss" <cbliss@...>
Date: Thu Sep 9, 2010 3:48 am
Subject: RE: Re: New charger in my '97 Force

ckbliss49

Question on the NLG4 or the Bursa chargers in general; With Lithium
batteries, the goal is to have them hooked up to a BMS system.  There are
several to choose from.  Those systems like to talk to the charger and cycle
it so none of the batteries are overcharged but all will eventually get a
full charge.  Is there a way of controlling the NLGx chargers from the BMS
systems?

From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Tom Hudson
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:33 PM
To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: New charger in my '97 Force

Larry, you'll want to go to http://www.brusa.biz/e_software.htm and download
the NLG4xx
Programming Software, "nlg_e.exe". This is a DOS PC program, not Windows;
The software
isn't as intuitive as the newer NLG5 software but it gets the job done.

You'll need to know a number of things about the batteries you're charging,
including
temperature derating (reduction of charge current as the battery temperature
rises) and
then you can program the various stages of the charge sequence.

Feel free to contact me off list if you have questions. I'm looking forward
to seeing how
these batteries work out for you and will be happy to help you get up and
running if I can.

-Tom

On 9/8/2010 3:28 PM, Larry wrote:
>
> Tom,
> I am in the process of installing LiFePO4 batteries in my '99 Force.
> I also have a BC3300 charger and need to change the charge profile to
> a LiFePO4 compatible profile. I have heard that you can interface to the
charger with a
> laptop and configure the charge profile. I assume with the extensive
ex[perience you
> have had with your BC3300, you could provide me the details on how to
interface and
> change the charge profile on mine.
> Thank You,
> Larry
> '99 Force ( Sollie)
>

--
Thomas Hudson
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power& More
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#6739

From: Tom Hudson <tdhudson@...>
Date: Thu Sep 9, 2010 1:57 pm
Subject: Re: Re: New charger in my '97 Force

tdhudsonx

Good question.

The NLG4 really doesn't have that kind of design, though there are two external
inputs you
can program it to monitor -- You could build an interface between it and the BMS
that
would set one input high when it wanted power or low when it wanted the charger
to stop.
That could be all you need, but it wouldn't let you throttle the power much.

The NLG5 is built to work with CAN-type control systems; it may be more
appropriate
depending on the BMS you're using, and easier to interface as well, with no
custom
hardware required.

And frankly, speaking from personal experience in trying to keep these 1995-era
NLG4
chargers working for the last 13 years, I can't see spending a lot of time
working on
custom hardware for a device that is so prone to failure, and difficult to fix
when it
does fail.  Brusa can't even provide us with schematics; they sold the rights to
a company
in Europe that won't return emails.  :-(

-Tom

On 9/8/2010 10:48 PM, Charles Bliss wrote:
>
> Question on the NLG4 or the Bursa chargers in general; With Lithium
> batteries, the goal is to have them hooked up to a BMS system. There are
> several to choose from. Those systems like to talk to the charger and cycle
> it so none of the batteries are overcharged but all will eventually get a
> full charge. Is there a way of controlling the NLGx chargers from the BMS
> systems?
>
> From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>]
On
> Behalf Of Tom Hudson
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:33 PM
> To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: New charger in my '97 Force
>
> Larry, you'll want to go to http://www.brusa.biz/e_software.htm and download
> the NLG4xx
> Programming Software, "nlg_e.exe". This is a DOS PC program, not Windows;
> The software
> isn't as intuitive as the newer NLG5 software but it gets the job done.
>
> You'll need to know a number of things about the batteries you're charging,
> including
> temperature derating (reduction of charge current as the battery temperature
> rises) and
> then you can program the various stages of the charge sequence.
>
> Feel free to contact me off list if you have questions. I'm looking forward
> to seeing how
> these batteries work out for you and will be happy to help you get up and
> running if I can.
>
> -Tom
>
> On 9/8/2010 3:28 PM, Larry wrote:
> >
> > Tom,
> > I am in the process of installing LiFePO4 batteries in my '99 Force.
> > I also have a BC3300 charger and need to change the charge profile to
> > a LiFePO4 compatible profile. I have heard that you can interface to the
> charger with a
> > laptop and configure the charge profile. I assume with the extensive
> ex[perience you
> > have had with your BC3300, you could provide me the details on how to
> interface and
> > change the charge profile on mine.
> > Thank You,
> > Larry
> > '99 Force ( Sollie)
> >
>
> --
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power& More
> http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

--
Thomas Hudson
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power&  More
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#6740

From: Tom Hudson <tdhudson@...>
Date: Thu Sep 9, 2010 2:02 pm
Subject: Re: Re: New charger in my '97 Force

tdhudsonx

Oops.  Left off the last paragraph to clarify:

If I was putting in a new pack like the Lithium Ions, with a BMS, I'd get a BMS
with CAN
interfacing and change over to the NLG5.

