Is this in the files?

If not I have a 1997 I can make a copy for you for free.

Don

In a message dated 11/17/2009 8:51:32 AM Pacific Standard Time,
james.barton@... writes:

I have recently purchased a 1997 Solectria Force. It came without any
Solectria documentation. The battery pack is dead. The original charger has been
replaced with a Zivan NG3.
1. I am looking for a step by step procedure to access the front battery
pack with minimal disruption to controller wiring and air conditioner plumbing.
2. I am also willing to pay for a photo copy of Solectria documentation for
this model car.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have recently purchased a 1997 Solectria Force. It came without any Solectria
documentation. The battery pack is dead. The original charger has been replaced
with a Zivan NG3.
1. I am looking for a step by step procedure to access the front battery pack
with minimal disruption to controller wiring and air conditioner plumbing.
2. I am also willing to pay for a photo copy of Solectria documentation for this
model car.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It might have been overkill, until the brake booster failed during lunch while I
had jury duty. Scared me big time. Without the brake booster, the braking is
very poor. So I made something that did everything I wanted and had the
reliability in it that I needed.

Mike



--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Raymond" <rmalden_2000@...> wrote:
>
> Sounds to me like overkill.  I'm going to try a capacitor first, but thanks
for the Plan "B".  <g>
> Ray
>
> --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "mikep_95133" <mikep_95133@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > It's interesting to me how vacuum switches between various brands of EV's
seem to not last that long. I've seen and had several failures of vacuum
switches on the US Electricar vehicles. The switch is rated to handle the vacuum
pump, but never seems to last very long.
> >
> > The first step was to add a Bosch type relay from any auto parts store, to
take the load and just let the vacuum switch switch the tiny load of the relay's
90 ohm coil. But as it turns out, the vacuum switches on the USE vehicles once
it's been damaged, really has to be replaced. I tried going with the
manufacturers modern replacement. The modern switch was junk from the start.
> >
> > Vacuum switches have been around since dirt was new, so what's the deal with
not being able to find a decent one with a little hysteresis so the pump runs
only when it needs to? I looked for a solid state vacuum sensor on Digikey and
bought a couple at $15 each. It took a while, but the circuit that I came up
with to use this $15 vacuum sensor, operates one of those Bosch type relays
using a fet. There is a toggle switch for enable, off, and always on. Enable
uses the circuitry to control the vacuum pump. Off is used for troubleshooting
things that I need to listen to under the hood by leaving the pump off. Always
on is just in case I ever have a circuitry failure, then I can still run the
vacuum pump full time to at least get me home. Never needed the always on
function yet. There are a few leds. One for the internal 5v. Another red led is
for the level of vacuum. The brighter it gets, the less vacuum is available. I
think there is a 3rd one, I just don't remember what it's for. Maybe it was for
showing when the fet is turning on the relay. There are a couple of pot
adjustments from the outside of the box for adjusting the high range of vacuum
and another for the amount of hysteresis, IIRC.
> >
> > This little project is in one of those little blue Radio Shack project boxes
that is tie wrapped to a bracket on the brake booster. I had to use medium
diameter silicone fuel tubing from model aircraft to attach to the vacuum sensor
on the circuit board. Then the silicone tubing is shoved inside of the normal
rubber vacuum line and secured with a piece of electrical tape.
> >
> > It's been something like 1.5-2 years since this circuit was put into
service. It still works perfectly even though it was built on a perf board from
Radio Shack.
> >
> > Maybe this will give others an alternative to a mechanical vacuum switch if
you ever get tired of them as I did. I have the part numbers somewhere.
> >
> > Mike
> >
>

Hey all:
 
Got tires but was told that I need new control arms to the tune of a $700
quote.  I just replaced the control arms and they are in good shape.  However, I
did not replace one bushing (because I did not have it) and this is the bushing
they showed me was bad - and it was and is.  However, the bid sounded out of
touch with reality.
 
I spend an unusual amount of time at NAPA and think I found what I need - what
NAPA is  calling a sway bar repair kit.  Specifically, this is the bushing
between what might be called the sway bar or the tie rod and the control arm. 
It looks like it is what I need, but the part number and name is a real problem
to determine.
 
