Seeking any advice today on my malfunctioning charger before I give up and
ship it Solectria by Fed Ex tonight and end up paying lots of money for a
rental car for 4 weeks while I wait for Solectria to fix the charger.
Particularly if someone knows where I could get a new charger for my Force.


I talked through the problem with Solectria and they said it probably needs
to be fixed and cannot be replaced because they have stopped making the
black box charger type I have.  They know of no other charger that could
replace this one and so it basically has to be repaired not replaced.  The
charger is on my 1999 Solectria Force.  I have 14,000 miles on it and I have
had it for 2.5 years.  This is not the original charger because that one
died only 1 week after I bought the car.  It's Electric, the dealership
which is now out of business, came down and gave me a replacement charger
which is what is in the car.

The charger works when I plug it into a 220 outlet but it does not work
anymore when I plug it into a 110 outlet.  There is only one person at
Solectria who fixes this charger, Kevin, and he is backlogged so I will
probably be without a car for 4 weeks which could mean me having to spend
$$$ on a rental car.  Ugggg.  The Force is my first car and only car.

The charger fan does spin when plugged into a 110 outlet but does so
intermittantly and the batteries do not get charged in the process.  The top
red light to the side of the charger blinks when plugged in and the yellow
light also flashes which are both a bad sign explained Kevin.

One of the selling points I like to tell people is the EVs require less
maintenance and have fewer problems.  I still basically believe this is true
but my experience has been bad.  My first charger died after one week.  Then
my brakes failed after 1 year when a switch on the vacuum pump broke.  And
now the replacement charger has died.  Having the car go fully out of
commission 3 times in only 14,000 miles is a bummer especially if this time
it's out for a month.

Kevin also suggested that what probably dammaged the charger was the fact
that I've used only 110v for about 9 months for my charging and that this
causes the charger to work twice as hard and may overheat some diodes.  This
makes sense I wanted to share this in case others are using 110v mainly.  I
knew this was generally bad for the car but could never get an answer from
anyone as to exactly how this was bad or what dammage it would do.  Faced
with quotes of $800 to install a 220 outlet I decided to just use 110v for a
while.

I'll send a separate message about a related warranty problem.

Peter

-------------------------------------
Peter Belden
Palo Alto, CA
408-887-0251

Peter,

Keep in mind that I still do have the charger I borrowed form Otmar and
I expect he would be happy to loan it to you as well.  It is only 110vac
but it will keep you on the road while your charger is away.

-Will

Will Beckett
Beckett PC Solutions
4189 Baker Ave.
Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908

(650) 269-7011 cell
(650) 494-6922 phone/fax
will@...
http://beckettpcsolutions.com

Holiday Special! Complete computer system setup so you don't have to
spend the day installing and configuring your new computer.  Let me make
it easy for you!



-----Original Message-----
From: Belden, Peter [mailto:pbelden@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 12:52 PM
To: 'force_ev@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [force_ev] quick question: charger is dead
Importance: High


Seeking any advice today on my malfunctioning charger before I give up
and ship it Solectria by Fed Ex tonight and end up paying lots of money
for a rental car for 4 weeks while I wait for Solectria to fix the
charger. Particularly if someone knows where I could get a new charger
for my Force.


I talked through the problem with Solectria and they said it probably
needs to be fixed and cannot be replaced because they have stopped
making the black box charger type I have.  They know of no other charger
that could replace this one and so it basically has to be repaired not
replaced.  The charger is on my 1999 Solectria Force.  I have 14,000
miles on it and I have had it for 2.5 years.  This is not the original
charger because that one died only 1 week after I bought the car.  It's
Electric, the dealership which is now out of business, came down and
gave me a replacement charger which is what is in the car.

The charger works when I plug it into a 220 outlet but it does not work
anymore when I plug it into a 110 outlet.  There is only one person at
Solectria who fixes this charger, Kevin, and he is backlogged so I will
probably be without a car for 4 weeks which could mean me having to
spend $$$ on a rental car.  Ugggg.  The Force is my first car and only
car.

The charger fan does spin when plugged into a 110 outlet but does so
intermittantly and the batteries do not get charged in the process.  The
top red light to the side of the charger blinks when plugged in and the
yellow light also flashes which are both a bad sign explained Kevin.

One of the selling points I like to tell people is the EVs require less
maintenance and have fewer problems.  I still basically believe this is
true but my experience has been bad.  My first charger died after one
week.  Then my brakes failed after 1 year when a switch on the vacuum
pump broke.  And now the replacement charger has died.  Having the car
go fully out of commission 3 times in only 14,000 miles is a bummer
especially if this time it's out for a month.

Kevin also suggested that what probably dammaged the charger was the
fact that I've used only 110v for about 9 months for my charging and
that this causes the charger to work twice as hard and may overheat some
diodes.  This makes sense I wanted to share this in case others are
using 110v mainly.  I knew this was generally bad for the car but could
never get an answer from anyone as to exactly how this was bad or what
dammage it would do.  Faced with quotes of $800 to install a 220 outlet
I decided to just use 110v for a while.

I'll send a separate message about a related warranty problem.