The NLG4 was the Cadillac of battery chargers in its day but even Cadillacs get
old and
wear out.

-Tom


On 9/8/2010 10:48 PM, Charles Bliss wrote:
>
> Question on the NLG4 or the Bursa chargers in general; With Lithium
> batteries, the goal is to have them hooked up to a BMS system. There are
> several to choose from. Those systems like to talk to the charger and cycle
> it so none of the batteries are overcharged but all will eventually get a
> full charge. Is there a way of controlling the NLGx chargers from the BMS
> systems?
>
> From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>]
On
> Behalf Of Tom Hudson
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:33 PM
> To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com <mailto:solectria_ev%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: New charger in my '97 Force
>
> Larry, you'll want to go to http://www.brusa.biz/e_software.htm and download
> the NLG4xx
> Programming Software, "nlg_e.exe". This is a DOS PC program, not Windows;
> The software
> isn't as intuitive as the newer NLG5 software but it gets the job done.
>
> You'll need to know a number of things about the batteries you're charging,
> including
> temperature derating (reduction of charge current as the battery temperature
> rises) and
> then you can program the various stages of the charge sequence.
>
> Feel free to contact me off list if you have questions. I'm looking forward
> to seeing how
> these batteries work out for you and will be happy to help you get up and
> running if I can.
>
> -Tom
>
> On 9/8/2010 3:28 PM, Larry wrote:
> >
> > Tom,
> > I am in the process of installing LiFePO4 batteries in my '99 Force.
> > I also have a BC3300 charger and need to change the charge profile to
> > a LiFePO4 compatible profile. I have heard that you can interface to the
> charger with a
> > laptop and configure the charge profile. I assume with the extensive
> ex[perience you
> > have had with your BC3300, you could provide me the details on how to
> interface and
> > change the charge profile on mine.
> > Thank You,
> > Larry
> > '99 Force ( Sollie)
> >
>
> --
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power& More
> http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

--
Thomas Hudson
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power&  More
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#6741

From: "ldr214" <replytome@...>
Date: Thu Sep 9, 2010 7:45 pm
Subject: Re: New charger in my '97 Force

ldr214

Some of the simple BMS applications simply control a power input "box" and cut
off the 240V source to the charger if they detect a high cell voltage.  Just
about any charger would adapt to that.  I think a couple of members are using
something of that nature with the NG3 by Zivan.  My guess, if you can use a NG3
you can certainly use a Brusa.

Mike R
97 Force

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Bliss" <cbliss@...> wrote:
>
> Question on the NLG4 or the Bursa chargers in general; With Lithium
> batteries, the goal is to have them hooked up to a BMS system.  There are
> several to choose from.  Those systems like to talk to the charger and cycle
> it so none of the batteries are overcharged but all will eventually get a
> full charge.  Is there a way of controlling the NLGx chargers from the BMS
> systems?
>
>
>
> From: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com [mailto:solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Tom Hudson
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:33 PM
> To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: New charger in my '97 Force
>
>
>
>
>
> Larry, you'll want to go to http://www.brusa.biz/e_software.htm and download
> the NLG4xx
> Programming Software, "nlg_e.exe". This is a DOS PC program, not Windows;
> The software
> isn't as intuitive as the newer NLG5 software but it gets the job done.
>
> You'll need to know a number of things about the batteries you're charging,
> including
> temperature derating (reduction of charge current as the battery temperature
> rises) and
> then you can program the various stages of the charge sequence.
>
> Feel free to contact me off list if you have questions. I'm looking forward
> to seeing how
> these batteries work out for you and will be happy to help you get up and
> running if I can.
>
> -Tom
>
> On 9/8/2010 3:28 PM, Larry wrote:
> >
> > Tom,
> > I am in the process of installing LiFePO4 batteries in my '99 Force.
> > I also have a BC3300 charger and need to change the charge profile to
> > a LiFePO4 compatible profile. I have heard that you can interface to the
> charger with a
> > laptop and configure the charge profile. I assume with the extensive
> ex[perience you
> > have had with your BC3300, you could provide me the details on how to
> interface and
> > change the charge profile on mine.
> > Thank You,
> > Larry
> > '99 Force ( Sollie)
> >
>
> --
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power& More
> http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