Has anyone had experience with replacing this bushing (if in deed it is a
bushing)?  I feel comfortable with what I got but thought I would check before
investing time to possibly determine that this is not it.  NAPA part 265-2197
for $17.
 
Thanks in advance.
 
Jim
Westwood, KS
 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There are two links on this page under 'Low Rolling Resistance Tires', that have
LRR tire reports. The one from Greenseal is there, but there is a newer one that
might also help.

http://www.rotordesign.com/sjeaa/techlinks.html

Someday the law is suppose to require the LRR coefficient to be on the
sidewalls. But they keep pushing the date out.

I bought some LRR tires from Walmart. They are Goodyear Viva2. Only sold through
Walmart. They were on the Greenseal list. They are only at .010 coefficient, but
at least they were verified as LRR. They are 44psi tires that I have run at
50psi for several years now. The difference from 44 to 50 is noticeable. But
going from non-LRR tires to LRR tires was very noticeable.

Also adding synthetic lube to the transmission and rear end (truck), along with
setting the front end toe-in alignment to zero toe-in, gave a measured 10%
improvement in efficiency the very next day, and every day ever since.

Mike

I like the Sumitomo low rolling resistance tires on my '97 Force,
sorry I don't remember the tire specs. I use at least 1 less Ah to get
home than I did with the previous tires. At 51 psi they handle the
winding mountain road just fine.

Paul Martin
Ashland, Oregon

I endorse the view that it's best to stick with the original size, P155 / 80
R13, although there aren't a lot of them to choose from. I ended up buying
Kumho Solus KR21 and have been happy with them.
Joshua Goldstein

----- Original Message -----
From: "jim donovan" <donovan66205@...>
To: "Solectria car club" <solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 5:46 PM
Subject: [solectria_ev] Tires


> Hey all:
>
> I have been following various discussions and would appreciate a
> conscience (I need to do something tomorrow). What is the best type tire
> to put on a Force today?
>
> Jim
> Westwood, KS
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Hi All,

I have a 2001 Force with the UMOC 440 inverter.

Im experiencing a problem in which the main contactor in the inverter
sometimes doesnt close when I turn on the ignition.  The main contactor will
"clunk" closed when I turn on the ignition, but then it just immediately
opens again. It retries to close itself every 10 seconds but closes and then
opens again.  Eventually, after enough of these attempts the main contactor
will eventually close and stay closed.


I connected via hyperterminal to the diagnostic port of the inverter, and
captured the data below.  As you can see, sometimes the data show "Relay:
ON" which indicates that the main contactor has successfully closed, but
sometimes the data show "Relay: FAULT" which indicates that there has been
some kind of fault in the main contactor.

I read in the UMOC 440 service manual that there is a contactor
self-cleaning feature where the UMOC detects some dirt on the contactor, so
it tries to close the contactor repeatedly every 10 seconds until the dirt
is removed.  Not sure if my contactor is dirty or not, but its strange that
sometimes the contactor closes just fine on the first try, while at other
times it fails to close properly.

Can anyone share any insight on this problem and how I can solve it?
Can I replace the main contactor at home or do I need to send the inverter
back to Solectria?

See data below.

Thanks,
Quin

ad   23  321 1022 1021    3  376   50  129
D    0   2   1 I     0A    0A   -4A

INFO:rating:    LIMITS TO TORQUE:
ped_T     0  1  Pwr Svr:  1.0    1    0 Relay: ON
Id      0.0 A  1Mtr Temp: 1.00 1   0    Power Stage: DISABLED
Iq      0.0 A   Box Temp: 1.00          Regen: ENABLED
Temp   17.2 C   Dev Temp: 0.61          Err PAL: LEDPwr
Bat.  162.3 V   BatV:     1.00          Last err:
Rotor     0 rpm3Speed:    0.000    3  37NEUTRAL
D    0   0   1 I     0A    0A    0A

INFO:           LIMITS TO TORQUE:
ped_T     0     Pwr Svr:  1.0           Relay: FAULT
Id      0.0 A   Mtr Temp: 1.00          Power Stage: Power Up
Iq      0.0 A   Box Temp: 1.00          Regen: DISABLED
Temp   14.2 C   Dev Temp: 0.63          Err PAL: LEDPwr
Bat.  163.6 V   BatV:     1.00          Last err:
Rotor     0 rpm Speed:    1.00          NEUTRAL