Peter

-------------------------------------
Peter Belden
Palo Alto, CA
408-887-0251


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On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Belden, Peter wrote:

> The charger works when I plug it into a 220 outlet but it does not work
> anymore when I plug it into a 110 outlet.

Was the charger designed to work on both 110 and 220? Do you have to flip
a switch to tell it which volage to expect?

> Kevin also suggested that what probably dammaged the charger was the fact
> that I've used only 110v for about 9 months for my charging and that this
> causes the charger to work twice as hard and may overheat some diodes.

If the charger was indeed intended for 110v this might be a design flaw.
If you do send it back, you might ask him to replace those diodes with
ones that can handle more current.

> This makes sense I wanted to share this in case others are using 110v
> mainly.

Well, I'm using 110v exclusively, but I have an older (92) Force and
use a Zivan NG-3 charger.


Rob Landry
umarc@...

I expect that what happened was that one side went out.  The reason it
will charge on 220vac is because only half the charger is in use.  This
is the way the charger is designed.  It is really two 110vac charger
that are put together.  Frequently one side or the other will fail
rather than the whole charger.  You can tell by the flashing rate of the
green light and the count down of amp hours if it is really charging
with both or only one side.

- Will

Will Beckett

Contact information ( <https://ecardfile.com/id/will_beckett>
https://ecardfile.com/id/will_beckett)

Become a member or donate to the Electric Auto Association, donations
are tax deductible.  <http://eaaev.org/eaamembership.html>
http://eaaev.org/eaamembership.html




-----Original Message-----
From: umarc@... [mailto:umarc@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 4:12 PM
To: 'force_ev@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: Re: [force_ev] quick question: charger is dead


On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Belden, Peter wrote:

> The charger works when I plug it into a 220 outlet but it does not
work
> anymore when I plug it into a 110 outlet.

Was the charger designed to work on both 110 and 220? Do you have to
flip
a switch to tell it which volage to expect?

> Kevin also suggested that what probably dammaged the charger was the
fact
> that I've used only 110v for about 9 months for my charging and that
this
> causes the charger to work twice as hard and may overheat some diodes.

If the charger was indeed intended for 110v this might be a design flaw.
If you do send it back, you might ask him to replace those diodes with
ones that can handle more current.

> This makes sense I wanted to share this in case others are using 110v
> mainly.

Well, I'm using 110v exclusively, but I have an older (92) Force and
use a Zivan NG-3 charger.


Rob Landry
umarc@...




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There are an number of Solar Home tours going on tomorrow and on later
days. Some of these homes have electric vehicles. If you're interested
check out these links and find the tour near you.

The one I'm doing, San Jose, CA - I've got an EV1... for three
months anyway... before GM rips it away from me:
http://www.madkatz.com/pv/tour2002/

Northern CA tours:
http://www.norcalsolar.org/tour/

Nationwide also lists CA tours in southern CA and some not on norcalsolar
site:
http://www.ases.org/hometr/index.html
Note these listings, especially CA, aren't complete since their web
provider has database problems they refuse to fix.... :-(

A few EV + PV = Zero pollution drivers:
http://www.madkatz.com/pv/tzevdrivers.html

Later,          "A rainbow is only part of a circle." San Joser, CA
      ^ ^        Software Consultants:        http://www.migration.com/
      O o        Permanent:                   m.t.thompson@...
   ===-o-===     My catbox:                   http://www.madkatz.com/
Ack! Phththpph!

2001 Clean Air Champion http://www.baaqmd.gov/pie/press/cachamp01.pdf

My True Zero Emission Vehicle (TZEV) GM EV1 and my home are powered
by the 100% renewable, Zero Emissions Electricity (ZEE) 30kWh/day
Solar Electric (PV) system on my roof which will pay for itself in
about 6 years, 12% annualized return on investment:
http://www.madkatz.com/pv/index.html

Sometimes I see gas cars... In my rearview mirror! http://www.gmev.com/

President, Electric Auto Association, San Jose Chapter
http://www.geocities.com/sjeaa/

EV List Archive Owner,Admin  http://www.crest.org/discussion/ev/current/
Electric Vehicle Email List Instructions: (EVList members: Bookmark it!)
http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html

There is a prototype EV listed on eBay at the moment.  It is
apparently a roadster based on a Geo Metro chassis with Solectria
componants.

1998 Custom Electric Fun Car - White
Item 1867217647
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=1867217647
Location Detroit, MI
Ends 10/15/2002

Noel
evfinder.com

This vehicle appears to have been pulled from eBay.  I will keep my
eyes open and see if it shows up again.
noel
evfinder.com
--- In force_ev@y..., "anbausa" <anbausa@a...> wrote:
> There is a prototype EV listed on eBay at the moment.  It is
> apparently a roadster based on a Geo Metro chassis with Solectria
> componants.
>
> 1998 Custom Electric Fun Car - White
> Item 1867217647
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
> ViewItem&item=1867217647
> Location Detroit, MI
> Ends 10/15/2002
>
> Noel
> evfinder.com

That vehicle has shown up on Ebay a number of times recently, apparently
they either haven't gotten any bids on it or are setting too high a reserve
price for it.

