Interesting comments from Nich on bus lane and London-- even more
interesting-- the link to the report has vanished
(404)...coincidentally, beside it is an entire tab full of (active)
Cycling links.....

As a cyclist myself (my mode of transport for my months in
Edinburgh), i have found that cycling in Edinburgh bus lanes is a
fraught experience and i avoid them and ride in the traffic lanes for
sheer safety and comfort now.... Id be happy to use a m/c in bus
lanes- but after my experiences on a bicycle -- Id only use a head
down bums up style of machine in a bus lane in future-- its just too
uncomfortable and constrained on an 'ordinary' (no longer of course--
such 'dutch' bicycles are hard to find in shops in both ends of the
world these days- Ive just been trying!)  upright bicycle

marcus Wigan
Edinburgh and Melbourne (in th latetr today)

n1chb asked
> perhaps Ross would like to work-up a proposal for a campaign to
> help break-down the barriers of mistrust and misunderstanding between
> the two-wheeled modes?

no thanks. both modes have two (or more) wheels but there the similarity
ends. they should not be lumped together in theory or in practice. the
differences are (in case you missed them):

PTWs: heavy, mechanically propelled, capable of rapid acceleration and high
top speed, no health benefit to the user, a risk to both user and others,
polluting

Pedal Cycles: light, human powered, gentle acceleration to a reasonable
speed, good cardiovascular exercise for the whole body giving a health
benefot that outweighs the risk of using the mode, zero pollution. Here's
what central London's emergency services say about them
http://www.streamcity.co.uk/clients/transport/bikes.htm

Surrey CC with TRL has (25/05/05) launched guidance on Vehicle
Activated Signs.

Go to www.vasuk.info

--- In ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com, "rc015b9785"
<rc015b9785@b...> wrote:

> Pedal cycle users will probably want to put clear space
> between themselves and noisy motorised traffic creating fumes in
ASLs
> at the head of traffic queues waiting to zoom away. That is why
ASLs
> were invented, after all, so that pedal cycles can move off safely
> and be seen to do so.

From my own experience of uirban cycling I can state with some
certainty that even a fully respected ASL is neither blissfully
peaceful nor odour-free.  The real issue, as I said before is safety
not comfort or convenience.  The key justifications for providing
Cycle-users with an ASL are the same as for providing Motorcycle
access to ASLs.

Ross states 'TfL's data for their
> PTW-friendly trial lanes show that the number of accidents in the
> trail bus lanes goes up.'

The truth is that collisions were significantly reduced on these
routes.  The  migration of motorcycle collisions into the bus lanes
(which motorcyclists were not previously permitted to use) amounted
to an extra 8 motorcycle collisions in the actual bus-lane, but 31
fewer outside the bus lane.
The net casualty reduction of 6.7% on the experimental routes was
acheived against a 13% increase in general traffic, a 6.6% increase
in motorcycle usage and a 19.7% increase in peak-hour average cycle
flows - so much for nasty smelly noisy motorcycles discouraging
cyclists!

You can find the TfL report on the experiment at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/streets/downloads/pdf/LRSR/Research_Reports/Ptw-
bus-lane-project-2004-results.pdf.  This clearly shows that on the
four trial bus lane routes, collisions both in general and those
involving motorcycles have fallen (by 9% and 11% respectively, also
compare this with the worse performance of -6.5 and 0% on the control
routes chosen by TfL for comparison).

Ross asks
> > 'Would the BMF support a campaign to discourage PTW users from
> illegally abusing ASLs?'
> e silentio, I guess not. I cant believe the BMF arent taking an
avid interest in this e-list. MCIA studiously avoided the question
too.

I didn't respond to this because the question was directed at BMF not
MCIA - I'll pass it on to MCIA colleagues responsible for campaigning
work, perhaps Ross would like to work-up a proposal for a campaign to
help break-down the barriers of mistrust and misunderstanding between
the two-wheeled modes?

