Dang!  That's some puddle you got there, Will.  I'm glad it wasn't worse.

-Tom

Will Beckett wrote:

>OK, I will post it to the EAASV.ORG web site.
>
>http://becketts.ws/eaa/evinfo.htm
>
>
>-Will
>
>
>

--
Thomas Hudson
http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects

The foam on the top cover burned.  It easily could have been worse.


-Will

Will Beckett
Beckett PC Solutions
4189 Baker Ave.
Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908

(650) 494-6922 phone & fax
(650) 269-7011 cell
mailto:will@...
http://beckettpcsolutions.com <http://beckettpcsolutions.com/>

"Let me make it easy for you!"

a Business Network Int'l member http://www.paloaltobni.com
<http://www.paloaltobni.com/>

a member of the Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce http://www.paloaltochamber.com
<http://www.paloaltochamber.com/>

Support the arts, subscribe to West Bay Opera http://www.wbopera.org
<http://www.wbopera.org/>



   _____

From: Tom Hudson [mailto:tomhudson@...]
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 1:29 PM
To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [force_ev] She's dead Jim!


Dang!  That's some puddle you got there, Will.  I'm glad it wasn't worse.

-Tom

Will Beckett wrote:

>OK, I will post it to the EAASV.ORG web site.
>
>http://becketts.ws/eaa/evinfo.htm
>
>
>-Will
>
>
>

--
Thomas Hudson
http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If it's NiCDs, there would be no problem with it sitting -- You could
just do a maintenance charge or discharge the batteries and do a
recommissioning charge, so that the charger is reset to the proper
battery state.  Don't know about NiMH.

-Tom

Will Beckett wrote:

>ZAP! has a NiCad or NiMH Force that a school ran in the Tour-de-Sol.  I am
>just wondering what condition the batteries might be in if the car was just
>in storage since that time.
>
>
>-Will
>
>
>
--
Thomas Hudson
http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects

NiMH has a very high self discharge rate so I would expect they would be in
pretty bad shape.


   _____

From: Tom Hudson [mailto:tomhudson@...]
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 7:43 PM
To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [force_ev] NiCad or NiMH Force owner?


If it's NiCDs, there would be no problem with it sitting -- You could
just do a maintenance charge or discharge the batteries and do a
recommissioning charge, so that the charger is reset to the proper
battery state.  Don't know about NiMH.

-Tom

Will Beckett wrote:

>ZAP! has a NiCad or NiMH Force that a school ran in the Tour-de-Sol.  I am
>just wondering what condition the batteries might be in if the car was just
>in storage since that time.
>
>
>-Will
>
>
>
--
Thomas Hudson
http://portdistrict5.org <http://portdistrict5.org>  -- 5th District
Aldermanic Website
http://portev.org <http://portev.org>  -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power &
More
http://portgardenclub.org <http://portgardenclub.org>  -- Port Washington
Garden Club
http://portlightstation.org <http://portlightstation.org>  -- Light Station
Restoration
http://klanky.com <http://klanky.com>  -- Animation Projects




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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information in this e-mail and any attachments are for the sole use of the
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If you are not the intended recipient, any use, disclosure, copying or
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==============================================================================


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I just found out that they are willing to sell this as-is for $12K.  I
understand it is in great shape.  It is a 1995 Force.


-Will

Will Beckett
Beckett PC Solutions
4189 Baker Ave.
Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908

(650) 494-6922 phone & fax
(650) 269-7011 cell
mailto:will@...
http://beckettpcsolutions.com <http://beckettpcsolutions.com/>

"Let me make it easy for you!"

a Business Network Int'l member http://www.paloaltobni.com
<http://www.paloaltobni.com/>

a member of the Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce http://www.paloaltochamber.com
<http://www.paloaltochamber.com/>

Support the arts, subscribe to West Bay Opera http://www.wbopera.org
<http://www.wbopera.org/>



   _____

From: Adams, Noel [mailto:noel.adams@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:29 AM
To: 'force_ev@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [force_ev] NiCad or NiMH Force owner?


NiMH has a very high self discharge rate so I would expect they would be in
pretty bad shape.


   _____

From: Tom Hudson [mailto:tomhudson@...]
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 7:43 PM
To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [force_ev] NiCad or NiMH Force owner?


If it's NiCDs, there would be no problem with it sitting -- You could
just do a maintenance charge or discharge the batteries and do a
recommissioning charge, so that the charger is reset to the proper
battery state.  Don't know about NiMH.

-Tom

Will Beckett wrote:

>ZAP! has a NiCad or NiMH Force that a school ran in the Tour-de-Sol.  I am
>just wondering what condition the batteries might be in if the car was just
>in storage since that time.
>
>
>-Will
>
>
>
--
Thomas Hudson
http://portdistrict5.org <http://portdistrict5.org>  -- 5th District
Aldermanic Website
http://portev.org <http://portev.org>  -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power &
More
http://portgardenclub.org <http://portgardenclub.org>  -- Port Washington
Garden Club
http://portlightstation.org <http://portlightstation.org>  -- Light Station
Restoration
http://klanky.com <http://klanky.com>  -- Animation Projects




Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

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.orchardbank.com/hcs/hcsapplication?pf=PLApply&media=EMYHNL40F21004SS> click
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

All the batteries measure zero volts at the moment.  Do you expect it is
possible they could come back after a few charging cycles?  Looks like my
friend, Paul Schafer, in Novato, will be purchasing the car.  He needs to
talk to someone that has experience with a Force that has NiMH batteries.


- Will

Will Beckett, membership
4189 Baker Ave.
Palo Alto, CA  94306
(650) 494-6922

Become a member or donate to the Electric Auto Association, donations are
tax deductible. http://eaaev.org/eaamembership.html




   _____

From: Adams, Noel [mailto:noel.adams@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:29 AM
To: 'force_ev@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [force_ev] NiCad or NiMH Force owner?


NiMH has a very high self discharge rate so I would expect they would be in
pretty bad shape.


   _____

From: Tom Hudson [mailto:tomhudson@...]
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 7:43 PM
To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [force_ev] NiCad or NiMH Force owner?


If it's NiCDs, there would be no problem with it sitting -- You could
just do a maintenance charge or discharge the batteries and do a
recommissioning charge, so that the charger is reset to the proper
battery state.  Don't know about NiMH.