#6742

From: "Dan" <sbdeadelf@...>
Date: Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:36 am
Subject: Encoder/motor/general maintenance questions- Newish member

sbdeadelf

Hi,
I'm basically new here.  I picked up Stephen Taylor's Red Stripe NiCad car a few
months ago.  The car is in great shape- probably even better than he described-
and I'm very happy to have one of these cars.
Here's what I'm wondering:  At about 30K miles, I'm noticing the slight surging
or shuddering that seems to indicate encoder gap issues.  Am I right that it
would be a really good idea to take the motor in and get new bearings and
whatever else is in there for the sake of keeping the gap steady and not messing
up my encoder wheel?
Regenerative braking is awesome at 25mph and below, but noticeably weaker above
30- is that a symptom of encoder issues or is that normal?
And for the other NiCad folks out there- has anyone tried putting a temperature
sensor and gauge in the cooling system for the batteries?  I've been a bit
tempted to put a sensor at the radiator and another amongst either set of
batteries.  Anyone tried it?  Good idea?  Bad idea?
Thanks in advance,
Dan

Reply | Messages in this Topic (4)

#6743

From: "jwolfe@..." <jwolfe@...>
Date: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:05 am
Subject: RE:Charger software

evpilot

> Behalf Of Tom Hudson
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:33 PM
> To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: New charger in my '97 Force
>
> Larry, you'll want to go to http://www.brusa.biz/e_software.htm and
download
> the NLG4xx
> Programming Software, "nlg_e.exe". This is a DOS PC program, not Windows;
> The software
> isn't as intuitive as the newer NLG5 software but it gets the job done.
>
> You'll need to know a number of things about the batteries you're
charging,
> including
> temperature derating (reduction of charge current as the battery
temperature
> rises) and
> then you can program the various stages of the charge sequence.
>
Tom,

I have a NG5 charger in my E-10, (230V - 32A), and would like to
check/tweak the charge profile. Do you know if this will work with my NG5
also?

I always assumed that the NLG5 was a Low voltage 120V version but I'm not
that familiar with these chargers and I can't seem to find any reference to
the NG5.

Thanks,

Jim - Glendale, AZ

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web.com � What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you?
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#6744

From: Tom Hudson <tdhudson@...>
Date: Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:12 am
Subject: Re: RE:Charger software

tdhudsonx

Jim, are you referring to the Zivan NG5?  If so, that's a completely different
charger.
I'm talking about a Brusa NLG5 (yes, it's confusing).  If it's an Brusa NLG5,
Brusa has
software for it on their website (same place as the NLG4 software download).

-Tom

On 9/9/2010 8:05 PM, jwolfe@... wrote:
>
>
> Tom,
>
> I have a NG5 charger in my E-10, (230V - 32A), and would like to
> check/tweak the charge profile. Do you know if this will work with my NG5
> also?
>
> I always assumed that the NLG5 was a Low voltage 120V version but I'm not
> that familiar with these chargers and I can't seem to find any reference to
> the NG5.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim - Glendale, AZ
>

--
Thomas Hudson
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power&  More
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#6745

From: "dexion111" <dexion111@...>
Date: Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:05 am
Subject: pots, parts and stuff

dexion111

Howdy,

While trying to find spare parts to put on a shelf in case of need. I pulled
apart my pot box and found a Clarostat 6214970 20 9751 pot. This a Log 5K pot
with a 25K life. So, I figured I would buy a few spares at a few bucks each. The
issue is I cant find anything to match it. Honeywell bought them out and the
numbers dont match. It doesnt really look like anything special and perhaps any
3 output log pot at 5K will work, but you never know. Has anyone replaced their
force pot with something (and do you have a modern part number?)