Finally, the advice that;
> "no where to get except through me" attitude would be
> DWDCA to the courts and goodbye license, hallo Pentonville? In law,
a
> PTW rider would have no right to do anything other than wait for
the
> cyclist to proceed.

Thanks for that Ross, that's a great comfort to me, I'll bear it in
mind the next time I'm in an ASL and a filtering motorcyclist ends-up
squeezed between my rear tyre and two lorries - but on balance I'd
still prefer to have the motorcycle to my side, it's one less thing
to worry about.

> > To stimulate the debate further. If the above question is asked I
think the following question should be asked, 'Would cycling
organisations, such as the CTC, be prepared to support a campaign to
discourage cyclists from ignoring traffic signals?' < <

Probably - try asking them via their websites. Eg try
http://www.lcc.org.uk/ and report the discussion via the IHT's
Special Interest Groups (http://www.iht.org.uk/), say, in the
interests of debate. However, PTWs cant make themselves appear
innocuous merely by finger pointing at others, but exploring the
reasons pedal cycles dont want to share ASLs with PTWs is a good
point. Pedal cycle users will probably want to put clear space
between themselves and noisy motorised traffic creating fumes in ASLs
at the head of traffic queues waiting to zoom away. That is why ASLs
were invented, after all, so that pedal cycles can move off safely
and be seen to do so.

> > Where it is recognised that many PTW riders abuse the regulations
of ASLs and bus lanes, however many cyclists do themselves no favours
by completely disrespecting the rules of the road.< <

Is there a difference between 'abuse' and 'completely disrespecting'?
but anyway, there is a law about crossing a solid transervse line
when the signals are red, punishable by 3 points and a fine and it's
just not enforced, so pedal cyclists see their space (that's the road
space with cycle symbols on it, between the solid lines) commonly
unfairly obstructed by motor vehicles which also pollute the air
cyclists breathe and laws for their benefit not enforced. So perhaps
some cyclists cant see the point in doing their choice of mode a PR
favour in the hope that laws for their own benefit might be enforced
and can see a point in defending their own space (that's the
comfort /safety zone around them that's being squeezed). There may
also be a self-defence claim in certain circumstances.

> > I believe it to be the safest compromise of options available to
highway engineers. < <

Sounds like pedal cycles (no pollution, quiet, health benefit that
outweighs the risk of use, few parking problems) makes the compromise
for the benefit of PTWs (pollution, noise, no health benefit, quite a
risk to PTW users and others, potentially choc-a-bloc parking bays or
unsightly on-curtilege parking)

> In London Borough of Sutton, where I have been working on a PTW
road safety campaign, accident data shows that poor visibility of
filtering motorcyclists is the cause of a large  proportion of PTW
accidents. <

Publish it here then, please

>Allowing them access to bus lanes and ASLs would increase the
visibility other road users have of PTWs and help in reducing the
number of urban accidents.<

Please do publish this reasoning here too, but TfL's data for their
PTW-friendly trial lanes show that the number of accidents in the
trail bus lanes goes up. So, robbing peter to pay paul as well as
asking peter to 'do himself some favours' too?

> 'Would the BMF support a campaign to discourage PTW users from
illegally abusing ASLs?'<

e silentio, I guess not. I cant believe the BMF arent taking an avid
interest in this e-list. MCIA studiously avoided the question too. By
the way, a "no where to get except through me" attitude would be
DWDCA to the courts and goodbye license, hallo Pentonville? In law, a
PTW rider would have no right to do anything other than wait for the
cyclist to proceed.

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'Would the BMF support a campaign to discourage PTW
users from illegally abusing ASLs?'

To stimulate the debate further. If the above question is asked I
think
the following question should be asked, 'Would cycling organisations,
such as the CTC, be prepared to support a campaign to discourage
cyclists from ignoring traffic signals?'

Where it is recognised that many PTW riders abuse the regulations of
ASLs and bus lanes, however many cyclists do themselves no favours by
completely disrespecting the rules of the road.