-Tom

Will Beckett wrote:

>ZAP! has a NiCad or NiMH Force that a school ran in the Tour-de-Sol.  I am
>just wondering what condition the batteries might be in if the car was just
>in storage since that time.
>
>
>-Will
>
>
>
--
Thomas Hudson
http://portdistrict5.org <http://portdistrict5.org>  -- 5th District
Aldermanic Website
http://portev.org <http://portev.org>  -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power &
More
http://portgardenclub.org <http://portgardenclub.org>  -- Port Washington
Garden Club
http://portlightstation.org <http://portlightstation.org>  -- Light Station
Restoration
http://klanky.com <http://klanky.com>  -- Animation Projects




Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mr. Beckett:

What happened with those dead NiMH batteries?  Were you able to
bring them back to life?

How is Mr. Schafer doing with the car?  Is he on the road?

Sincerely,
Gary Carlson

--- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Will Beckett" <will@b...> wrote:
> All the batteries measure zero volts at the moment.  Do you expect
it is
> possible they could come back after a few charging cycles?  Looks
like my
> friend, Paul Schafer, in Novato, will be purchasing the car.  He
needs to
> talk to someone that has experience with a Force that has NiMH
batteries.
>
>
> - Will
>
> Will Beckett, membership
> 4189 Baker Ave.
> Palo Alto, CA  94306
> (650) 494-6922
>
> Become a member or donate to the Electric Auto Association,
donations are
> tax deductible. http://eaaev.org/eaamembership.html
>
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: Adams, Noel [mailto:noel.adams@p...]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:29 AM
> To: 'force_ev@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [force_ev] NiCad or NiMH Force owner?
>
>
> NiMH has a very high self discharge rate so I would expect they
would be in
> pretty bad shape.
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: Tom Hudson [mailto:tomhudson@e...]
> Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 7:43 PM
> To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [force_ev] NiCad or NiMH Force owner?
>
>
> If it's NiCDs, there would be no problem with it sitting -- You
could
> just do a maintenance charge or discharge the batteries and do a
> recommissioning charge, so that the charger is reset to the proper
> battery state.  Don't know about NiMH.
>
> -Tom
>
> Will Beckett wrote:
>
> >ZAP! has a NiCad or NiMH Force that a school ran in the Tour-de-
Sol.  I am
> >just wondering what condition the batteries might be in if the
car was just
> >in storage since that time.
> >
> >
> >-Will
> >
> >
> >
> --
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portdistrict5.org <http://portdistrict5.org>  -- 5th
District
> Aldermanic Website
> http://portev.org <http://portev.org>  -- Electric Vehicles, Solar
Power &
> More
> http://portgardenclub.org <http://portgardenclub.org>  -- Port
Washington
> Garden Club
> http://portlightstation.org <http://portlightstation.org>  --
Light Station
> Restoration
> http://klanky.com <http://klanky.com>  -- Animation Projects
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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> intended recipient and may contain privileged and confidential
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> If you are not the intended recipient, any use, disclosure,
copying or
> distribution of this message or attachment is strictly
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> believe that you have received this e-mail in error, please
contact the
> sender
> immediately and delete the e-mail and all of its attachments.
>
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nice of you to ask.  Yes, Paul (Dr. Schafer, DDS) is almost there.  He used
a small charger to individually charge the batteries and all most all of
them came back.  He has one bad cell that needs to be replaced and he is
working on that.  His Brusa charger is not working, however.  So he is not
able to use the car for general day to day stuff yet.  We are currently
trouble shooting this and hope to get it working soon.


-Will

Will Beckett
Beckett PC Solutions
4189 Baker Ave.
Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908

(650) 494-6922 phone & fax
(650) 269-7011 cell
mailto:will@...
http://beckettpcsolutions.com <http://beckettpcsolutions.com/>

"Let me make it easy for you!"

a Business Network Int'l member http://www.paloaltobni.com
<http://www.paloaltobni.com/>

a member of the Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce http://www.paloaltochamber.com
<http://www.paloaltochamber.com/>

Support the arts, subscribe to West Bay Opera http://www.wbopera.org
<http://www.wbopera.org/>



   _____

From: gjc02000 [mailto:gjc0@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 7:57 AM
To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [force_ev] Re: NiCad or NiMH Force owner?



Mr. Beckett:

What happened with those dead NiMH batteries?  Were you able to
bring them back to life?

How is Mr. Schafer doing with the car?  Is he on the road?

Sincerely,
Gary Carlson

--- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Will Beckett" <will@b...> wrote:
> All the batteries measure zero volts at the moment.  Do you expect
it is
> possible they could come back after a few charging cycles?  Looks
like my
> friend, Paul Schafer, in Novato, will be purchasing the car.  He
needs to
> talk to someone that has experience with a Force that has NiMH
batteries.
>
>
> - Will
>
> Will Beckett, membership
> 4189 Baker Ave.
> Palo Alto, CA  94306
> (650) 494-6922
>
> Become a member or donate to the Electric Auto Association,
donations are
> tax deductible. http://eaaev.org/eaamembership.html
>
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: Adams, Noel [mailto:noel.adams@p...]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:29 AM
> To: 'force_ev@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [force_ev] NiCad or NiMH Force owner?
>
>
> NiMH has a very high self discharge rate so I would expect they
would be in
> pretty bad shape.
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: Tom Hudson [mailto:tomhudson@e...]
> Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 7:43 PM
> To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [force_ev] NiCad or NiMH Force owner?
>
>
> If it's NiCDs, there would be no problem with it sitting -- You
could
> just do a maintenance charge or discharge the batteries and do a
> recommissioning charge, so that the charger is reset to the proper
> battery state.  Don't know about NiMH.
>
> -Tom
>
> Will Beckett wrote:
>
> >ZAP! has a NiCad or NiMH Force that a school ran in the Tour-de-
Sol.  I am
> >just wondering what condition the batteries might be in if the
car was just
> >in storage since that time.
> >
> >
> >-Will
> >
> >
> >
> --
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portdistrict5.org <http://portdistrict5.org>  -- 5th
District
> Aldermanic Website
> http://portev.org <http://portev.org>  -- Electric Vehicles, Solar
Power &
> More
> http://portgardenclub.org <http://portgardenclub.org>  -- Port
Washington
> Garden Club
> http://portlightstation.org <http://portlightstation.org>  --
Light Station
> Restoration
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>
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>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings, all:

Last night when I got home after a 6-mile (8.5 amp-hour) drive, I plugged
in my car but the charger, instead of doing its usual thing, displayed a
yellow indication after a few seconds and began charging very slowly. It
turned green after about an hour, having put only bout an amp hour and a
half into the pack. I unplugged it and plugged it back in, at which point
it displayed a red indication and started charging normally. But this
morning the amp hour meter read 5.88, and the charger indicatoor was
green.