  Solectria UMoC 440, v1.6B12, Tue Apr 20 14:55:24 1999 Config:47
p Paramtrs. | A Auto Prgm | W Wr.EEPROM
B reBoot    | d Disable   | e Enable
b Bat. cal. | a Amp. cal. | D Download
z Zero Slip | S SWT2 pts  |


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have the vacuum switch turn on a relay, there is also a diode to protect
the relay from the inductive spike when it turns off:
http://www.wolftronix.com/E10/images/P6160196.jpg

Wolf
*wags his tail*
www.wolftronix.com

> Sounds to me like overkill.  I'm going to try a capacitor first, but
> thanks for the Plan "B".  <g>
> Ray
>
> --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "mikep_95133" <mikep_95133@...>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> It's interesting to me how vacuum switches between various brands of
>> EV's seem to not last that long. I've seen and had several failures of
>> vacuum switches on the US Electricar vehicles. The switch is rated to
>> handle the vacuum pump, but never seems to last very long.
>>
>> The first step was to add a Bosch type relay from any auto parts store,
>> to take the load and just let the vacuum switch switch the tiny load of
>> the relay's 90 ohm coil. But as it turns out, the vacuum switches on the
>> USE vehicles once it's been damaged, really has to be replaced. I tried
>> going with the manufacturers modern replacement. The modern switch was
>> junk from the start.
>>
>> Vacuum switches have been around since dirt was new, so what's the deal
>> with not being able to find a decent one with a little hysteresis so the
>> pump runs only when it needs to? I looked for a solid state vacuum
>> sensor on Digikey and bought a couple at $15 each. It took a while, but
>> the circuit that I came up with to use this $15 vacuum sensor, operates
>> one of those Bosch type relays using a fet. There is a toggle switch for
>> enable, off, and always on. Enable uses the circuitry to control the
>> vacuum pump. Off is used for troubleshooting things that I need to
>> listen to under the hood by leaving the pump off. Always on is just in
>> case I ever have a circuitry failure, then I can still run the vacuum
>> pump full time to at least get me home. Never needed the always on
>> function yet. There are a few leds. One for the internal 5v. Another red
>> led is for the level of vacuum. The brighter it gets, the less vacuum is
>> available. I think there is a 3rd one, I just don't remember what it's
>> for. Maybe it was for showing when the fet is turning on the relay.
>> There are a couple of pot adjustments from the outside of the box for
>> adjusting the high range of vacuum and another for the amount of
>> hysteresis, IIRC.
>>
>> This little project is in one of those little blue Radio Shack project
>> boxes that is tie wrapped to a bracket on the brake booster. I had to
>> use medium diameter silicone fuel tubing from model aircraft to attach
>> to the vacuum sensor on the circuit board. Then the silicone tubing is
>> shoved inside of the normal rubber vacuum line and secured with a piece
>> of electrical tape.
>>
>> It's been something like 1.5-2 years since this circuit was put into
>> service. It still works perfectly even though it was built on a perf
>> board from Radio Shack.
>>
>> Maybe this will give others an alternative to a mechanical vacuum switch
>> if you ever get tired of them as I did. I have the part numbers
>> somewhere.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>
>
>

Sounds to me like overkill.  I'm going to try a capacitor first, but thanks for
the Plan "B".  <g>
Ray