I believe it to be the safest compromise of options available to
highway engineers. In London Borough of Sutton, where I have been
working on a PTW road safety campaign, accident data shows that poor
visibility of filtering motorcyclists is the cause of a large
proportion of PTW accidents. Allowing them access to bus lanes and
ASLs
would increase the visibility other road users have of PTWs and help
in
reducing the number of urban accidents.

Hi,

Sure, the use of bus lanes is, if seen from a certain point of view (the PTW
user), a valid alternative. But if seen from the viewpoint of pedestrians or
cyclist I must agree this use isn't valid at all. Especially given the low
share of PTW's in de modal split. Because of this other roaduser don't
expect to encounter PTW's on bus lanes.

The negative viewpoint on the topic of air quality is something I disagree
on. It is not the right way to compare PTW's with for instance cyclist. Not
only because thier normal usage in terms of cruising distance can't be
compared. It is to my opinion better to compare PTW's with cars. Especially
if taken into account the very low occupancy rates of most cars and the fact
that many car trips have no longer trip length than 7.5 kilometres (in the
Netherlands for instance this accounts for 50% of all car trips). Certainly
on this trip lengths PTW's can become a good alternative. Nevertheless it is
always better to convince a car driver to take a bicycle. But this is in
many cases a hard job.

Greetings, Johan

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com]Namens rc015b9785
Verzonden: woensdag 18 mei 2005 19:06
Aan: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: [ihie_guidelines] PTWs in motorway lanes good, PTWs in urban
bus lanes bad?


In an effort to stimulate debate on this site/list, below is a
response to Jeff Stone's letter in Transporation Professional May
2005:

Jeff Stone makes a valid point about motorway HOV lanes. I myself
have used the M4 bus lane on numerous occasions and found it to be
very convenient, though many other motorcycles I have noticed have
been ridden faster than the posted speed limit.

Jeff makes a number of mistakes in his letter concerning PTWs. You
may be able to park '4 medium sized motorcycles in the space of a
family car' but I've never seen any PTWs being ridden this way and
would be concerned if I did. At the end of PTW journeys, each rider
may not have 'maximum freedom' if the lack of parking space is a
major problem.

There are good reasons why PTWs are not allowed universal access to
bus lanes. Large numbers of pedestrians and pedal cycles not
expecting PTWs in bus lanes is one of them. The high power, fast
acceleration of PTWs and dubious riding skills of some PTW users are
others. There are other modes which don't suffer PTWs' parking
problems, which have a health benefit for the user and which don't
contribute to poor air quality as PTWs do. I would ask Jeff to think
of the obnoxious fumes pedal cyclists breathe from the exhausts of
PTWs abusing their ASLs, seemingly with impunity, before he labels
PTWs as 'ideal'. Would the BMF support a campaign to discourage PTW
users from illegally abusing ASLs?

PTWs can be a 'mainstream mode' though PTW use will have to increase
way beyond the current national levels of 2% usage to make it so,
hopefully by not creating new users that were previously the users of
more benign modes.






Yahoo! Groups Links

In an effort to stimulate debate on this site/list, below is a
response to Jeff Stone's letter in Transporation Professional May
2005:

Jeff Stone makes a valid point about motorway HOV lanes. I myself
have used the M4 bus lane on numerous occasions and found it to be
very convenient, though many other motorcycles I have noticed have
been ridden faster than the posted speed limit.

Jeff makes a number of mistakes in his letter concerning PTWs. You
may be able to park '4 medium sized motorcycles in the space of a
family car' but I've never seen any PTWs being ridden this way and
would be concerned if I did. At the end of PTW journeys, each rider
may not have 'maximum freedom' if the lack of parking space is a
major problem.

There are good reasons why PTWs are not allowed universal access to
bus lanes. Large numbers of pedestrians and pedal cycles not
expecting PTWs in bus lanes is one of them. The high power, fast
acceleration of PTWs and dubious riding skills of some PTW users are
others. There are other modes which don't suffer PTWs' parking
problems, which have a health benefit for the user and which don't
contribute to poor air quality as PTWs do. I would ask Jeff to think
of the obnoxious fumes pedal cyclists breathe from the exhausts of
PTWs abusing their ASLs, seemingly with impunity, before he labels
PTWs as 'ideal'. Would the BMF support a campaign to discourage PTW
users from illegally abusing ASLs?