I didn't take the car out today and left it plugged it. When I got home I
unplugged it and plugged it back in, whereupon it turned yellow after a
few seconds and did the slow-charge thing. Now it's green again annd the
amp-hour meter reads 4.48.

It's acting like it thinks the batteries are already fully charged. Have
any of y'all had this experience?


Rob Landry
umarc@...

Bob Landry:

I have not seen this before on my Zivan charger.  However,
if there was a bad connection that dropped a few volts between
the battery pack and the charger, the charger would see a
higher voltage at its end and think the batteries were more
charged than they really were.

Before you spend any money on the problem, carefully check all
the connections between the charger and the battery pack.  If
your charger is out of warantee, you could also open it up and check
for bad connections there.

I am making these recommendations assuming that you are
experienced and qualified to work around lethal voltages
and currents that cannot be turned off for servicing.

Sincerely,
Gary Carlson

  --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, umarc <umarc@h...> wrote:
> Greetings, all:
>
> Last night when I got home after a 6-mile (8.5 amp-hour) drive, I
plugged
> in my car but the charger, instead of doing its usual thing,
displayed a
> yellow indication after a few seconds and began charging very
slowly. It
> turned green after about an hour, having put only bout an amp hour
and a
> half into the pack. I unplugged it and plugged it back in, at
which point
> it displayed a red indication and started charging normally. But
this
> morning the amp hour meter read 5.88, and the charger indicatoor
was
> green.
>
> I didn't take the car out today and left it plugged it. When I got
home I
> unplugged it and plugged it back in, whereupon it turned yellow
after a
> few seconds and did the slow-charge thing. Now it's green again
annd the
> amp-hour meter reads 4.48.
>
> It's acting like it thinks the batteries are already fully
charged. Have
> any of y'all had this experience?
>
>
> Rob Landry
> umarc@h...

Gary:

> I have not seen this before on my Zivan charger.  However,
> if there was a bad connection that dropped a few volts between
> the battery pack and the charger, the charger would see a
> higher voltage at its end and think the batteries were more
> charged than they really were.

Bingo. I found not one but two bad connections: a loose connector on the
cable between the charger and the pack, and a loose fuse cap.

Thank you for your help.


Rob

How would I obtain a Solectria owners manual for a 1996 Force?

I received a Solectria service manual with this vehicle, but not a
Solectria owners manual.  I have obtained a Geo Metro service manual
at a local auto parts store.

Call Solectria (781) 932-9009


-Will

Will Beckett
Beckett PC Solutions
4189 Baker Ave.
Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908

(650) 494-6922 phone & fax
(650) 269-7011 cell
mailto:will@...
http://beckettpcsolutions.com <http://beckettpcsolutions.com/>

"Let me make it easy for you!"

a Business Network Int'l member http://www.paloaltobni.com
<http://www.paloaltobni.com/>

a member of the Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce http://www.paloaltochamber.com
<http://www.paloaltochamber.com/>

Support the arts, subscribe to West Bay Opera http://www.wbopera.org
<http://www.wbopera.org/>



   _____

From: dufus2020 [mailto:cb02@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 6:20 PM
To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [force_ev] Solectria Force Owners Manual



How would I obtain a Solectria owners manual for a 1996 Force?

I received a Solectria service manual with this vehicle, but not a
Solectria owners manual.  I have obtained a Geo Metro service manual
at a local auto parts store.





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Will,
I have all of the NiMH batteries removed from my Force. I had a couple of
bad cells and had Solectria convert the car to PbA. I would have really been
happy to be able to get replacement NiMH batteries to keep the longer range
an expected life but I couldn't find any.

If Paul gets stuck and his car is not able to be used at all, I would
consider selling him enough to get going.

Solectria told me they have built only 14 of the NiMH models.

Don Buckshot
913-789-0889
Kansas City

-----Original Message-----
From: Will Beckett [mailto:will@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 11:14 AM
To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [force_ev] Re: NiCad or NiMH Force owner?
Nice of you to ask.  Yes, Paul (Dr. Schafer, DDS) is almost there.  He used
a small charger to individually charge the batteries and all most all of
them came back.  He has one bad cell that needs to be replaced and he is
working on that.  His Brusa charger is not working, however.  So he is not
able to use the car for general day to day stuff yet.  We are currently
trouble shooting this and hope to get it working soon.
-Will

Will Beckett
Beckett PC Solutions
4189 Baker Ave.
Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908

(650) 494-6922 phone & fax
(650) 269-7011 cell
mailto:will@...
http://beckettpcsolutions.com <http://beckettpcsolutions.com/>

"Let me make it easy for you!"

a Business Network Int'l member http://www.paloaltobni.com
<http://www.paloaltobni.com/>

a member of the Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce http://www.paloaltochamber.com
<http://www.paloaltochamber.com/>

Support the arts, subscribe to West Bay Opera http://www.wbopera.org
<http://www.wbopera.org/>



   _____

From: gjc02000 [mailto:gjc0@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 7:57 AM
To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [force_ev] Re: NiCad or NiMH Force owner?



Mr. Beckett:

What happened with those dead NiMH batteries?  Were you able to
bring them back to life?

How is Mr. Schafer doing with the car?  Is he on the road?