-Tom

> -----Original Message-----
> From: anbausa [mailto:anbausa@...]
> Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 9:56 AM
> To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [force_ev] Re: Protptype EV on eBay
>
>
> This vehicle appears to have been pulled from eBay.  I will keep my
> eyes open and see if it shows up again.
> noel
> evfinder.com
> --- In force_ev@y..., "anbausa" <anbausa@a...> wrote:
> > There is a prototype EV listed on eBay at the moment.  It is
> > apparently a roadster based on a Geo Metro chassis with Solectria
> > componants.
> >
> > 1998 Custom Electric Fun Car - White
> > Item 1867217647
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
> > ViewItem&item=1867217647
> > Location Detroit, MI
> > Ends 10/15/2002
> >
> > Noel
> > evfinder.com
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> force_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

Please contact me directly on this.

I will need to be in SF at Beale and Market on Wed 8 am for a
'tag-along' job (the company I am interviewing with, wants to
check me out).

Colma BART AVCON is down. And I have already looked at the AVCON
charging that is on http://evchargernews.home.attbi.com/

I need to know what SF charging is 'not' being used by the
SF EV drivers. If you regularly park and charge in SF, please
email me directly with what location it is so I amy avoid it.
If you have SF locations you would suggest, that would help.

Please send your response directly to:  brucedp@...
as I need to plan how early I have to get up to beat the
traffic to this spot. Then I have to figure out the SF
transit system.

  -Bruce
P.S. I sent my PFC-50 charger to the factory for tweaking,
but I can still trick some evi ics-200 AVCONs to work with
one of my Zivan K2's (lots of long skinny cords). I only
get 8 amps from a 40 amp source, but it is better than
nothing.


=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the EV ascci art above)
=====

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! - We Remember
9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost
http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute

The vehicle is back again and they want a starting bid of $11,000.
How would that compare with a used Force?

Here are the details

1998 Funcar concept prototype - White
Item 1869061985
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=1869061985
Location Detroit, MI
Ends 10/22/2002
Note: built with solectria drivetrain

--- In force_ev@y..., "Tom Hudson" <tomhudson@e...> wrote:
> That vehicle has shown up on Ebay a number of times recently,
apparently
> they either haven't gotten any bids on it or are setting too high a
reserve
> price for it.
>
> -Tom
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: anbausa [mailto:anbausa@a...]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 9:56 AM
> > To: force_ev@y...
> > Subject: [force_ev] Re: Protptype EV on eBay
> >
> >
> > This vehicle appears to have been pulled from eBay.  I will keep
my
> > eyes open and see if it shows up again.
> > noel
> > evfinder.com
> > --- In force_ev@y..., "anbausa" <anbausa@a...> wrote:
> > > There is a prototype EV listed on eBay at the moment.  It is
> > > apparently a roadster based on a Geo Metro chassis with
Solectria
> > > componants.
> > >
> > > 1998 Custom Electric Fun Car - White
> > > Item 1867217647
> > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
> > > ViewItem&item=1867217647
> > > Location Detroit, MI
> > > Ends 10/15/2002
> > >
> > > Noel
> > > evfinder.com
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > force_ev-unsubscribe@e...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >

Chico EAA Chapter meeting 11/16 10a-12n

From: Chuck Alldlrin calldrin@...
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 8:38 PM
Subject: Forming new EAA chapter in Chico area!

Forming new EAA chapter in Chico area!

What:  Chico area EAA meeting

When:  Saturday Nov. 16, 2002 10am to 12 noon

Where: Vidoemaker Office  1350 East 9th St. (2 blocks west
        of Hwy 99E) Chico, CA

Why:   We need you at the meeting to help us get a new
        Northern CA. Chico chapter started!  If you are not
        now affiliated with a local chapter, we would welcome
        you to transfer to our chapter!  EV's of all types
        i.e:  autos, scooters, skateboards and Hybrids are
        welcome.  For more information and directions
        contact: Chuck Alldrin 530-899-1835 cell 530-864-0829

P.S.  I'm checking on charging outlets in the area.  I have
       50A at my home about 2 miles from meeting site
-




=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the EV ascci art above)
=====

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! - We Remember
9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost
http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute

I thought they were starting the bidding too high, the auction closed
with no bidders.

Noel
evfinder.com
--- In force_ev@y..., "anbausa" <anbausa@a...> wrote:
> The vehicle is back again and they want a starting bid of $11,000.
> How would that compare with a used Force?
>
> Here are the details
>
> 1998 Funcar concept prototype - White
> Item 1869061985
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
> ViewItem&item=1869061985
> Location Detroit, MI
> Ends 10/22/2002
> Note: built with solectria drivetrain
>
> --- In force_ev@y..., "Tom Hudson" <tomhudson@e...> wrote:
> > That vehicle has shown up on Ebay a number of times recently,
> apparently
> > they either haven't gotten any bids on it or are setting too high
a
> reserve
> > price for it.
> >
> > -Tom
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: anbausa [mailto:anbausa@a...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 9:56 AM
> > > To: force_ev@y...
> > > Subject: [force_ev] Re: Protptype EV on eBay
> > >
> > >
> > > This vehicle appears to have been pulled from eBay.  I will
keep
> my
> > > eyes open and see if it shows up again.
> > > noel
> > > evfinder.com
> > > --- In force_ev@y..., "anbausa" <anbausa@a...> wrote:
> > > > There is a prototype EV listed on eBay at the moment.  It is
> > > > apparently a roadster based on a Geo Metro chassis with
> Solectria
> > > > componants.
> > > >
> > > > 1998 Custom Electric Fun Car - White
> > > > Item 1867217647
> > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
> > > > ViewItem&item=1867217647
> > > > Location Detroit, MI
> > > > Ends 10/15/2002
> > > >
> > > > Noel
> > > > evfinder.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > force_ev-unsubscribe@e...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >

The Beverly Hills Environmental Sustainability Committee will be
holding a community outreach in conjunction with the Beverly Hills
Farmers Market.