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "mikep_95133" <mikep_95133@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> It's interesting to me how vacuum switches between various brands of EV's seem
to not last that long. I've seen and had several failures of vacuum switches on
the US Electricar vehicles. The switch is rated to handle the vacuum pump, but
never seems to last very long.
>
> The first step was to add a Bosch type relay from any auto parts store, to
take the load and just let the vacuum switch switch the tiny load of the relay's
90 ohm coil. But as it turns out, the vacuum switches on the USE vehicles once
it's been damaged, really has to be replaced. I tried going with the
manufacturers modern replacement. The modern switch was junk from the start.
>
> Vacuum switches have been around since dirt was new, so what's the deal with
not being able to find a decent one with a little hysteresis so the pump runs
only when it needs to? I looked for a solid state vacuum sensor on Digikey and
bought a couple at $15 each. It took a while, but the circuit that I came up
with to use this $15 vacuum sensor, operates one of those Bosch type relays
using a fet. There is a toggle switch for enable, off, and always on. Enable
uses the circuitry to control the vacuum pump. Off is used for troubleshooting
things that I need to listen to under the hood by leaving the pump off. Always
on is just in case I ever have a circuitry failure, then I can still run the
vacuum pump full time to at least get me home. Never needed the always on
function yet. There are a few leds. One for the internal 5v. Another red led is
for the level of vacuum. The brighter it gets, the less vacuum is available. I
think there is a 3rd one, I just don't remember what it's for. Maybe it was for
showing when the fet is turning on the relay. There are a couple of pot
adjustments from the outside of the box for adjusting the high range of vacuum
and another for the amount of hysteresis, IIRC.
>
> This little project is in one of those little blue Radio Shack project boxes
that is tie wrapped to a bracket on the brake booster. I had to use medium
diameter silicone fuel tubing from model aircraft to attach to the vacuum sensor
on the circuit board. Then the silicone tubing is shoved inside of the normal
rubber vacuum line and secured with a piece of electrical tape.
>
> It's been something like 1.5-2 years since this circuit was put into service.
It still works perfectly even though it was built on a perf board from Radio
Shack.
>
> Maybe this will give others an alternative to a mechanical vacuum switch if
you ever get tired of them as I did. I have the part numbers somewhere.
>
> Mike
>

I had premature wear on the front tires, and an alignment helped. The steering
was much easier. Too much toe in.

  Thanks,Bill S
Ph 832-338-3080
www.hstech.biz
www.promotingevs.com




________________________________
From: Gordon Stallings <genki@...>
To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 5:22:36 PM
Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Tires


I'm quite happy with my Toyo Spectrums.  Not quite optimal rolling
resistance, but far superior handling.
--Gordon Stallings--
1999 Force

On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:46 PM, jim donovan wrote:

> Hey all:
>
> I have been following various discussions and would appreciate a
> conscience (I need to do something tomorrow).  What is the best type
> tire to put on a Force today?
>
> Jim
> Westwood, KS




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm quite happy with my Toyo Spectrums.  Not quite optimal rolling
resistance, but far superior handling.
--Gordon Stallings--
1999 Force

On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:46 PM, jim donovan wrote:

> Hey all:
>
> I have been following various discussions and would appreciate a
> conscience (I need to do something tomorrow).  What is the best type
> tire to put on a Force today?
>
> Jim
> Westwood, KS

Hey all:
 
I have been following various discussions and would appreciate a conscience (I
need to do something tomorrow).  What is the best type tire to put on a Force
today?
 
Jim
Westwood, KS
 
 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It's interesting to me how vacuum switches between various brands of EV's seem
to not last that long. I've seen and had several failures of vacuum switches on
the US Electricar vehicles. The switch is rated to handle the vacuum pump, but
never seems to last very long.

The first step was to add a Bosch type relay from any auto parts store, to take
the load and just let the vacuum switch switch the tiny load of the relay's 90
ohm coil. But as it turns out, the vacuum switches on the USE vehicles once it's
been damaged, really has to be replaced. I tried going with the manufacturers
modern replacement. The modern switch was junk from the start.

Vacuum switches have been around since dirt was new, so what's the deal with not
being able to find a decent one with a little hysteresis so the pump runs only
when it needs to? I looked for a solid state vacuum sensor on Digikey and bought
a couple at $15 each. It took a while, but the circuit that I came up with to
use this $15 vacuum sensor, operates one of those Bosch type relays using a fet.
There is a toggle switch for enable, off, and always on. Enable uses the
circuitry to control the vacuum pump. Off is used for troubleshooting things
that I need to listen to under the hood by leaving the pump off. Always on is
just in case I ever have a circuitry failure, then I can still run the vacuum
pump full time to at least get me home. Never needed the always on function yet.
There are a few leds. One for the internal 5v. Another red led is for the level
of vacuum. The brighter it gets, the less vacuum is available. I think there is
a 3rd one, I just don't remember what it's for. Maybe it was for showing when
the fet is turning on the relay. There are a couple of pot adjustments from the
outside of the box for adjusting the high range of vacuum and another for the
amount of hysteresis, IIRC.