Sincerely,
Gary Carlson

--- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Will Beckett" <will@b...> wrote:
> All the batteries measure zero volts at the moment.  Do you expect
it is
> possible they could come back after a few charging cycles?  Looks
like my
> friend, Paul Schafer, in Novato, will be purchasing the car.  He
needs to
> talk to someone that has experience with a Force that has NiMH
batteries.
>
>
> - Will
>
> Will Beckett, membership
> 4189 Baker Ave.
> Palo Alto, CA  94306
> (650) 494-6922
>
> Become a member or donate to the Electric Auto Association,
donations are
> tax deductible. http://eaaev.org/eaamembership.html
>
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: Adams, Noel [mailto:noel.adams@p...]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:29 AM
> To: 'force_ev@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [force_ev] NiCad or NiMH Force owner?
>
>
> NiMH has a very high self discharge rate so I would expect they
would be in
> pretty bad shape.
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: Tom Hudson [mailto:tomhudson@e...]
> Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 7:43 PM
> To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [force_ev] NiCad or NiMH Force owner?
>
>
> If it's NiCDs, there would be no problem with it sitting -- You
could
> just do a maintenance charge or discharge the batteries and do a
> recommissioning charge, so that the charger is reset to the proper
> battery state.  Don't know about NiMH.
>
> -Tom
>
> Will Beckett wrote:
>
> >ZAP! has a NiCad or NiMH Force that a school ran in the Tour-de-
Sol.  I am
> >just wondering what condition the batteries might be in if the
car was just
> >in storage since that time.
> >
> >
> >-Will
> >
> >
> >
> --
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portdistrict5.org <http://portdistrict5.org>  -- 5th
District
> Aldermanic Website
> http://portev.org <http://portev.org>  -- Electric Vehicles, Solar
Power &
> More
> http://portgardenclub.org <http://portgardenclub.org>  -- Port
Washington
> Garden Club
> http://portlightstation.org <http://portlightstation.org>  --
Light Station
> Restoration
> http://klanky.com <http://klanky.com>  -- Animation Projects
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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> intended recipient and may contain privileged and confidential
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copying or
> distribution of this message or attachment is strictly
prohibited.  If you
> believe that you have received this e-mail in error, please
contact the
> sender
> immediately and delete the e-mail and all of its attachments.
>
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Yahoo! Groups Links

Turns out Paul was able to recover all but one cell and he has found a
source for replacement batteries.  There is a person in Arizona that got
many of the NiMH batteries from the EV-1 and has a method for replacing bad
cells in these packs.  You might want to go back to NiMH.  What kind of
range were you getting?


-Will

Will Beckett
Beckett PC Solutions
4189 Baker Ave.
Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908

(650) 494-6922 phone & fax
(650) 269-7011 cell
mailto:will@...
http://beckettpcsolutions.com <http://beckettpcsolutions.com/>

"Let me make it easy for you!"

a Business Network Int'l member http://www.paloaltobni.com
<http://www.paloaltobni.com/>

a member of the Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce http://www.paloaltochamber.com
<http://www.paloaltochamber.com/>

Support the arts, subscribe to West Bay Opera http://www.wbopera.org
<http://www.wbopera.org/>



   _____

From: Don Buckshot [mailto:buckshot@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 1:25 PM
To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [force_ev] Re: NiCad or NiMH Force owner?


Will,
I have all of the NiMH batteries removed from my Force. I had a couple of
bad cells and had Solectria convert the car to PbA. I would have really been
happy to be able to get replacement NiMH batteries to keep the longer range
an expected life but I couldn't find any.

If Paul gets stuck and his car is not able to be used at all, I would
consider selling him enough to get going.

Solectria told me they have built only 14 of the NiMH models.

Don Buckshot
913-789-0889
Kansas City

-----Original Message-----
From: Will Beckett [mailto:will@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 11:14 AM
To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [force_ev] Re: NiCad or NiMH Force owner?
Nice of you to ask.  Yes, Paul (Dr. Schafer, DDS) is almost there.  He used
a small charger to individually charge the batteries and all most all of
them came back.  He has one bad cell that needs to be replaced and he is
working on that.  His Brusa charger is not working, however.  So he is not
able to use the car for general day to day stuff yet.  We are currently
trouble shooting this and hope to get it working soon.
-Will

Will Beckett
Beckett PC Solutions
4189 Baker Ave.
Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908

(650) 494-6922 phone & fax
(650) 269-7011 cell
mailto:will@...
http://beckettpcsolutions.com <http://beckettpcsolutions.com/>

"Let me make it easy for you!"

a Business Network Int'l member http://www.paloaltobni.com
<http://www.paloaltobni.com/>

a member of the Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce http://www.paloaltochamber.com
<http://www.paloaltochamber.com/>

Support the arts, subscribe to West Bay Opera http://www.wbopera.org
<http://www.wbopera.org/>



   _____

From: gjc02000 [mailto:gjc0@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 7:57 AM
To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [force_ev] Re: NiCad or NiMH Force owner?



Mr. Beckett:

What happened with those dead NiMH batteries?  Were you able to
bring them back to life?

How is Mr. Schafer doing with the car?  Is he on the road?

Sincerely,
Gary Carlson

--- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Will Beckett" <will@b...> wrote:
> All the batteries measure zero volts at the moment.  Do you expect
it is
> possible they could come back after a few charging cycles?  Looks
like my
> friend, Paul Schafer, in Novato, will be purchasing the car.  He
needs to
> talk to someone that has experience with a Force that has NiMH
batteries.
>
>
> - Will
>
> Will Beckett, membership
> 4189 Baker Ave.
> Palo Alto, CA  94306
> (650) 494-6922
>
> Become a member or donate to the Electric Auto Association,
donations are
> tax deductible. http://eaaev.org/eaamembership.html
>
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: Adams, Noel [mailto:noel.adams@p...]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:29 AM
> To: 'force_ev@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [force_ev] NiCad or NiMH Force owner?
>
>
> NiMH has a very high self discharge rate so I would expect they
would be in
> pretty bad shape.
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: Tom Hudson [mailto:tomhudson@e...]
> Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 7:43 PM
> To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [force_ev] NiCad or NiMH Force owner?
>
>
> If it's NiCDs, there would be no problem with it sitting -- You
could
> just do a maintenance charge or discharge the batteries and do a
> recommissioning charge, so that the charger is reset to the proper
> battery state.  Don't know about NiMH.
>
> -Tom
>
> Will Beckett wrote:
>
> >ZAP! has a NiCad or NiMH Force that a school ran in the Tour-de-
Sol.  I am
> >just wondering what condition the batteries might be in if the
car was just
> >in storage since that time.
> >
> >
> >-Will
> >
> >
> >
> --
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portdistrict5.org <http://portdistrict5.org>  -- 5th
District
> Aldermanic Website
> http://portev.org <http://portev.org>  -- Electric Vehicles, Solar
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Don,

What dimensions are your Nimh cells? Do they have any rating listed on
them? I have a couple of chargers that also have discharge capability.
so battery capacity can be determined thru cycling. I am interested in
seeing what their capacity is being this old and if maybe a dead one
can be resurrected.