That got me thinking. What about controllers, motors, bearings, dc to dc etc.
Are these parts available any more (aside from used on ebay from time to time?)
I checked the links section and really didnt find anything listed on the sites
any more.

Is there a source available or do they just not break much so no one has needed
much.

I dont need anything yet but it would be ashame to have the car sit for the want
of a speed sensor disk or bearing.


I suppose I could make whats need or repair a bad controller but spares would be
nice too.

http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/price-pts.shtml#adkits used to have stuff
listed (like cv joints/axles, motor controller etc but they have removed them.)

Thanks
dex

#6746

From: "William S" <dbswann4@...>
Date: Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:30 am
Subject: Re: pots, parts and stuff

dbswann4

I am curious what the purpose of a Logarithmic pot is. In a linear pot, I assume
the Vout is linear with accelerator position. What is the shape of the curve
with a LOG pot. Is it concave down? Is it fast response initially? What is the
design criteria?

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "dexion111" <dexion111@...> wrote:
>
> Howdy,
>
> While trying to find spare parts to put on a shelf in case of need. I pulled
apart my pot box and found a Clarostat 6214970 20 9751 pot. This a Log 5K pot
with a 25K life. So, I figured I would buy a few spares at a few bucks each. The
issue is I cant find anything to match it. Honeywell bought them out and the
numbers dont match. It doesnt really look like anything special and perhaps any
3 output log pot at 5K will work, but you never know. Has anyone replaced their
force pot with something (and do you have a modern part number?)
>
> That got me thinking. What about controllers, motors, bearings, dc to dc etc.
Are these parts available any more (aside from used on ebay from time to time?)
I checked the links section and really didnt find anything listed on the sites
any more.
>
> Is there a source available or do they just not break much so no one has
needed much.
>
> I dont need anything yet but it would be ashame to have the car sit for the
want of a speed sensor disk or bearing.
>
>
> I suppose I could make whats need or repair a bad controller but spares would
be nice too.
>
> http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/price-pts.shtml#adkits used to have stuff
listed (like cv joints/axles, motor controller etc but they have removed them.)
>
> Thanks
> dex
>

#6747

From: "dexion111" <dexion111@...>
Date: Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:40 am
Subject: Re: pots, parts and stuff

dexion111

A log has a slow rising curve at the beginning and then it goes fast. A reverse
log is well, the reverse. so perhaps 120Deg of a 270deg pot is 0-475Ohms then
the other 150deg is 500-5Kohm.


Here you go: http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/potsecrets/potscret.htm

everything you always wanted to know about pots but were afraid to ask.

dex



--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "William S" <dbswann4@...> wrote:
>
> I am curious what the purpose of a Logarithmic pot is. In a linear pot, I
assume the Vout is linear with accelerator position. What is the shape of the
curve with a LOG pot. Is it concave down? Is it fast response initially? What is
the design criteria?
>
> --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "dexion111" <dexion111@> wrote:
> >
> > Howdy,
> >
> > While trying to find spare parts to put on a shelf in case of need. I pulled
apart my pot box and found a Clarostat 6214970 20 9751 pot. This a Log 5K pot
with a 25K life. So, I figured I would buy a few spares at a few bucks each. The
issue is I cant find anything to match it. Honeywell bought them out and the
numbers dont match. It doesnt really look like anything special and perhaps any
3 output log pot at 5K will work, but you never know. Has anyone replaced their
force pot with something (and do you have a modern part number?)
> >
> > That got me thinking. What about controllers, motors, bearings, dc to dc
etc. Are these parts available any more (aside from used on ebay from time to
time?) I checked the links section and really didnt find anything listed on the
sites any more.
> >
> > Is there a source available or do they just not break much so no one has
needed much.
> >
> > I dont need anything yet but it would be ashame to have the car sit for the
want of a speed sensor disk or bearing.
> >
> >
> > I suppose I could make whats need or repair a bad controller but spares
would be nice too.
> >
> > http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/price-pts.shtml#adkits used to have stuff
listed (like cv joints/axles, motor controller etc but they have removed them.)
> >
> > Thanks
> > dex
> >
>

#6748

From: Bill or Dorothy Swann <dbswann4@...>
Date: Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:52 am
Subject: Re: Re: pots, parts and stuff

dbswann4

Thanks. What is the relation between pot voltage and controller speed. Is it
linear? If so, then the sensitivity to pot position and vehicle speed is less at
slow speeds when the motor has more torque, and more sensitive at higher RPM's,
then the motor has less torque. Is this the reason for having a log pot? Concave
down.