PTWs can be a 'mainstream mode' though PTW use will have to increase
way beyond the current national levels of 2% usage to make it so,
hopefully by not creating new users that were previously the users of
more benign modes.

from http://www.traffic-answers.com/forum/index.php?topic=1330.0

>>>>On my favourite run I come into a small village and slow down to
30mph (honest). The road to the beach is on the left and I swing the
bike over to turn the 90 degree corner, the local council have been
busy over the winter months building - just round the corner the
biggest speed hump I have ever seen. Go over the speed hump at 45
degrees from the vertical - heart in mouth and backside twitching.
Who on earth designs these idiotic road humps has never rode a bike.
Oh well sensible people would'nt get a job with the local council
anyway.<<<<

Place: Ellington, Northumberland. Junction with Lynemouth Rd /
Cresswell Road. ( speed bump on Cresswell Rd) O.S. ref: 427750,591750
Streemap UK. http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?
x=427812&y=591935&z=1&sv=427750,591750&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searc
hp=newsearch.srf

>>>It seems councils have lost the plot. In my area they seem to have
a fanatical zeal to place traffic lights on small roundabouts. You
can sit for 5 minutes waiting for the lights to change when not only
can you see every junction but also every road approaching every
junction. It's just asking people to jump the lights, particularly at
quiet periods when you may not see another vehicle during the whole
process.<<<

>>I've said before that I firmly believe that every County Surveyor
should be a motorcyclist and should be required to ride all their
roads regularly in all weathers.I reckon we'd see some changes.<<

>Don't forget, two dangerous bends in a row can become a vicious
circle...  <

TRL is conducting a 3 year research project investigating current
training courses in order to identify examples of good practice and
provide guidelines for standardising core elements.

Lorna Pearce 01344 770 445.

A story currently circulating:
>Many motorcyclists have already anticipated [being able to use bus
lanes under a Conservative government] and use bus lanes widely.
[An] email on this was read out on LBC recently and [it] named Jamaica
Road, SE16 as being one example.  Later that very same day, a
motorcyclist hit a 14 year old cyclist in Jamaica Road, who was then
run over by a black-cab and killed.  Too early to state what the
police/CPS will do on what evidence there is and the  rider and cab
driver might face no charges.<
res ipsa loquitur?

I have uploaded some photos of the offending block paving in Whitley
Road (Streetmap OS grid reference is 435750,572250), Peoples
Democratic Republic of North Tyneside. The final overview photograph
is looking westward towards Park Avenue from approximately the corner
of Victoria terrace/Whitley Road, or, in local parlance, "beside the
paper shop"
Even car suspension clunks badly at each band of block paving, which
is a max. of 5.25 inches deep from the undisturbed tarmac and extends
over 3 linear feet of road (in engineering-speak).
Not good, obviously, but is there a foundation type that will avoid
the settlement problem with blocks in the highway? I've seen raised
tables in expensive granite setts go the same way too

> b) are aimed at bringing traffic into conflict - e.g. chicanes - I cannot
accept the argument(put by one IHIE road engineer at the IHIE workshop on
engineering roads for motorcycles) that 'engineering in conflict to slow
motorists down is acceptable'. A survey of the number of accidents at
chicanes (particularly where priority changes over a series of chicanes),
and the regular damage done to bollards etc as a result of 'conflict' makes
this point. <

reference for this research please, if published

> Do:
> 1) Allow motorcycles to use advanced stop zones at junctions and bus
lanes.<

motorcycles cars vans etc already abuse ASLs with impunity. ASLs are to let
pedal cycles be clearly seen at and moving off from traffic signals in
safety. not having to breathe the engine fumes from vehicles in front of
waiting pedal cycles would be nice. Newham have been doing some experiments
on PTW-friendly ASLs but I've yet to see any research that says this should
be applied everywhere