Will,

If you have any dead cells I could borrow for the sake of testing. My
chargers only put out up to 5 amps. They are smart chargers. I see you
at the Silicone Valley meeting on each third Sat. I was just elected
VP of EAA SJ yesterday. Anyway, my goal is to get familiar with these
cells as I wish to use nimh in my future project vehicles.

Mike Phillips



--- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Don Buckshot" <buckshot@p...> wrote:
> Will,
> I have all of the NiMH batteries removed from my Force. I had a
couple of
> bad cells and had Solectria convert the car to PbA. I would have
really been
> happy to be able to get replacement NiMH batteries to keep the
longer range
> an expected life but I couldn't find any.
>
> If Paul gets stuck and his car is not able to be used at all, I would
> consider selling him enough to get going.
>
> Solectria told me they have built only 14 of the NiMH models.
>
> Don Buckshot
> 913-789-0889
> Kansas City
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Will Beckett [mailto:will@b...]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 11:14 AM
> To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [force_ev] Re: NiCad or NiMH Force owner?
> Nice of you to ask.  Yes, Paul (Dr. Schafer, DDS) is almost there.
He used
> a small charger to individually charge the batteries and all most all of
> them came back.  He has one bad cell that needs to be replaced and he is
> working on that.  His Brusa charger is not working, however.  So he
is not
> able to use the car for general day to day stuff yet.  We are currently
> trouble shooting this and hope to get it working soon.
> -Will
>
> Will Beckett
> Beckett PC Solutions
> 4189 Baker Ave.
> Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908
>
> (650) 494-6922 phone & fax
> (650) 269-7011 cell
> mailto:will@b...
> http://beckettpcsolutions.com <http://beckettpcsolutions.com/>
>
> "Let me make it easy for you!"
>
> a Business Network Int'l member http://www.paloaltobni.com
> <http://www.paloaltobni.com/>
>
> a member of the Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce
http://www.paloaltochamber.com
> <http://www.paloaltochamber.com/>
>
> Support the arts, subscribe to West Bay Opera http://www.wbopera.org
> <http://www.wbopera.org/>
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: gjc02000 [mailto:gjc0@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 7:57 AM
> To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [force_ev] Re: NiCad or NiMH Force owner?
>
>
>
> Mr. Beckett:
>
> What happened with those dead NiMH batteries?  Were you able to
> bring them back to life?
>
> How is Mr. Schafer doing with the car?  Is he on the road?
>
> Sincerely,
> Gary Carlson
>
> --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Will Beckett" <will@b...> wrote:
> > All the batteries measure zero volts at the moment.  Do you expect
> it is
> > possible they could come back after a few charging cycles?  Looks
> like my
> > friend, Paul Schafer, in Novato, will be purchasing the car.  He
> needs to
> > talk to someone that has experience with a Force that has NiMH
> batteries.
> >
> >
> > - Will
> >
> > Will Beckett, membership
> > 4189 Baker Ave.
> > Palo Alto, CA  94306
> > (650) 494-6922
> >
> > Become a member or donate to the Electric Auto Association,
> donations are
> > tax deductible. http://eaaev.org/eaamembership.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   _____
> >
> > From: Adams, Noel [mailto:noel.adams@p...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:29 AM
> > To: 'force_ev@yahoogroups.com'
> > Subject: RE: [force_ev] NiCad or NiMH Force owner?
> >
> >
> > NiMH has a very high self discharge rate so I would expect they
> would be in
> > pretty bad shape.
> >
> >
> >   _____
> >
> > From: Tom Hudson [mailto:tomhudson@e...]
> > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 7:43 PM
> > To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [force_ev] NiCad or NiMH Force owner?
> >
> >
> > If it's NiCDs, there would be no problem with it sitting -- You
> could
> > just do a maintenance charge or discharge the batteries and do a
> > recommissioning charge, so that the charger is reset to the proper
> > battery state.  Don't know about NiMH.
> >
> > -Tom
> >
> > Will Beckett wrote:
> >
> > >ZAP! has a NiCad or NiMH Force that a school ran in the Tour-de-
> Sol.  I am
> > >just wondering what condition the batteries might be in if the
> car was just
> > >in storage since that time.
> > >
> > >
> > >-Will
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > --
> > Thomas Hudson
> > http://portdistrict5.org <http://portdistrict5.org>  -- 5th
> District
> > Aldermanic Website
> > http://portev.org <http://portev.org>  -- Electric Vehicles, Solar
> Power &
> > More
> > http://portgardenclub.org <http://portgardenclub.org>  -- Port
> Washington
> > Garden Club
> > http://portlightstation.org <http://portlightstation.org>  --
> Light Station
> > Restoration
> > http://klanky.com <http://klanky.com>  -- Animation Projects
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
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> pf=PLApply&media=EMYHNL40F21004SS> click
> > here
> >
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> M=315388.5543472.6613714.3001176/D=groups/S=
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> Service
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
> > --
> > The information in this e-mail and any attachments are for the
> sole use of
> > the
> > intended recipient and may contain privileged and confidential
> information.
> > If you are not the intended recipient, any use, disclosure,
> copying or
> > distribution of this message or attachment is strictly
> prohibited.  If you
> > believe that you have received this e-mail in error, please
> contact the
> > sender
> > immediately and delete the e-mail and all of its attachments.
> >
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> > ==
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
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> Service
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> Yahoo! Groups Links

It is not my car.  A friend of mine, Paul Schafer, just purchased the car
from ZAP and was able to recover the batteries.  He found only one bad
(shorted) cell in the pack.  He also found a person in Arizona that is
supplying used NiMH batteries but I don't have those details.