  Thanks,Bill S





________________________________
From: dexion111 <dexion111@...>
To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, September 14, 2010 8:40:27 PM
Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: pots, parts and stuff


A log has a slow rising curve at the beginning and then it goes fast. A reverse
log is well, the reverse. so perhaps 120Deg of a 270deg pot is 0-475Ohms then
the other 150deg is 500-5Kohm.

Here you go: http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/potsecrets/potscret.htm

everything you always wanted to know about pots but were afraid to ask.

dex

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "William S" <dbswann4@...> wrote:
>
> I am curious what the purpose of a Logarithmic pot is. In a linear pot, I
>assume the Vout is linear with accelerator position. What is the shape of the
>curve with a LOG pot. Is it concave down? Is it fast response initially? What
is
>the design criteria?
>
> --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "dexion111" <dexion111@> wrote:
> >
> > Howdy,
> >
> > While trying to find spare parts to put on a shelf in case of need. I pulled
>apart my pot box and found a Clarostat 6214970 20 9751 pot. This a Log 5K pot
>with a 25K life. So, I figured I would buy a few spares at a few bucks each.
The
>issue is I cant find anything to match it. Honeywell bought them out and the
>numbers dont match. It doesnt really look like anything special and perhaps any
>3 output log pot at 5K will work, but you never know. Has anyone replaced their
>force pot with something (and do you have a modern part number?)
>
> >
> > That got me thinking. What about controllers, motors, bearings, dc to dc
etc.
>Are these parts available any more (aside from used on ebay from time to time?)
>I checked the links section and really didnt find anything listed on the sites
>any more.
>
> >
> > Is there a source available or do they just not break much so no one has
>needed much.
>
> >
> > I dont need anything yet but it would be ashame to have the car sit for the
>want of a speed sensor disk or bearing.
> >
> >
> > I suppose I could make whats need or repair a bad controller but spares
would
>be nice too.
> >
> > http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/price-pts.shtml#adkits used to have stuff
>listed (like cv joints/axles, motor controller etc but they have removed them.)
> >
> > Thanks
> > dex
> >
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#6749

From: "dexion111" <dexion111@...>
Date: Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:24 pm
Subject: Re: pots, parts and stuff

dexion111

Having come from the dc side of things (this is my first ac motor/controller.)
All I can do is tell you how it works in my dc conversions. It could work
exactly the same way and I would assume it does since it works and is
easy/cheap. Think of the pot as a throttle feedback loop. More pot = more speed.
As you start off you want smooth take off and then accelerate to speed. In the
dc world you can do this with changing the duty cycle of the controller (so it
divides (it doesnt really but thats the end result) your pot input say by 100 so
you are really giving very little pedal. Once x speed is reached then the duty
cycle goes back up (from say 1khz to 16khz) and off you go. Or do it with the
pot the first part is a small percentage of the total resistance of the pot so
you take off smooth then it increases so you have power at speed. Really its so
you take off smoothly and slowly in the non-dutycycle senario and from what I
can tell of our ac controllers same deal.

I think you may actually be asking why at 35 mph or so does acceleration start
to drop off is that related to the pot(even at full throttle) (or I could be
reading it wrong i suppose.) That has to do with the torque curve of an ac (or
really any) motor. At a given voltage torque is constant in an electric motor
until x rpm. X and V being variables. So in the case of our forces at about 160V
torque is constant (or 100% assuming we have the amps from our batterys to
provide the motor) up to about 4500 rpms then it starts to drop off (in a dc
motor its when the back emf starts to equal the power into the motor.) So given
about 1000 rpms per 7mph based on our gearing of 10:1 (assuming you have the
gearbox version) 35mph is 5000rpms and you have less torque available from the
motor.