Date Nov 17, 2002
Time 9am - 1pm

There will be an exibit of Alternative Fuel vehicles that will
include the RAV4 EV and Prius from Toyota, Phil Margo of the Tokens,
best know for their 1961 hit "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" will be
exhibiting his Honda Civic HEV and The Electric Cycle Company is
going to bring a couple of Viento Electric Mopeds.

There is also going to be a display on solar power, recycling, water
usage and a working fuel cell (unfortunately no FCV).

The Beverly Hills Farmers Market is held every Sunday on North Canon
Dr. between Dayton and Clifton.

I went out the drive off just now.  I unplugged the car, got in (the
Ah meter read 1.76 -- i.e. it wasn't quite fully charged), turned on
the "ignition" and the radio turned on briefly, and then LCD display
went haywire, and the radio and LCD went off completely.  It seems to
have "blown a fuse" figuratively.  I'm now late for my appt, so I have
to take another car, but I'm hoping some reader of this list will have
some suggestions for me when I get back.

-Earl

This is a forward from the RAV4 EV group for those Force owners who
live in California.
----------------------------
Attention EV drivers!
As you may have heard, AB1314 making it illegal for non-EVs to block
EV
charging spaces
in California has been signed by Governor Davis. While the text of
the law
says enforcement
begins Jan 1st, it likely won't start until mid next year due to
logistics.
The law calls for a 2x2 inch window sticker to be made available to
EV
drivers through DMV
HQ in Sacramento (mail in) or at EV dealerships for new customers.
There
will be a small fee
for the stickers, likely under $10. The sticker can go inside the
rear
window behind the driver or
in the edge of the drivers side windshield. The law also provides for
bumper stickers, but initially
the stickers will be made for inside use only (unless you can figure
out a
way to get it on the
bumper!) Technically any vehicle blocking a charger without a sticker
starting mid next year
could be ticketed $100 but I doubt EVs would be ticketed... AB1314 is
more
of a tool to allow
parking enforcement to ticket non-EVs blocking appropriately marked
public
EV chargers statewide.

We have a short period of time to contribute ideas for the design of
this new sticker!

The sticker will be an inside window transparent, with 1 or 2
colors. On the sticker there will
be a space for a serial number, but other than that we have a lot of
flexibility to contribute to
the design. Every EV driver interested in the final look of this new
sticker is encouraged to
contribute ideas or possible designs. Early next week I will make
some of
DMVs suggestions
available for everyone to see.
We are holding a contest starting now for all interested EV drivers
to
contribute design
ideas for the sticker. Please e-mail your design entries to me at
greg@p... .jpg or
.gif files preferable, please less than 200kbytes (remember this is
only a
2x2 inch sticker).
Remember, clear background and no more than 2 colors for the design.
All entries must be received by Tuesday the 12th of November. The
entries
will be posted
online and people can vote for the best entry on Wednesday and
Thursday the
13th and 14th.
The winner will be selected Friday morning the 15th and will win an
exciting PEVDC T-shirt
(blue or green)... oh boy!
I'm sending this out to the EV1, RAV and Th!nk lists, if anyone has
access to other groups
who might be interested in participating in this design for
California,
please feel free to forward
this e-mail. Unfortunately I will be out of town until Monday night,
so
forgive me if I don't
respond to e-mail Fri-Mon. I will clear up any unresolved issues
early
next week when I get
back.

Thanks!

Greg Hanssen, co-chairman Production EV Drivers Coalition

I'd unplug the motor controller at the large gray connector under the hood
and measure the voltage across the connector terminals.  If the main battery
fuses are OK, you should have 156VDC there.  If no voltage there, you'll
have to check those fuses, one located in each battery box.  If you have
voltage on the main connector, which from your description of the problem is
unlikely, you should check the fuses in the DC fusebox, located under the
hood.  I say it's unlikely because for the radio to go out, that means the
DC-DC converter's fuse would be blown, and for the Ah-counter to go blank,
its fuse would have to be blown as well.  Two fuses blowing out
simultaneously is very unlikely.

Good luck!