whether allowing PTWs use bus lanes for to improve safety is debatable.
Other vehicle drivers and pedestrians dont always expect PTWs to be in bus
lanes and can pull out across them (this has happened in Kings Road,
Reading, for example, approx 3 years ago, resulting in serious leg injuries
to the motorcyclist) Pedal cyclists are mostly against letting PTWs into bus
lanes and, given the motorcycle riding I witness in central London, I tend
to agree with them. Is the capacity for high speed and rapid acceleration so
desirable when slower vehicles & pedestrians are around? Noise may also be
an issue. Some bus lanes are narrow, especially at bus stops, where PTWs
will want to pass stationary buses, meaning lane discipline (ie switching
from one lane to another & back again etc) may deteriorate. What happens at
the entrance & exits to bus lanes has also to be considered. Consider the
accident records for all road users - TfL's trials seems to have increased
the number of PTW accidents that happen in the bus lanes, but with who?
there are other factors too, such as do all the bus lanes down a particular
route operate at consistent times? can PTWs make progress without being
allowed to use a bus lane

> 6) Use modern technology to achieve desired results. E.g. in Surrey Heath,
> the use of signs that light up to warn motorists that they are exceeding
> posted limits has led to a reduction in speed without any damage to
vehicles
> from speed humps and without motorists being fined and having points on
> their licences.

again, any published research?

> This technology could also be used to reduce speeds in the
> vicinity of schools (e.g. 20 mph) during school hours, but would allow
> vehicles to travel at 30 mph outside those hours and during holidays when
> the schools are not in use.

variable speed limits on local roads - easily understood?

> This all assumes that the contribution that motorcycles can make towards
reducing traffic congestion is accepted!!!<

unless motorcycles seem so attractive to existing public transport users
that more vehicles are put on the road and they're used more? is it
conceivable that several PTWs can block a bus or vice versa? some of
London's bendy buses have 'hazard to pedal-cycles' stickers on the back -
would they be a hazard to PTWs too? (see
http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_roads/documents/page/dft_roads_507657.\
hcsp)

Johan,

My plea would be to avoid going down the path of engineering in obstacle
which:
a) cause instability and discomfort - e.g. vicious road humps, humps with
ramps at point where motorcycles are banking into corners/turns
b) are aimed at bringing traffic into conflict - e.g. chicanes - I cannot
accept the argument(put by one IHIE road engineer at the IHIE workshop on
engineering roads for motorcycles) that 'engineering in conflict to slow
motorists down is acceptable'. A survey of the number of accidents at
chicanes (particularly where priority changes over a series of chicanes),
and the regular damage done to bollards etc as a result of 'conflict' makes
this point. See point 5 in 'Do'.
c) reduce road width to the extent that motorcycles can no longer filter in
safety - e.g. introducing bus lanes which do not allow motorcycle use and
which restrict remainder of road to such an extent that filtering is
dangerous.

Do:
1) Allow motorcycles to use advanced stop zones at junctions and bus lanes.
2) Consider the condition of the road surface from a motorcylist's point of
view - get out and ride the roads.
3) place service /drain covers, etc off the riding line.
4) maintain road surface with 2 wheelers in mind - e.g. surface
imperfections that do not bother cars etc can be very dangerous to 2
wheelers (overbanding, height differences between two tarmac surfaces,
surface delamination, etc).
5) reduce the huge amount of visual pollution. The human brain can only
process so much. In 'conflict' situations, the more extraneous material is
having to be processed, the less capacity is left for dealing with the
situation. This is one reason why accident rates go up in bad weather, where
visual overload occurs.
6) Use modern technology to achieve desired results. E.g. in Surrey Heath,
the use of signs that light up to warn motorists that they are exceeding
posted limits has led to a reduction in speed without any damage to vehicles
from speed humps and without motorists being fined and having points on
their licences. This technology could also be used to reduce speeds in the
vicinity of schools (e.g. 20 mph) during school hours, but would allow
vehicles to travel at 30 mph outside those hours and during holidays when
the schools are not in use.