-Will

Will Beckett
Beckett PC Solutions
4189 Baker Ave.
Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908

(650) 494-6922 phone & fax
(650) 269-7011 cell
mailto:will@...
http://beckettpcsolutions.com <http://beckettpcsolutions.com/>

"Let me make it easy for you!"

a Business Network Int'l member http://www.paloaltobni.com
<http://www.paloaltobni.com/>

a member of the Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce http://www.paloaltochamber.com
<http://www.paloaltochamber.com/>

Support the arts, subscribe to West Bay Opera http://www.wbopera.org
<http://www.wbopera.org/>



   _____

From: Mike Phillips [mailto:mikep_95133@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 8:17 AM
To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [force_ev] Re: NiCad or NiMH Force owner?



Hi Don,

What dimensions are your Nimh cells? Do they have any rating listed on
them? I have a couple of chargers that also have discharge capability.
so battery capacity can be determined thru cycling. I am interested in
seeing what their capacity is being this old and if maybe a dead one
can be resurrected.

Will,

If you have any dead cells I could borrow for the sake of testing. My
chargers only put out up to 5 amps. They are smart chargers. I see you
at the Silicone Valley meeting on each third Sat. I was just elected
VP of EAA SJ yesterday. Anyway, my goal is to get familiar with these
cells as I wish to use nimh in my future project vehicles.

Mike Phillips



--- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Don Buckshot" <buckshot@p...> wrote:
> Will,
> I have all of the NiMH batteries removed from my Force. I had a
couple of
> bad cells and had Solectria convert the car to PbA. I would have
really been
> happy to be able to get replacement NiMH batteries to keep the
longer range
> an expected life but I couldn't find any.
>
> If Paul gets stuck and his car is not able to be used at all, I would
> consider selling him enough to get going.
>
> Solectria told me they have built only 14 of the NiMH models.
>
> Don Buckshot
> 913-789-0889
> Kansas City
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Will Beckett [mailto:will@b...]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 11:14 AM
> To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [force_ev] Re: NiCad or NiMH Force owner?
> Nice of you to ask.  Yes, Paul (Dr. Schafer, DDS) is almost there.
He used
> a small charger to individually charge the batteries and all most all of
> them came back.  He has one bad cell that needs to be replaced and he is
> working on that.  His Brusa charger is not working, however.  So he
is not
> able to use the car for general day to day stuff yet.  We are currently
> trouble shooting this and hope to get it working soon.
> -Will
>
> Will Beckett
> Beckett PC Solutions
> 4189 Baker Ave.
> Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908
>
> (650) 494-6922 phone & fax
> (650) 269-7011 cell
> mailto:will@b...
> http://beckettpcsolutions.com <http://beckettpcsolutions.com/>
>
> "Let me make it easy for you!"
>
> a Business Network Int'l member http://www.paloaltobni.com
> <http://www.paloaltobni.com/>
>
> a member of the Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce
http://www.paloaltochamber.com
> <http://www.paloaltochamber.com/>
>
> Support the arts, subscribe to West Bay Opera http://www.wbopera.org
> <http://www.wbopera.org/>
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: gjc02000 [mailto:gjc0@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 7:57 AM
> To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [force_ev] Re: NiCad or NiMH Force owner?
>
>
>
> Mr. Beckett:
>
> What happened with those dead NiMH batteries?  Were you able to
> bring them back to life?
>
> How is Mr. Schafer doing with the car?  Is he on the road?
>
> Sincerely,
> Gary Carlson
>
> --- In force_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Will Beckett" <will@b...> wrote:
> > All the batteries measure zero volts at the moment.  Do you expect
> it is
> > possible they could come back after a few charging cycles?  Looks
> like my
> > friend, Paul Schafer, in Novato, will be purchasing the car.  He
> needs to
> > talk to someone that has experience with a Force that has NiMH
> batteries.
> >
> >
> > - Will
> >
> > Will Beckett, membership
> > 4189 Baker Ave.
> > Palo Alto, CA  94306
> > (650) 494-6922
> >
> > Become a member or donate to the Electric Auto Association,
> donations are
> > tax deductible. http://eaaev.org/eaamembership.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   _____
> >
> > From: Adams, Noel [mailto:noel.adams@p...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:29 AM
> > To: 'force_ev@yahoogroups.com'
> > Subject: RE: [force_ev] NiCad or NiMH Force owner?
> >
> >
> > NiMH has a very high self discharge rate so I would expect they
> would be in
> > pretty bad shape.
> >
> >
> >   _____
> >
> > From: Tom Hudson [mailto:tomhudson@e...]
> > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 7:43 PM
> > To: force_ev@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [force_ev] NiCad or NiMH Force owner?
> >
> >
> > If it's NiCDs, there would be no problem with it sitting -- You
> could
> > just do a maintenance charge or discharge the batteries and do a
> > recommissioning charge, so that the charger is reset to the proper
> > battery state.  Don't know about NiMH.
> >
> > -Tom
> >
> > Will Beckett wrote:
> >
> > >ZAP! has a NiCad or NiMH Force that a school ran in the Tour-de-
> Sol.  I am
> > >just wondering what condition the batteries might be in if the
> car was just
> > >in storage since that time.
> > >
> > >
> > >-Will
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > --
> > Thomas Hudson
> > http://portdistrict5.org <http://portdistrict5.org>  -- 5th
> District
> > Aldermanic Website
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello I am new to the group and have a 1997 Force.

I was looking at how efficient my batteries are at charging. It is
right at 6Ah per hour or 1Ah in 10 minutes at 50 degrees. I bought
this with 14,500 and now have 15,500 miles. I believe the batteries
have never been changed. I was curious what others were getting?

Don

6 AH seems very low at least during the intial bulk charge phase.  If you are
averaging over the entire charge time until the charger goes to float, that
might be closer.   The 220 charger will start out close to 20 Amps and gradually
decay after the pack voltage reaches 183 volts.  Then it does a 10% overcharge
at 3 Amps up to 195 volts.

Are you charging on a 110 circuit?   I've never monitored my charger when
plugged into 110 so I can't tell you how fast it would charge.  The NLG4
generally should be plugged into a 220 circuit.  This is especially true now
with the winter coming because the thermal management system only works when you
are plugged into 220.

Stephen Taylor


theoldcars <theoldcars@...> wrote:
Hello I am new to the group and have a 1997 Force.