-Tom

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Earl Killian [mailto:force_ev@...]
> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 1:47 PM
> To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [force_ev] dead force
>
>
> I went out the drive off just now.  I unplugged the car, got in (the
> Ah meter read 1.76 -- i.e. it wasn't quite fully charged), turned on
> the "ignition" and the radio turned on briefly, and then LCD display
> went haywire, and the radio and LCD went off completely.  It seems to
> have "blown a fuse" figuratively.  I'm now late for my appt, so I have
> to take another car, but I'm hoping some reader of this list will have
> some suggestions for me when I get back.
>
> -Earl
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> force_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

Speaking of dead forces, I fried my charger.  I'll send more details soon
along with the replacement part I'm seeking, but the basic story is that my
force is just shy of 3 years old ~14,000 miles and my charger is toast.  The
problem is that during the 3 years it's spent about 1 year charing on 110v
only.  Apparently that really kills the changer.  I sent it in to Solectria
and they confirmed that it's burnt.  They don't have replacement parts and
are no longer making the chargers.

Peter


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greg

Why not just make these stickers the exact same as the one's we already got
from the DMV to drive in the HOV lane.  Seems like a pain for us to have one
set of stickers for the HOV lane and then another for the charging.  I
suppose there are CNG cars that have the HOV stickers, but those cars
already have CNG stickers on them so it's pretty clear that they are not
electric.

Another simple way to enforce this.  Just check if the car is plugged in.
If it's not plugged in then it shouldn't be there.

Peter



-----Original Message-----
From: anbausa [mailto:anbausa@...]
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 12:05 PM
To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [force_ev] Contest to design sticker for new EV charging space law


This is a forward from the RAV4 EV group for those Force owners who
live in California.
----------------------------
Attention EV drivers!
As you may have heard, AB1314 making it illegal for non-EVs to block
EV
charging spaces
in California has been signed by Governor Davis. While the text of
the law
says enforcement
begins Jan 1st, it likely won't start until mid next year due to
logistics.
The law calls for a 2x2 inch window sticker to be made available to
EV
drivers through DMV
HQ in Sacramento (mail in) or at EV dealerships for new customers.
There
will be a small fee
for the stickers, likely under $10. The sticker can go inside the
rear
window behind the driver or
in the edge of the drivers side windshield. The law also provides for
bumper stickers, but initially
the stickers will be made for inside use only (unless you can figure
out a
way to get it on the
bumper!) Technically any vehicle blocking a charger without a sticker
starting mid next year
could be ticketed $100 but I doubt EVs would be ticketed... AB1314 is
more
of a tool to allow
parking enforcement to ticket non-EVs blocking appropriately marked
public
EV chargers statewide.

We have a short period of time to contribute ideas for the design of
this new sticker!

The sticker will be an inside window transparent, with 1 or 2
colors. On the sticker there will
be a space for a serial number, but other than that we have a lot of
flexibility to contribute to
the design. Every EV driver interested in the final look of this new
sticker is encouraged to
contribute ideas or possible designs. Early next week I will make
some of
DMVs suggestions
available for everyone to see.
We are holding a contest starting now for all interested EV drivers
to
contribute design
ideas for the sticker. Please e-mail your design entries to me at
greg@p... .jpg or
.gif files preferable, please less than 200kbytes (remember this is
only a
2x2 inch sticker).
Remember, clear background and no more than 2 colors for the design.
All entries must be received by Tuesday the 12th of November. The
entries
will be posted
online and people can vote for the best entry on Wednesday and
Thursday the
13th and 14th.
The winner will be selected Friday morning the 15th and will win an
exciting PEVDC T-shirt
(blue or green)... oh boy!
I'm sending this out to the EV1, RAV and Th!nk lists, if anyone has
access to other groups
who might be interested in participating in this design for
California,
please feel free to forward
this e-mail. Unfortunately I will be out of town until Monday night,
so
forgive me if I don't
respond to e-mail Fri-Mon. I will clear up any unresolved issues
early
next week when I get
back.

Thanks!

Greg Hanssen, co-chairman Production EV Drivers Coalition



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Peter, what model is your charger?  Is it a BC3300?  If so, I would suggest
contacting Brusa (the Swiss company that manufactured it).  They refer to it
as an NLG412.  The charger is no longer manufactured, but I'm sure they
would be able to repair it.  They upgraded my BC3300 to the Saft NiCD
version (NLG412-Saft).  There is a little bit of a hassle dealing with the
Customs issues, but it is probably doable.  The person to contact is Josef
Brusa (josef.brusa@...).

I'd be happy to see if I could help run down the parts you need -- I do a
fair amount of electronics work and would be willing to take a crack at it.

-Tom

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Belden, Peter [mailto:pbelden@...]
> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 2:59 PM
> To: 'force_ev@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: [force_ev] Fried Charger
>
>
> Speaking of dead forces, I fried my charger.  I'll send more details soon
> along with the replacement part I'm seeking, but the basic story
> is that my
> force is just shy of 3 years old ~14,000 miles and my charger is
> toast.  The
> problem is that during the 3 years it's spent about 1 year charing on 110v
> only.  Apparently that really kills the changer.  I sent it in to
> Solectria
> and they confirmed that it's burnt.  They don't have replacement parts and
> are no longer making the chargers.
>
> Peter
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> force_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

Well sounds like an epidemic going around. My NiMH Force 4 door has been
having controller "drop out" problems since I bought it about a year ago. I
went through the process of upgrading the controller by Solectria, to the
tune of $1000.00, that didn't solve it.  The charger wouldn't work and I
sent it to them and they fixed it.  That didn't solve the problem, so I
shipped the car to them.  Guess what! There are a couple of bad cells and
they don't accept responsibility for them!  I have contacted Ovonics and
they don't make them anymore or accept that they owe me any help at all.
They did offer to sell me a later model battery set, 15 batteries at
$1000.00 each. And they say they would be selling them at a loss! This
battery pack was installed in 1999.
The only solution I can see is to bypass the bad cells and drive it at a
lower voltage.
Anyone want to buy a car?