This all assumes that the contribution that motorcycles can make towards
reducing traffic congestion is accepted!!!

BTW - Whilst I plead the motorcyclists case in this instance I:
1 Ride a bicycle regularly
2 Ride a motorcycle regularly
3 Drive a car
4 Drive HGVs
5 Walk whenever I can.

Happy to elaborate.



Adrian Carey
B.Sc (Psychology), B.Eng (Motorcycle Engineering Design)
Yateley
Hampshire
e: adrian@...


-----Original Message-----
From: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Johan
Sent: 18 April 2005 22:09
To: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ihie_guidelines] A warm welcome from Holland



Just to make sure everybody knows. At this current moment we are
working on setting up European Guidelines for Motorcycle Roadway
Design. So if any of you have got any suggestions please let me know.

I will keep you all informed about our progressions and any other
developments.

Greetings,

Johan Janse
DTV Consultants
The Netherlands








Yahoo! Groups Links







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all the information on GB bike licenses is at
http://www.dsa.gov.uk/bikes.asp

moped entitlements used to be given with a full (car) driving license, but
that changed to needing a CBT too. if a moped is derestricted, it can
produce more power and speed but wont last long? I hear that mopeds can use
off-road cycle tracks in Holland (& it is compulsory for pedal cycles to use
these where they are provided?). I wouldn't like to have to share roadspace
with moped riders, nor would many pedal cyclist in London (see
http://www.lcc.org.uk)

> I am writing these guidelines for the ACEM. The scope of the guidelines
> isn't focused on a minimum cc size. All motorcycles should be taken into
> account. So when their are different aspect when looking at different
> motorcycles I would appreciate if you could let me know. In the
Netherlands
> for instance motorcycles below 50 cc. are of a different class. They may
be
> driven by 16 year old persons with only a theoretical permit. No need for
a
> driving test. MC's of 50 cc. or more are seen as fast moving traffic and
> there for the minimum age is 18 and a driving license is needed.

Hi Ross,

I am writing these guidelines for the ACEM. The scope of the guidelines
isn't focused on a minimum cc size. All motorcycles should be taken into
account. So when their are different aspect when looking at different
motorcycles I would appreciate if you could let me know. In the Netherlands
for instance motorcycles below 50 cc. are of a different class. They may be
driven by 16 year old persons with only a theoretical permit. No need for a
driving test. MC's of 50 cc. or more are seen as fast moving traffic and
therefor the minimum age is 18 and a driving license is needed.

Regards, Johan Janse


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com]Namens Ross Corben
Verzonden: dinsdag 19 april 2005 17:35
Aan: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ihie_guidelines] A warm welcome from Holland



Johan wrote > Just to make sure everybody knows. At this current moment we
are working on setting up European Guidelines for Motorcycle Roadway Design.
So if any of you have got any suggestions please let me know.<

who would you be designing for? in GB, motor vehicles <50cc aren't allowed
on Motorways, but that should at least be 125cc minimum, maybe even 250cc
minimum?





Yahoo! Groups Links

Hi Tony,

I know of the IHIE guidelines, because I visited their conference on the
14th of april. Nevertheless thank you for your reply. As for now I am taking
into account the present guidelines as has been published in the UK, Norway,
France, Germany, Belgium and The Netherlands. The Dutch version is made by
me. So if you need some information regarding this publication don't
hesitate to ask.

Greetings,

Johan Janse




-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com]Namens Tony Carter
Verzonden: dinsdag 19 april 2005 10:46
Aan: 'ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com'
Onderwerp: RE: [ihie_guidelines] A warm welcome from Holland




Johan,
I don't know if anyone has told you that, in the UK, the IHIE published
their guidelines last Thursday. If they have I apologise for the
duplication, if not, can I suggest you get a copy from IHIE?
FEMA (Federation of European Motorcyclists Associations) have requested
information too so, with IHIE's permission, I will put one in touch with
the other.
Regards (from the day job),
Tony Carter,
Local Government Liaison Officer,
Motorcycle Action Group UK.