I was looking at how efficient my batteries are at charging. It is
right at 6Ah per hour or 1Ah in 10 minutes at 50 degrees. I bought
this with 14,500 and now have 15,500 miles. I believe the batteries
have never been changed. I was curious what others were getting?

Don




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I now have a set of 13 group 27 lithium batteries from Valence.  They fit easily
into my 1997 Force and  at 37 lbs apiece they make the car alot lighter.

I do have a question though.  The batteries have a battery management (BMU)
system that needs to be tied into the controller (Brusa 325) and the charger
(NLG4).  To essentially shut those items off if the battery managment system
detects a fault condition of any kind.  Does anybody know how I would go about
doing this.  Apparently the BMUs use a 12 volt source to send the all clear and
drop the 12 volt signal if there is a fault.  I've thought about tying in with
the charger interlock, but I can't see where the two signals could coexist
because as long as one wasn't at fault the controller would still see the 12
volt source and not shutdown.

Any ideas would be appreciated.  I've also contacted Solectria about this, but
it is always good to get multiple opinions.

Stephen Taylor


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stephen,

Sounds like what you need is a simple "AND" gate, which you could
probably construct using a 12V relay.  Do you know how much current the
BMU signal can supply?  If it is high enough, it could activate a relay
that would switch the charger interlock signal.  As long as the BMU says
the batteries are OK, the relay would be closed, and the charger
interlock signal would be provided to the controller.

I don't have my Solectria manual handy, but you'd want to be sure the
charger sends 12V when it's not plugged in and 0V when plugged in and
not the other way around, but in any case building a simple gate for
this purpose would be very simple.

-Tom

Stephen Taylor wrote:

>I now have a set of 13 group 27 lithium batteries from Valence.  They fit
easily into my 1997 Force and  at 37 lbs apiece they make the car alot lighter.
>
>I do have a question though.  The batteries have a battery management (BMU)
system that needs to be tied into the controller (Brusa 325) and the charger
(NLG4).  To essentially shut those items off if the battery managment system
detects a fault condition of any kind.  Does anybody know how I would go about
doing this.  Apparently the BMUs use a 12 volt source to send the all clear and
drop the 12 volt signal if there is a fault.  I've thought about tying in with
the charger interlock, but I can't see where the two signals could coexist
because as long as one wasn't at fault the controller would still see the 12
volt source and not shutdown.
>
>Any ideas would be appreciated.  I've also contacted Solectria about this, but
it is always good to get multiple opinions.
>
>Stephen Taylor
>
>

--
Thomas Hudson
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http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
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Hello Stephen

Good to hear from you. This is the bulk charge rate on 220. I have only  used
110 two times it takes forever. It is outside at 50 to 60 degrees  would the
thermal management system be taking some of the power from the charge  to the
batteries?

Don

In a message dated 12/13/2004 5:39:46 AM Pacific Standard Time,
sparrow262@... writes:

6 AH  seems very low at least during the intial bulk charge phase.  If you
are  averaging over the entire charge time until the charger goes to float, that
  might be closer.   The 220 charger will start out close to 20 Amps  and
gradually decay after the pack voltage reaches 183 volts.  Then it  does a 10%
overcharge at 3 Amps up to 195 volts.

Are you charging on a  110 circuit?   I've never monitored my charger when
plugged into 110  so I can't tell you how fast it would charge.  The NLG4
generally should  be plugged into a 220 circuit.  This is especially true now
with
the  winter coming because the thermal management system only works when you
are  plugged into 220.

Stephen Taylor






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I can not believe that the thermal management system would slow the charge rate
significantly.

Just to make sure I'm understanding you, what you said was after driving the car
say at least 10 AH,  that you plug the car into 220 and immediately start
timing.  After 10 minutes the car has only gone down 1 AH and after an hour only
6 AH, if that is the case then the below paragraph probably applies.  If you are
averaging over the entire charge time including the overcharge then your charger
is probably OK.

I have had an experience where for lack of a better word half the charger died,
but the other half kept on working.  When that happened the car would charge
slowly, but worse if I drove the car and used more than, I think 26 AH, the car
would not even fully charge.  For some reason the charger still thought it was
putting out almost 20 Amps when maybe it was putting out only 6 or 7.  As the
car was bulk charging it thought it was adding about 3 times as many AH as it
really was doing.  The charger programming is set to shut the charger down after
a certain number of AH (that number I think was in the range of 70 to 80AH) so
even though the batteries only received say 26 AH the charger thought it put in
78 AH and shutdown.  The problem being obviously that the batteries  would not
get fully charged on longer runs.  This could be your problem too.  Solectria
fixed my charger for $400 plus shipping.

There are many others with the technical knowledge here and experience who are
far more qualified to answer your question than me.  My knowledge has all been
as a user.  Anybody else want to tackle the problem?

Stephen Taylor







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I also fall into the user category not the techie one,
but I'm pretty sure my force charges at a rate closer
to 10AH/hour not 6.

Peter


--- Stephen Taylor <sparrow262@...> wrote:


---------------------------------
I can not believe that the thermal management system
would slow the charge rate significantly.

Just to make sure I'm understanding you, what you said
was after driving the car say at least 10 AH,  that
you plug the car into 220 and immediately start
timing.  After 10 minutes the car has only gone down 1
AH and after an hour only 6 AH, if that is the case
then the below paragraph probably applies.  If you are
averaging over the entire charge time including the
overcharge then your charger is probably OK.

I have had an experience where for lack of a better
word half the charger died, but the other half kept on
working.  When that happened the car would charge
slowly, but worse if I drove the car and used more
than, I think 26 AH, the car would not even fully
charge.  For some reason the charger still thought it
was putting out almost 20 Amps when maybe it was
putting out only 6 or 7.  As the car was bulk charging
it thought it was adding about 3 times as many AH as
it really was doing.  The charger programming is set
to shut the charger down after a certain number of AH
(that number I think was in the range of 70 to 80AH)
so even though the batteries only received say 26 AH
the charger thought it put in 78 AH and shutdown.  The
problem being obviously that the batteries  would not
get fully charged on longer runs.  This could be your
problem too.  Solectria fixed my charger for $400 plus
shipping.

There are many others with the technical knowledge
here and experience who are far more qualified to
answer your question than me.  My knowledge has all
been as a user.  Anybody else want to tackle the
problem?