The thing that bothers me the most is that this is a great little car!  It
drives smooth and silent, travels a mile per Ampere Hour.  The heat and A/C
work great, I installed a kick-but stereo, it rides nice and after 30,000
miles is still in good condition.  All it needs as a car is power steering
and windows.  Oh, well ...

Don Buckshot
Kansas City, MO
816-582-6891 anytime



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Belden, Peter [mailto:pbelden@...]
> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 2:59 PM
> To: 'force_ev@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: [force_ev] Fried Charger
>
>
> Speaking of dead forces, I fried my charger.  I'll send more details soon
> along with the replacement part I'm seeking, but the basic story
> is that my
> force is just shy of 3 years old ~14,000 miles and my charger is
> toast.  The
> problem is that during the 3 years it's spent about 1 year charing on 110v
> only.  Apparently that really kills the changer.  I sent it in to
> Solectria
> and they confirmed that it's burnt.  They don't have replacement parts and
> are no longer making the chargers.
>
> Peter
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> force_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

Palo Alto EV Meeting, November 15, 2002, 3-5 p.m. at the Lucie Stern
Community Center

This is a meeting to present the findings of a study by EPRI based on
the meeting February 20th of this year.

The report (in PDF format) can be found on the EAA Silicon Valley
Chapter site Information page.

http://eaasv.org click on Information, the link is near the top of the
page.

-----------------
Funded by the Utilities Department's Electric Utility Public Benefit
Fund, the Transportation Division and the Electric Power Research
Institute (EPRI) are joining together in a project to accelerate the use
of electric vehicles within Palo Alto. This effort will comprise a
market research study of demand for electric vehicle transport in Palo
Alto, from electric bicycles and tricycles to cars, trucks, and buses,
and implications for supply of electric recharge facilities. Greater use
of electric vehicles has the potential to bring clean and quiet
transport to Palo Alto streets.

The market research effort will examine both public sector and private
sector demand and supply for two periods: short term - the next two
years; and medium term - six years into the future. Special focus will
be given to ideas for increased use of electric vehicle transport that
the City of Palo Alto can facilitate. The project will be of interest to
Palo Alto residents, workers who commute to Palo Alto, and the companies
that employ these workers.

A public workshop to kick off the electric vehicle market research study
was held on  Wednesday, February 20, 3-5 p.m. at the Lucie Stern
Community Center. The proposed study plan and timeline will be discussed
at the presentation along with next steps for this project. This will be
a presentation of the study which is posted at:  public Q&A of this
document will be at the end of the meeting. For further information,
please call the Transportation Division at 650-329-2520 or e-mail Joseph
Kott joseph_kott@...


-Will

Will Beckett
Beckett PC Solutions
4189 Baker Ave.
Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908

(650) 269-7011 cell
(650) 494-6922 phone/fax
will@...
http://beckettpcsolutions.com

Holiday Special! We'll help you select a complete computer system,
purchase and set it up so all you have to do is turn it on and start
using it.  Let me make it easy for you!




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tom,
I am just tired of trying to get Solectria or Ovonics to do something about
the failure of my NiMH batteries in my Force.
I am considering changing the pack to lead acid or Ni-Cad or ?
I know you moved from Lead acid to NiCad recently.
I'd like to know about the physical size and AmH capacity of the lead acids
and the mfg, etc.
Do you still have your old batteries?
Can you help me to find out what it would take to convert mine back to lead
acid?
I would like to find a gel cell that would work so I would not have to put
in a watering system.
I know this is asking a lot, but I sure could use some help.

My only other alternatives are to sell the car as is or trade it off for
another EV.

Don Buckshot
Kansas City, MO
816-582-6891



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Hudson [mailto:tomhudson@...]
> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 6:01 PM
> To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com

Note to everyone: I replied privately to Don, but here's the upshot.

If the battery boxes in his car are the standard ones for lead-acid
batteries, a conversion to lead-acid should be a minimal job.  It would
involve:

* Possible reprogramming of the motor controller
* Almost certainly reprogramming the battery charger, assuming it's a BC3300
(Brusa NLG412).
* Checking DC-DC converter voltage ratings (I have my old one from my
lead-acid car, should he need it) to be sure the one he has will work with
the lead-acid voltage range
* Pulling the NIMH batteries out
* Putting in the battery box heaters and control boxes (I have them), if he
wants thermal management
* Installing the new batteries
* Possibly making up new battery interconnects and modifying the main cables
to reach the lead-acid terminals, which could be in different locations than
his current batteries
* Probably installing different battery box covers (I have my old ones)

I'm not entirely sure what other differences there might be in a NIMH car,
but they'd probably be minimal.

It sure sucks that Ovonics doesn't have a replacement for his type of
battery module -- Makes me glad I didn't go that route originally.