This little project is in one of those little blue Radio Shack project boxes
that is tie wrapped to a bracket on the brake booster. I had to use medium
diameter silicone fuel tubing from model aircraft to attach to the vacuum sensor
on the circuit board. Then the silicone tubing is shoved inside of the normal
rubber vacuum line and secured with a piece of electrical tape.

It's been something like 1.5-2 years since this circuit was put into service. It
still works perfectly even though it was built on a perf board from Radio Shack.

Maybe this will give others an alternative to a mechanical vacuum switch if you
ever get tired of them as I did. I have the part numbers somewhere.

Mike

The replacement switch that I obtained from a distributor for the
manufacturer came threaded.  Replacement was simple.

They offer that relay in several configurations.  Just order the right
one!

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Gordon Stallings <genki@...> wrote:
>
> Update:
> I got the pressure switch working again!  It was gunked up with too
> much WD-40.  I studied the spec sheet of the switch
<http://www.designflexswitches.com/switches/psf109s.php
>  > and found that there is an adjustment screw inside the vacuum-side
> port.  I removed the switch and cleaned it and then with an allen
> wrench, backed off the screw a bit.  Put it back together and now I'm
> driving silent again.
>
> Incidentally, a replacement switch can be purchased but you'll have to
> tap threads onto the plastic nipple, which comes unthreaded.
>
> As mentioned by others, WD-40 is the first thing to try.  It usually
> solves the problem.
>
> --Gordon Stallings--
>
> On Nov 6, 2009, at 8:27 PM, ldr214 wrote:
>
> > Smile and be happy that the vacuum pump switch fails on and not off.
> > The equally underated heater relay seems to stick in the off
position.
> >
> > The vacuum pump control switch in my car hasn't stuck since I
> > cleaned it in 09/2004, 17000 miles ago. Climate here is super dry in
> > the summer but wet enough in the winter.
> >
> > Seems like cleaning and being aware of the potential problem is
> > about all we can do as owners. Replacing the switch, or repair, is
> > the next step if the problem persists.
> >
> > I don't clearly recall the inner workings of the switch assembly but
> > it seems like there is the potential for a simple physicial problem
> > (cleaning helps) and also a worn electricial contact issue.
> >
> > Bill,
> > Thanks for the sensor info.
> >
> > Mike R
> > 97 Force
> >
> > --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Bill or Dorothy Swann
> > dbswann4@ wrote:
> >>
> >> I have retrofitted a programmable Parker Hannifin vacuum sensor as
> >> follows: It has a readout to let you see the vacuum level, as well
> >> as the hysteresis trip points.
> >>
> >> http://www.convumusa.com/sensors/mps-3-1.htm
> >>
> >> Thanks,Bill S
> >> Ph 832-338-3080
> >> www.hstech.biz
> >> www.promotingevs.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Joshua Goldstein jg@
> >> To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> >> Sent: Thu, November 5, 2009 9:46:40 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Booster vacuum
> >>
> >>
> >> My vacuum switch also intermittently sticks in the on position.
> >> WD-40 fixes
> >> it for a few months usually. The correlating factor is humidity -
> >> when it
> >> happens, it's always on a damp day.  It's a fairly new switch (2
> >> years,
> >> 15,000 miles).
> >> Joshua
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Gordon Stallings" genki@ionet. net>
> >> To: <solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 6:06 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Booster vacuum
> >>
> >>> I used to be able to fix it by spraying WD-40 into the vent hole.
> >>> That doesn't work anymore.  But thanks for the note.
> >>>
> >>> On Nov 4, 2009, at 10:08 AM, Ken Olum wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> It could very well be that you have a contact problem, but in my
> >>>> experience the usual cause of the vacuum switch failing to open
is
> >>>> just that it is sticky and needs lubrication.
> >>>>
> >>>>                                       Ken Olum
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
> >>>
> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

My switch failed and was replaced a few weeks ago.  I broke open the old
one to look at the contacts, and found them pitted seriously.  I agree
that the relay is not up to the task assigned, and like the idea of a
capacitor across the contacts.  I'd like to hear more about the results.

Lubrication of relay contacts doesn't resonate with me.