-----Original Message-----
From: Johan [SMTP:j.a.janse@...]
Sent: 18 April 2005 22:09
To: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ihie_guidelines] A warm welcome  from Holland



Just to make sure everybody knows. At this current moment we are
working on setting up European Guidelines for Motorcycle Roadway
Design. So if any of you have got any suggestions please let me know.

I will keep you all informed about our progressions and any other
developments.

Greetings,

Johan Janse
DTV Consultants
The Netherlands








Yahoo! Groups Links











Yahoo! Groups Links

Richard,

I would agree with Nich in as much as I wouldn't favour the
Motorcycle warning sign and I don't believe it wouldn't alert
motorists to filtering bikes anyway. Several Authorities have over
the last year or so tried to tackle signs alerting drivers to the
fact that motorcycles use the road as well!! . My own (South Glos)
have favoured temporary (i.e black on yellow) signs Examples of which
are in the guidelines. You'll notice that, like a number of
authorities, we have used a subtly altered motorcycle rather than the
1960's `AVON faired triumph'
  On the subject of a sign for filtering how about a temporary sign
showing a m/c filtering between traffic? (working on the idea that a
lot of car drivers might not have an idea what filtering is!!)
Alternatively you could try the Derby bike in mirror sign. I'll try
and find a copy and upload it onto the 'files' section.


--- In ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com, "Nich Brown" <n.brown@m...>
wrote:
> Hi Richard
>
>
>
> Of the two I prefer the caution sign and supplementary plate - I
suspect
> it will be less difficult to get permission for and drivers should
be
> able to understand it better.
>
> The first - triangle - option seems more open to confusion and
suggests
> motorcycles in themselves are something we need to warn people
about!
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Pearson
> Sent: 19 April 2005 14:46
> To: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [ihie_guidelines] Message for discussion board (Pictures
would
> copy onto normal message post)
>
>
>
> As part of a PTW accident reduction campaign I am working on for
London
> borough of Sutton we discovered the common problem with London
traffic
> in that filtering motorcycles were being hit by cars emerging from
side
> roads  or turning right across their path into side roads due to
poor
> visibility as a result of queuing traffic.
>
>
>
> I had an idea to alert car drivers of this potential danger in the
form
> of a road sign that would face them while sitting at the giveway
line in
> the side road. See Below.
>
>
>
> Example Road Sign
>
>
>
>
>
> I consulted with a few colleagues who had recently completed a
study for
> DfT 'Understanding Traffic Signs' and told me that the DfT are
currently
> trying to reduce the number of road signs that currently exist. I
can
> understand reducing the number of signs when it comes to 'Migrating
> Toads' and 'Wild Horses or Ponies ahead', however I believe this
sign if
> implemented correctly could have serious road safety benefits.
>
>
>
> An alternative I came up with was the simple hazard plate with the
red
> triangle and the '!' with a plate reading 'Filtering Motorcycles'.
>
>
>
> Sign 562
>
> Filtering motorcycles
>
>
>
>
>
> Could I please have some feedback on what you think of these ideas
and
> if you agree, any ideas on how best these could be passed through as
> legal signs.
>
>
>
>
>
> Richard Pearson
>
> Senior Consultant
>
>
>
>
>
> Transportation Planning (International) Ltd
>
> Crystal Court, Rocky Lane, Aston, Birmingham B6 5RS
>
> Tel: 0121 333 3433 Fax: 0121 359 3200
>
> Email: richard.pearson@t...
>
>
>
>
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Johan wrote > Just to make sure everybody knows. At this current moment we
are working on setting up European Guidelines for Motorcycle Roadway Design.
So if any of you have got any suggestions please let me know.<

who would you be designing for? in GB, motor vehicles <50cc aren't allowed
on Motorways, but that should at least be 125cc minimum, maybe even 250cc
minimum?