The nice thing about our EVs is that they are very modular and easy to
change around.  I think dropping his car back to a lead-acid version is
pretty easily doable.  Certainly easier than going to liquid-cooled NiCD,
though I have experience with that and could do it in a pinch!

-Tom

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Buckshot [mailto:buckshot@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 9:20 PM
> To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com; tomhudson@...
> Cc: Mike Chancey
> Subject: [force_ev] battery pack up-grade, down-grade?
>
>
> Tom,
> I am just tired of trying to get Solectria or Ovonics to do
> something about
> the failure of my NiMH batteries in my Force.
> I am considering changing the pack to lead acid or Ni-Cad or ?
> I know you moved from Lead acid to NiCad recently.
> I'd like to know about the physical size and AmH capacity of the
> lead acids
> and the mfg, etc.
> Do you still have your old batteries?
> Can you help me to find out what it would take to convert mine
> back to lead
> acid?
> I would like to find a gel cell that would work so I would not have to put
> in a watering system.
> I know this is asking a lot, but I sure could use some help.
>
> My only other alternatives are to sell the car as is or trade it off for
> another EV.
>
> Don Buckshot
> Kansas City, MO
> 816-582-6891
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tom Hudson [mailto:tomhudson@...]
> > Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 6:01 PM
> > To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> force_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

I recently checked the Evercel website (www.evercel.com) and they
listed a few new battery types they will be producing. Which ones
would be the best to put in a Force?

Daniel

First let me introduce myself. I am a volunteer advisor for the Union-
Endicott High School solar/electric vehicle team. Their website is
located at http://www.uetigertech.com . We are working on restoring a
1994 Solectria Force GT to working condition. This vehicle was
previously owned by New York State Electric & Gas and sat in a
parking lot for several years before we got it last year. Basically
nothing was done with the car last year since the club is also
working on converting a Fiero to electric and didn't have the
manpower to do two projects at once. This year the club has more
teammembers so I am helping them get the Force working again.

Thanks to the generosity of a member of the EV discussion list we
obtained a BC1000 charger for the car since we were unable to get the
charger that came with the car to operate reliably. Unfortunitly it
is not pregramed for the batteries we have and is charging at too
high a voltage. Is it possible to change the programing using the
serial port? If so how would this be accomplished.

I expect that Solectria would be willing to help with this.

- Will

Will Beckett

Contact information ( <https://ecardfile.com/id/will_beckett>
https://ecardfile.com/id/will_beckett)

Become a member or donate to the Electric Auto Association, donations
are tax deductible.  <http://eaaev.org/eaamembership.html>
http://eaaev.org/eaamembership.html

-----Original Message-----
From: pete_hatton [mailto:yahoo@...]
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 10:37 PM
To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [force_ev] introduction & charger question



First let me introduce myself. I am a volunteer advisor for the Union-
Endicott High School solar/electric vehicle team. Their website is
located at http://www.uetigertech.com . We are working on restoring a
1994 Solectria Force GT to working condition. This vehicle was
previously owned by New York State Electric & Gas and sat in a
parking lot for several years before we got it last year. Basically
nothing was done with the car last year since the club is also
working on converting a Fiero to electric and didn't have the
manpower to do two projects at once. This year the club has more
teammembers so I am helping them get the Force working again.

Thanks to the generosity of a member of the EV discussion list we
obtained a BC1000 charger for the car since we were unable to get the
charger that came with the car to operate reliably. Unfortunitly it
is not pregramed for the batteries we have and is charging at too
high a voltage. Is it possible to change the programing using the
serial port? If so how would this be accomplished.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There is a 1991 Solectric Force on ebay at the moment.

1999 Solectria Force - Green
Item 1872765825
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=1872765825
Location Lexington, MA
Ends 11/22/2002

Noel
evfinder.com

Place your votes. Send your responce to Greg <greg@...>.

-----Original Message-----
Hello Everyone!  We finally have 8 entries for you to choose from.
Please e-mail me (greg at pevdc dot org) your choice for the sticker
by this SUNDAY NIGHT.  If you'd like to include a vote for runner up,
feel
free.  Sunday night I'll tally up the votes and announce the winner.
We'll work with the winner to refine the sticker as needed for DMV..
I mentioned in my last e-mail I think it would be a good idea to include
the www.zevinfo.com web address somewhere on the sticker, we may
pursue that also (room permitting).

Speak now!
Ladies and gentlemen.. cast your votes!

<1> From Wendy Wacker at the DMV, some ideas in a pdf file:
http://www.zefiro.com/ev/contest/dmv.pdf

<2> From Lucas Miller:
http://www.zefiro.com/ev/contest/cleancar.gif

<3> From Bruce Tucker:
http://www.zefiro.com/ev/contest/evcharging1.jpg

<4> From Edward Ang:
http://www.zefiro.com/ev/contest/EV_Parking_Permit.gif

<5> From Karen Josephson:
http://www.zefiro.com/ev/contest/EVsticker_color.jpg

<6> From Darrell Dickey:
http://www.zefiro.com/ev/contest/Sticker1.gif
http://www.zefiro.com/ev/contest/Sticker2.gif
http://www.zefiro.com/ev/contest/Sticker3.gif

<7> From Chip Gribben:
http://www.zefiro.com/ev/contest/ca_zev_sticker.gif

<8> And last but not least, Doug Kerr's 15 year old son Alex:
http://www.zefiro.com/ev/contest/alexsticker.jpg

Force owners,

I'm having an interesting problem w/ the amphour gauge in my Force.