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "ldr214" <replytome@...> wrote:
>
> Smile and be happy that the vacuum pump switch fails on and not off.
The equally underated heater relay seems to stick in the off position.
>
> The vacuum pump control switch in my car hasn't stuck since I cleaned
it in 09/2004, 17000 miles ago. Climate here is super dry in the summer
but wet enough in the winter.
>
> Seems like cleaning and being aware of the potential problem is about
all we can do as owners. Replacing the switch, or repair, is the next
step if the problem persists.
>
> I don't clearly recall the inner workings of the switch assembly but
it seems like there is the potential for a simple physicial problem
(cleaning helps) and also a worn electricial contact issue.
>
> Bill,
> Thanks for the sensor info.
>
> Mike R
> 97 Force
>
> --- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, Bill or Dorothy Swann dbswann4@
wrote:
> >
> > I have retrofitted a programmable Parker Hannifin vacuum sensor as
follows: It has a readout to let you see the vacuum level, as well as
the hysteresis trip points.
> >
> > http://www.convumusa.com/sensors/mps-3-1.htm
> >
> >  Thanks,Bill S
> > Ph 832-338-3080
> > www.hstech.biz
> > www.promotingevs.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Joshua Goldstein jg@
> > To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thu, November 5, 2009 9:46:40 AM
> > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Booster vacuum
> >
> >
> > My vacuum switch also intermittently sticks in the on position.
WD-40 fixes
> > it for a few months usually. The correlating factor is humidity -
when it
> > happens, it's always on a damp day.  It's a fairly new switch (2
years,
> > 15,000 miles).
> > Joshua
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gordon Stallings" genki@ionet. net>
> > To: <solectria_ev@ yahoogroups. com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 6:06 PM
> > Subject: Re: [solectria_ev] Re: Booster vacuum
> >
> > >I used to be able to fix it by spraying WD-40 into the vent hole.
> > > That doesn't work anymore.  But thanks for the note.
> > >
> > > On Nov 4, 2009, at 10:08 AM, Ken Olum wrote:
> > >
> > >> It could very well be that you have a contact problem, but in my
> > >> experience the usual cause of the vacuum switch failing to open
is
> > >> just that it is sticky and needs lubrication.
> > >>
> > >>                                        Ken Olum
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Brusa "counts" the charge cycles on the caps to determine the current.  As these
solder connections start to fail, the caps deliver ever decreasing amounts of
charge, and the actual current delivered drops off.  So if you measure the
actual current the Brusa delivers, and it is significantly less than the Brusa
reports, then you are on your way to this type of failure.  Wolf's fix will
restore the charger and correct the current output so that it matches what the
charger thinks it is doing.

Also, de-tuning the charger so that it doesn't run at full capacity will prolong
the life because it won't run so hot.

Ken

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Wolf" <wolf@...> wrote:
>
>
> I fixed a BC3300 charger. :)
>
> On the Capacitor board:
> http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8170.jpg
>
> The blue caps carry all the current to be delivered to the batteries...
> See page 30:
> http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/NLG4B_62.pdf
> They are C1, C2, C3, and C4.
>
> The problem is that Brusa used a very hard epoxy to glue the caps to the
> PCB and then soldered them... The thermal cycling of the caps, since they
> can't move, causes the solder joints to fail... then they start to arc:
>
> http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8182.jpg
> http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8183.jpg
> http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8184.jpg
> http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8185.jpg
> http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8186.jpg
> http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8187.jpg
>
> Simply touching up all the solder joints will fix the charger:
> http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8188.jpg
> http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8189.jpg
> http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8190.jpg
>
> I would recomend that anyone who has a BC3300 charger take is apart and
> touch up all the solder joints... It will help it last you another 15
> years. ;D
>
> Pics starting at:
> http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8133.jpg
> And ending at:
> http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8169.jpg
> Show how to disassemble the charger... since they like to stack boards on
> top of boards on top of other boards, with more boards stacked on the
> side... ;P
>
> All the pics:
> http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300
>
> Wolf
> *wags his tail*
> www.wolftronix.com
>

Bo, Ryan, Shannon and Nikki welcome Joe Lado to their constellation of hosts to
the EVcast network of EV related programs. Joe Lado's show will be focused on
the Electric Vehicle racing, whether it be drag, autocross, solar car or formula
1, if it is done with an electric motor Joe Lado will have guests to talk about
it. (NOT THAT. GEE GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE GUTTER) So become a member and log
in to EVcast.com every Thursday night at 9 pm ET to hear the triumphs and
tribulations of the world of EV racing on the EVcast's very own EV Power Hour.
And don't miss EVcast's other shows. Find out listings and times at
http://www.evcast.com.