Johan,
I don't know if anyone has told you that, in the UK, the IHIE published
their guidelines last Thursday. If they have I apologise for the
duplication, if not, can I suggest you get a copy from IHIE?
FEMA (Federation of European Motorcyclists Associations) have requested
information too so, with IHIE's permission, I will put one in touch with
the other.
Regards (from the day job),
Tony Carter,
Local Government Liaison Officer,
Motorcycle Action Group UK.

-----Original Message-----
From: Johan [SMTP:j.a.janse@...]
Sent: 18 April 2005 22:09
To: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ihie_guidelines] A warm welcome  from Holland



Just to make sure everybody knows. At this current moment we are
working on setting up European Guidelines for Motorcycle Roadway
Design. So if any of you have got any suggestions please let me know.

I will keep you all informed about our progressions and any other
developments.

Greetings,

Johan Janse
DTV Consultants
The Netherlands








Yahoo! Groups Links

Just to make sure everybody knows. At this current moment we are
working on setting up European Guidelines for Motorcycle Roadway
Design. So if any of you have got any suggestions please let me know.

I will keep you all informed about our progressions and any other
developments.

Greetings,

Johan Janse
DTV Consultants
The Netherlands

at http://www.trl.co.uk/static/dtlr/cycling/610summary.pdf
'Cars & Motorbikes' & 'Other Bus lane users' in section 4 p12, s4.1.4
p14, s4.4.4 p15, s4.5.4 p16 & p20: at best, 50% would be concerned if
PTWs were allowed to use the bus lane

Cyclists beware, as lorries enter bus lanes legally
Jon Fray
London Cyclist
April/May 2005
Cyclists are having to share bus lanes with motorcycles, scooters,
and even lorries, as pilot schemes take effect in some London
boroughs. Kingston Cycling Campaign (KCC) has queried the validity of
a scheme opening the bus lane on London Road to motorcycles and
scooters. The COuncil failed to monitor which vehicles used which
lanes before and after an eight-month trial last year. Nor had it
sought users' views or carried out an accident study. The council
conceded that its monitoring amounted to a count of how many
complaints it received.
Nearly three times as many bicycles use the bus lane as did powered
two wheelers (PTWs), according to KCC traffic surveys. Two-thirds of
motorcyclists opted not to use the bus lane where they were permitted
to do so. The chair of the committee that authorised the change, Cllr
Chrissie Hitchcock, said she had only ever seen one cyclist use the
bus lane in question. Drivers found it dificult to overtake her on
her scooter (restricted to 30mph) so PTWs should be allowed to use
bus lanes, she argued.
In Richmond, the council was due to allow lorries to use some bus
lanes by the end of March, as well as opening others to PTWs. Ir
explained that bus lanes could be opened to heavy goods vehicle
(HGVs) because the latter make up only a small proportion of the
traffic and could be easily distinguished from other vehicles. Merton
COuncil has also stated a desire to premit lorries to use bus lanes
this year, on the A24.
Richmond's programme this year includes pilot schemes allowing PTWs
to use bus lanes on the approach to the bus station in Richmond town
centre, and outside Twickenham railway station. Watch out for HGVs on
bus lanes on Hampton Court Road (Hampton Wick) and Hospital Bridge
Road (Whitton).

The UK Government's Motorcycling Strategy has now been published.
The strategy sets out to `mainstream' motorcycling with the core
theme being to Facilitate motorcycling as a choice of travel within a
safe and sustainable transport framework. It makes particular
reference to the IHIE Guidelines and the need to raise good practice
amongst high authorities

I have placed a copy on the YAHOO site

Related link/s

Motorcycles and Congestion: The effect of modal split
http://www.info4local.gov.uk/singleLink.asp?linkid=4219&heading=e%
2dmail%20alert

The project was to develop motorcycle ownership and mode choice
models reflecting choices between use of motorcycles and other modes
and incorporating them into existing transport models that could then
be used to assess the impact of motorcycles on the road network, and
their contribution to congestion relief.