The amphour gauge seems to float around and doesn't accurately register
anymore. It does come up and self test and all of the LEDs are correct,
the green light even flashes when it's charging, but the digital readout
doesn't track what's going on. I'm wondering if the problem could be the
shunt that sits between it and the batteries? Any ideas?

thanks,
andrew

Solectria Corporation
9 Forbes Road
Woburn, MA 01801


Well Kevin,
I still haven't received a response from you when I sent this message almost
2 weeks ago.
I had hoped that you and Solectria could give me some idea of a direction to
pursue.

Please re-read the comments below and respond.

If we can bypass the bad cells and still have an operable EV then I may want
to do that and sell the EV right out of your location.

Don Buckshot
816-582-6891 mobile anytime

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Buckshot [mailto:buckshot@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 9:07 AM
To: Kevin Doherty
Cc: Mike Chancey; James Worden
Subject: RE: [Fwd: Kevin - Status report]


Kevin,
I've not had any luck or co-operation from Ovonics. They will of course sell
me a new pack of batteries for $17,000 (at a loss they say). You can be sure
we will never buy another Ovonics product.

So, I must ask you about the other batteries (lead acid or GP) that can be
put into this car without chopping it up to install new battery boxes.

You had mentioned early in our conversations that there are replacement bats
that would work. I think the NiCAD would require a watering system. I prefer
not, but ...

What can I do to replace these NiMH?  Please give me some alternatives and a
guess at the cost. Would Solectria want to take my NiMH batteries in trade?
Surely others have the same problem without a source for replacement of a
bad NiMH battery. That way you could provide some help to the others.

Another approach: How about by-passing the bad cells as we also discussed?
The message below from James Worden, would indicate that would be a possible
short term solution. What voltage and range would that leave me?

James Worden
Solectria Corporation
9 Forbes Road
Woburn, MA 01801
(781) 932-9009
F(781) 932-9219

All I really must have in range is 30 to 40 miles per charge so my wife can
drive it to work which is a 22 mile round trip.

Its time to resolve this and get my car back on the road, that is unless
Solectria would like to buy it!

Nameste'
Don Buckshot
816-582-6891


========================================
from James Worden:

Don,

Sorry to hear about you frustration with the very expensive NiMH battery
pack in your Force.  The initial lure of these
batteries for us was that they would drive a Force up to 100 miles and last
100,000 miles.  When new, the milage is
possible, in fact we set records of double this but unfortunately life has
fallen far short of the expectations.
We have seen 50,000 miles at the most, and that is at a reduced capacity of
50Ah.  Some packs have lasted only
25-30,000 miles before reaching 50Ah capacity.  We feel especially bad about
pushing this battery given the outcome,
but Ovonics only provided it with a small warranty anyway so I suppose for
us and especially the customer it was a
risk.  As it turned out, we lost quite a bit of money on Ovonics NiMH
vehicles in past years.  Newer Ovonics batteries are
said to be better, and GP batteries have given far better results as well,
but still not coming close to lead acid
economics.

You should do OK bypassing cells,
but always make sure charger profile is adequately adjusted to compensate.

Wish you the best of luck, and may your Force be with you.

James

Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 19:54:17 -0600
    From: "Don Buckshot"
<buckshot@...>
Subject: RE: Fried Charger

Well sounds like an epidemic going
around. My NiMH Force 4 door has been

having controller "drop out" problems
since I bought it about a year
ago. I
========================================


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin Doherty [mailto:doherty@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 1:35 PM
> To: buckshot@...
> Cc: Christine Russell
> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Kevin - Status report]
>
> Hello Don:
> This is what has happened so far.
> On September 30th I called and spoke to Nick Karditsas at Ovonics. He is
> Solectria's contact. I spoke to nick and he told me there was not much
> they could do for us. He said that he would look around and see if maybe
> they had any older batteries around. I haven't heard from him since. He
> asked me to send him an email with pictures of the batteries. I will
> forward that email to you.
> >From the conversation we had it sounds like there isn't much he was
> going to be able to do. You might want to try and give him a call and
> plead your case. It sounded to me that he could do something if it was
> for the right reasons. They are currently trying to sell us more
> batteries so there are also business politics at work here as well. His
> name is Nick Karditsas his phone is 248-273-7811. I will try to call him
> again as well.
>
> Regards,
> Kevin
>
> Christine Russell wrote:
>
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: Kevin - Status report
> > Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 23:27:39 -0500
> > From: "Don Buckshot" <buckshot@...>
> > To: <customerservice@...>
> >
> > Kevin,
> >
> > What is the status of your contacting Ovonics about my batteries?
> > Seems to me that Solectria might have some around maybe?
> > I really need to get my transportation back.
> > Can you give me an estimate of what you will do and when?
> >
> > Don Buckshot
> > Kansas City
> > 816-582-6891