dex

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Bill or Dorothy Swann <dbswann4@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks. What is the relation between pot voltage and controller speed. Is it
> linear? If so, then the sensitivity to pot position and vehicle speed is less
at
> slow speeds when the motor has more torque, and more sensitive at higher
RPM's,
> then the motor has less torque. Is this the reason for having a log pot?
Concave
> down.
>
>  Thanks,Bill S
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: dexion111 <dexion111@...>
> To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, September 14, 2010 8:40:27 PM
> Subject: [solectria_ev] Re: pots, parts and stuff
>
>
> A log has a slow rising curve at the beginning and then it goes fast. A
reverse
> log is well, the reverse. so perhaps 120Deg of a 270deg pot is 0-475Ohms then
> the other 150deg is 500-5Kohm.
>
> Here you go: http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/potsecrets/potscret.htm
>
> everything you always wanted to know about pots but were afraid to ask.
>
> dex
>
> --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "William S" <dbswann4@> wrote:
> >
> > I am curious what the purpose of a Logarithmic pot is. In a linear pot, I
> >assume the Vout is linear with accelerator position. What is the shape of the
> >curve with a LOG pot. Is it concave down? Is it fast response initially? What
is
> >the design criteria?
> >
> > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "dexion111" <dexion111@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Howdy,
> > >
> > > While trying to find spare parts to put on a shelf in case of need. I
pulled
> >apart my pot box and found a Clarostat 6214970 20 9751 pot. This a Log 5K pot
> >with a 25K life. So, I figured I would buy a few spares at a few bucks each.
The
> >issue is I cant find anything to match it. Honeywell bought them out and the
> >numbers dont match. It doesnt really look like anything special and perhaps
any
> >3 output log pot at 5K will work, but you never know. Has anyone replaced
their
> >force pot with something (and do you have a modern part number?)
> >
> > >
> > > That got me thinking. What about controllers, motors, bearings, dc to dc
etc.
> >Are these parts available any more (aside from used on ebay from time to
time?)
> >I checked the links section and really didnt find anything listed on the
sites
> >any more.
> >
> > >
> > > Is there a source available or do they just not break much so no one has
> >needed much.
> >
> > >
> > > I dont need anything yet but it would be ashame to have the car sit for
the
> >want of a speed sensor disk or bearing.
> > >
> > >
> > > I suppose I could make whats need or repair a bad controller but spares
would
> >be nice too.
> > >
> > > http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/price-pts.shtml#adkits used to have
stuff
> >listed (like cv joints/axles, motor controller etc but they have removed
them.)
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > dex
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

#6750

From: "ldr214" <replytome@...>
Date: Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:58 pm
Subject: Re: Encoder/motor/general maintenance questions- Newish member

ldr214

Dan,
Regen is stronger the slower you go.  It is pretty much a reverse of the power
curve on the Force.  How much regen the cars have vary slightly by vehicle. 
Problably minor differences in programs over the production run and the use of a
few different controllers.  If you want to feel how much "energy" regen stops
the car with at low speed try pushing it by hand with regen on from a full stop.

A slight "surge" or sort of like a "lean burn" feeling in a gas car is also
something that happens at some speeds under low power.  Not sure if that is what
you are talking about with regards to "slight surge or shudder."  In my car this
seems to be controller/voltage related and more noticeable as the voltage sags. 
I can also get rid of it by going from  "normal" to econ on my power selector or
by increasing the power.  In my mind that pretty much rules out the encoder.  My
car has done this since I acquired it in 04 and over 20,000 miles with no
perceptable change.

Mike R
97 Force pba

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Dan" <sbdeadelf@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I'm basically new here.  I picked up Stephen Taylor's Red Stripe NiCad car a
few months ago.  The car is in great shape- probably even better than he
described- and I'm very happy to have one of these cars.
> Here's what I'm wondering:  At about 30K miles, I'm noticing the slight
surging or shuddering that seems to indicate encoder gap issues.  Am I right
that it would be a really good idea to take the motor in and get new bearings
and whatever else is in there for the sake of keeping the gap steady and not
messing up my encoder wheel?
> Regenerative braking is awesome at 25mph and below, but noticeably weaker
above 30- is that a symptom of encoder issues or is that normal?
> And for the other NiCad folks out there- has anyone tried putting a
temperature sensor and gauge in the cooling system for the batteries?  I've been
a bit tempted to put a sensor at the radiator and another amongst either set of
batteries.  Anyone tried it?  Good idea?  Bad idea?
> Thanks in advance,
> Dan
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (4)

#6751

From: Jay Grossman <jgrossm3@...>
Date: Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:52 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Encoder/motor/general maintenance questions- Newish member

jgrossm3