Stephen Taylor







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Hello Stephen

That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.

I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one hour it was
down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little slow. I thought
maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has anyone timed how
fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from Solectria?

Don

In a message dated 12/13/2004 5:52:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,
sparrow262@... writes:

I can  not believe that the thermal management system would slow the charge
rate  significantly.

Just to make sure I'm understanding you, what you said  was after driving the
car say at least 10 AH,  that you plug the car into  220 and immediately
start timing.  After 10 minutes the car has only gone  down 1 AH and after an
hour
only 6 AH, if that is the case then the below  paragraph probably applies.
If you are averaging over the entire charge  time including the overcharge then
your charger is probably OK.

I have  had an experience where for lack of a better word half the charger
died, but  the other half kept on working.  When that happened the car would
charge  slowly, but worse if I drove the car and used more than, I think 26 AH,
the  car would not even fully charge.  For some reason the charger still
thought it was putting out almost 20 Amps when maybe it was putting out only 6 
or
7.  As the car was bulk charging it thought it was adding about 3  times as
many AH as it really was doing.  The charger programming is set  to shut the
charger down after a certain number of AH (that number I think was  in the range
of 70 to 80AH) so even though the batteries only received say 26  AH the
charger thought it put in 78 AH and shutdown.  The problem being  obviously that
the batteries  would not get fully charged on longer  runs.  This could be your
problem too.  Solectria fixed my charger  for $400 plus shipping.

There are many others with the technical  knowledge here and experience who
are far more qualified to answer your  question than me.  My knowledge has all
been as a user.  Anybody  else want to tackle the problem?

Stephen  Taylor







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Peter

Next time you come back after a trip could you time it?

Thanks
Don

In a message dated 12/13/2004 6:43:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
pbelden@... writes:


I  also fall into the user category not the techie one,
but I'm pretty sure my  force charges at a rate closer
to 10AH/hour not 6.

Peter





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and charging for
1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be around 6 AH give or
take.  It certainly sounds like your having a charger problem.  The AH meter
light must be blinking kind of slowly whereas it should be blinking very rapidly
early on.

Is the car getting a full charge?  How long did it take to complete the full 22
AH plus 10% overcharge?  If you have the half dead charger that I described in
my last message then if you went much further the charger would shutdown before
it even finished the charge.

Also didn't you have an AH meter problem.  Could the batteries be getting a
proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?

Stephen Taylor


theoldcars@... wrote:

Hello Stephen

That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.

I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one hour it was
down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little slow. I thought
maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has anyone timed how
fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from Solectria?

Don




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am planning on purchasing a Solectria EV.  I have
located a 2-door model, but actually would prefer a
4-door model.  If anyone has a 4-door for sale, please
e-mail me ASAP at

sharpanil@...

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You know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
think it would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
who can actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We depend on
them big time, and when something like this happens it is critical to
get them repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has anyone
qualified to do serious work on them.

Comments? Suggestions?

One thing Don should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
charger's 9-pin port and see what the readings are for voltage, current,
battery temperature, etc. If the charger thinks the batteries are too
hot, it will reduce the charge rate, IIRC. Could be several reasons for
the symptoms he's having. He'll need the Brusa monitor program for this.

-Tom

Stephen Taylor wrote:

>I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22 AH and charging for
1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be around 6 AH give or
take.  It certainly sounds like your having a charger problem.  The AH meter
light must be blinking kind of slowly whereas it should be blinking very rapidly
early on.
>
>Is the car getting a full charge?  How long did it take to complete the full 22
AH plus 10% overcharge?  If you have the half dead charger that I described in
my last message then if you went much further the charger would shutdown before
it even finished the charge.
>
>Also didn't you have an AH meter problem.  Could the batteries be getting a
proper charge, but the AH meter isn't registering it properly?
>
>Stephen Taylor
>
>
>theoldcars@... wrote:
>
>Hello Stephen
>
>That is correct 1 Ah per 10 minutes and 6 Ah in an hour.
>
>I drove the car to 22 Ah and put the charger on 220 After one hour it was
>down to 18 Ah. I timed it because I though it looked a little slow. I thought
>maybe the batteries being cold or old or both is why. So has anyone timed how
>fast they do recharge after a trip or is there some specs from Solectria?
>
>Don
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
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The AH meter was having problems before but that has not happened for a
while and it never affected the charging rate.

I just took it for a short trip. I noticed the regen was going very fast
back into the pack. As fast as the charger use to work. So I got  back and
hooked
up to 220. It started charging slow then it went fast for a  second then it
went slow. I tried unplugging it and again and it is just  charging slow only.
Last night it took 14 hours and it was still not charged all  the way from a
23 AH drive. So something is wrong am I going to have to  send this to
Solectria?

Does anyone have the Brusa program that I can load on to my computer  for
this?

Don


In a message dated 12/14/2004 3:11:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
tomhudson@... writes:

You  know, given the "issues" we are having with chargers and such, I
think it  would be a good idea to see if we can find someone in the US
who can  actually diagnose and repair these Brusa chargers. We depend on
them big  time, and when something like this happens it is critical to
get them  repaired quickly. I don't even think Solectria has anyone
qualified to do  serious work on them.

Comments? Suggestions?

One thing Don  should do, if he can, is hook a computer up to the
charger's 9-pin port and  see what the readings are for voltage, current,
battery temperature, etc.  If the charger thinks the batteries are too
hot, it will reduce the charge  rate, IIRC. Could be several reasons for
the symptoms he's having. He'll  need the Brusa monitor program for this.

-Tom

Stephen Taylor  wrote:

>I haven't kept track with exact numbers, but after using 22  AH and charging
for 1 hour using 220 volts I would guess my AH meter would be  around 6 AH
give or take.  It certainly sounds like your having a charger  problem.  The AH
meter light must be blinking kind of slowly whereas it  should be blinking
very rapidly early on.
>
>Is the car getting a  full charge?  How long did it take to complete the
full 22 AH plus 10%  overcharge?  If you have the half dead charger that I
described in my  last message then if you went much further the charger would
shutdown before  it even finished the charge.
>
>Also didn't you have an AH meter  problem.  Could the batteries be getting a
proper charge, but the AH  meter isn't registering it properly?
>
>Stephen  Taylor





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]