This week we talk to Jerry Asher, EAA board member, first person to travel to
each of the 48 contiguous United States state capitols in a plug-in hybrid.

I will be waiting anxiously.  This is where I am headed.



--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Wolf Packs, Inc." <traildog@...> wrote:
>
> Jerry,
>
> I have ordered a BMS-48 from Hardy Electric Vehicles for my 48 100Ah
> Thundersky cells (that should be arriving around Thanksgiving). I'll
> be the Guinea Pig for the group with this BMS :-). I'll get everything
> installed as soon as possible and make a blog with photos and info for
> those who are interested.
>
> Paul Martin
> Ashland Oregon
> '97 Force
>

I fixed a BC3300 charger. :)

On the Capacitor board:
http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8170.jpg

The blue caps carry all the current to be delivered to the batteries...
See page 30:
http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/NLG4B_62.pdf
They are C1, C2, C3, and C4.

The problem is that Brusa used a very hard epoxy to glue the caps to the
PCB and then soldered them... The thermal cycling of the caps, since they
can't move, causes the solder joints to fail... then they start to arc:

http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8182.jpg
http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8183.jpg
http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8184.jpg
http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8185.jpg
http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8186.jpg
http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8187.jpg

Simply touching up all the solder joints will fix the charger:
http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8188.jpg
http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8189.jpg
http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8190.jpg

I would recomend that anyone who has a BC3300 charger take is apart and
touch up all the solder joints... It will help it last you another 15
years. ;D

Pics starting at:
http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8133.jpg
And ending at:
http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300/images/IMG_8169.jpg
Show how to disassemble the charger... since they like to stack boards on
top of boards on top of other boards, with more boards stacked on the
side... ;P

All the pics:
http://www.wolftronix.com/BC3300

Wolf
*wags his tail*
www.wolftronix.com

Jerry,

I have ordered a BMS-48 from Hardy Electric Vehicles for my 48 100Ah
Thundersky cells (that should be arriving around Thanksgiving). I'll
be the Guinea Pig for the group with this BMS :-). I'll get everything
installed as soon as possible and make a blog with photos and info for
those who are interested.

Paul Martin
Ashland Oregon
'97 Force
AMC325 Controller
Zivan NG3 Charger


> What to use for a 'battery management system'?  From what I've read
> lithium batteries require a BMS to equalize the charging of
> individual cells and prevent damage due to over discharge,
> overcharge and excessive current. The over curent function is
> probably solved the motor controller and possibly by a fuse since
> these cells can tolerate over 1000 amps. But the remaining BMS
> functions still seem important and I cannot find any commercial
> solution.  Also charging questions?
> can the  normal chargers be " reprogramed", how?  I believe a 48
> cell LIPO4 battery will work well in a 156 volt car with the 156
> volt charger.  I have found a "kit" BMS solution that may work out
> but it was designed to support only a 24 cell pack, I'd propose
> using two of them appropriately interconnected.

Jerry,
All good questions but you need to supply folks with the type of controller and
charger that are in the car you are looking at as there are a few different
flavors.  Even by year group the cars have as a result of aging ended up in many
cases with changes from the original.

My 97 has a Brusa AMC325 controller and a Brusa NLG4 controller both of which
can be manipulated to meet your needs.
Mike R
97 Force

--- In solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com, "jerry" <lieblerj@...> wrote:
>
> I'm optimistic that I'll soon join the elite group of Solectria Force owners. 
I'm hoping to buy a Force with a worn out SLA  battery then replace the battery 
with one made up of "Thunder-Sky" or "Sky Energy" LIFEPO4 prismatic cells.  It
appears that the 100AH size would easily fit and weigh about 1/2 of the SLA.
Larger sizes could also fit but not quite as simply.  My concern is:  What to
use for a 'battery management system'?  From what I've read lithium batteries
require a BMS to equalize the charging of individual cells and prevent damage
due to over discharge, overcharge and excessive current. The over curent
function is probably solved the motor controller and possibly by a fuse since
these cells can tolerate over 1000 amps. But the remaining BMS functions still
seem important and I cannot find any commercial solution.  Also charging
questions?
> can the  normal chargers be " reprogramed", how?  I believe a 48 cell LIPO4
battery will work well in a 156 volt car with the 156 volt charger.  I have
found a "kit" BMS solution that may work out but it was designed to support only
a 24 cell pack, I'd propose using two of them appropriately interconnected.
Another question relates to the motor controller, can it be signaled that the
battery is low?
> How have others dealt with these issues?
> Regards
> Jerry Liebler
>

I never recieved a compressor, I was just after the motor and controller,
but the deal fell thru... so I had to make my own:
http://www.wolftronix.com/air_conditioning

:)

Wolf
*wags his tail*
www.wolftronix.com

> The air conditioning compressor on my 1998 Force (1997 Geo) is leaking
> oil.  The mechanic says that it's a seal failure, but the compressor
> can't be serviced and must be replaced.   Anyone have a spare one?
> Wolf, Pink, did you end up with an extra between you?
>
>                                         Ken
>

I'm optimistic that I'll soon join the elite group of Solectria Force owners. 
I'm hoping to buy a Force with a worn out SLA  battery then replace the battery 
with one made up of "Thunder-Sky" or "Sky Energy" LIFEPO4 prismatic cells.  It
appears that the 100AH size would easily fit and weigh about 1/2 of the SLA.
Larger sizes could also fit but not quite as simply.  My concern is:  What to
use for a 'battery management system'?  From what I've read lithium batteries
require a BMS to equalize the charging of individual cells and prevent damage
due to over discharge, overcharge and excessive current. The over curent
function is probably solved the motor controller and possibly by a fuse since
these cells can tolerate over 1000 amps. But the remaining BMS functions still
seem important and I cannot find any commercial solution.  Also charging
questions?
can the  normal chargers be " reprogramed", how?  I believe a 48 cell LIPO4
battery will work well in a 156 volt car with the 156 volt charger.  I have
found a "kit" BMS solution that may work out but it was designed to support only
a 24 cell pack, I'd propose using two of them appropriately interconnected.
Another question relates to the motor controller, can it be signaled that the
battery is low?
How have others dealt with these issues?
Regards
Jerry Liebler

How much do you want for it?  We'd better check it's the same -- what
year is your car?

Ken Olum
156 Massapoag Ave.
Sharon, MA 02067

I have one. It came with my Force, as the seller as not sure of the installed
unit.
Give me a mailing address.
Also have some vacuum pumps.

  Thanks,Bill S
Ph 832-338-3080
www.hstech.biz
www.promotingevs.com




________________________________
From: Ken Olum <kdo@...>
To: solectria_ev@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 7:43:26 AM
Subject: [solectria_ev] Any one have a spare compressor?


The air conditioning compressor on my 1998 Force (1997 Geo) is leaking
oil.  The mechanic says that it's a seal failure, but the compressor
can't be serviced and must be replaced.   Anyone have a spare one?
Wolf, Pink, did you end up with an extra between you?

Ken



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The air conditioning compressor on my 1998 Force (1997 Geo) is leaking
oil.  The mechanic says that it's a seal failure, but the compressor
can't be serviced and must be replaced.   Anyone have a spare one?
Wolf, Pink, did you end up with an extra between you?

                                         Ken

Are you David Roden?  Give me your name and I'll add you.
--Gordon--

On Nov 9, 2009, at 11:09 AM, rod864 wrote:

> I can't recall, did I report in with mine?
>
> 1991 Force, vin 2C1MR2463M6812064.  Solectria once told me it was
> the first one they built.  It was originally sold to Arizona Public
> Service.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

I can't recall, did I report in with mine?

1991 Force, vin 2C1MR2463M6812064.  Solectria once told me it was the first one
they built.  It was originally sold to Arizona Public Service.

Lynn,
You can also check with evcomponents.com

> I went thru my saved e-mail and could not find any chat that would
> help me find a dealer for Thundersky Lithium Battery purchase.

Paul Martin
Ashland, Oregon