ihie_guidelines : Messages : 141-185 of 251

Tony et al,

Having been through this and comparing it to the report produced in 2004 I must say that I am (at best) disappointed with the conclusions reached and this is for a number of reasons:

The latest report states that 'most cyclists are against the measure', yet in the previous study respondents clearly identified cars in the bus lane, behaviour of buses and roadworks as considerably more of a perceived problem for cyclists and indeed that actual reported incidents between cyclists and motorcyclists was very low - there seems to be a dramatic difference in the results of this 'market research';

Previous work showed that the use of bus lanes by non-permitted vehicles fell dramatically following the change to allow PTWs, there is no update or reference to this data;

The previous report identified increases in general traffic flow of 13% across all sites, and so has the dramatic reduction reported in the new report occured in the last 18 months? The previous report also had figures for the A41, yet these do not seem to be available for the latest report;

The previous report identified large increases in bus lane use by (now) permitted vehicles on the A13 of around 40% to 2004, yet the latest report shows that there was a decline in traffic using the bus lane between 2002-2004 and only an increase since 2004, there is no reference to the other sites

The conclusion from the 2004 report was that further casualty data was needed in order to make a robust assessment yet indicated that accident rates involving PTWs had not altered following implementation, yet the latest report states that the 'collision rate is too low to obtain statistically significant results', that 'the before and after data that do exist are of limited use in identifying effects of the changes' and that 'analysis of collision data provides generally inconclusive evidence' - yet still the report conclusion is that there are 'possible' negative effects.

As there are no accident rates to compare, just a percentage change in the number of accidents, it is not possible to determine how the reduction by 30% and 45%of two forms of accident compare to the increase by 33% and 40% of other forms of accident - this seems to be a crucial factor in the analysis and conclusions;

It is very disappointing that after 4 years of research and 2 reports there is still the conclusion that an extension of the trial period is required;

The final conclusion that 'the majority do not support the use of bus lanes by PTWs' is wholly unquantified and not supported by any data contained within this or any other report, there is no evidence from TfL buses or operators that this is the case and even the cyclist study of 2004 did not show this to be the case, indeed the complete opposite - only 7% of cyclists stated that removing PTWs would be an improvement.

The report does, however, highlight the FACTS that in the study area the PTW speeds are excessive, that there is a problem with PTWs approaching pedestrian facilities and a problem with right-turning vehicles turning through queues across the bus lane. I would suggest that this should lead to mitigation measures being trialled, such as speed cameras on the approaches to the pedestrian facilities where particular problems are being encountered (these may be justified through accident prevention), and the use of signs to warn drivers on the approach to a junction of the likelihood of oncoming traffic in the bus lane - but also to traffic in the bus lane to warn of the possibility of a right-turning vehicle.

The fault of this last category of incident is clearly that of the right-turning vehicle and would seem to be a problem regardless of permitted traffic. I understand that there is a perception that increasing the number of vehicles in the bus lane increases the likelihood of such an accident, yet I would suggest that increasing the volume of traffic gives greater presence to the bus lane and could increase drivers awareness of the possibility of opposing traffic. There is the problem, of course, that as most bus lanes in London do not permit use by PTWs, a driver may mistakenly believe in these instances that it is unreasonable to look for PTWs.

I am not convinced that the studies demonstrate anything other than that bus lane use by permitted vehicles goes up (at some point) and (without mitigating measures) accident type alters, and I am still concerned with what seems to be a general presumption against the use of bus lanes by PTWs regardless of extensive research resulting in 'inconclusive evidence' and the success of schemes in Bristol, Reading and other sites.

Regards,

Keith

Keith Firth

Associate Director

Colin Buchanan

Newminster House

27-29 Baldwin Street

Bristol

BS1 1LT

Tel 0117 917 0822

Fax 0117 925 1609

Mob 07885 827108

From: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Sharp
Sent: 03 October 2006 08:40
To: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ihie_guidelines] TfL publish report on 3 year study of Bus Lane Access

Transport for London has now reported back on their 3-year study
of `experimental' Motorcycle Access by Motorcycles into Bus Lanes.

I've posted the report in the file section

Regards

Tony Sharp

............................................................................................................................................................................................

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#184

From: "Tony Sharp" <tony.sharp@...>
Date: Tue Oct 3, 2006 7:40 am
Subject: TfL publish report on 3 year study of Bus Lane Access

ajmsharp

Offline

Transport for London has now reported back on their 3-year study
of `experimental' Motorcycle Access by Motorcycles into Bus Lanes.

I've posted the report in the file section

Regards

Tony Sharp

#182

From: "Brian Wood" <bmmwood@...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:58 pm
Subject: Re: Two new publications from the Devon Road Safety and Travel Awareness Team

bwood_cycles...

Offline

Jeremy,

Regarding your Group Riding guide you ask the question "Did we succeed?" Yes, you have. You have provided excellent advice in a style so as to not lose the joy of the ride.

My comments are based on a comparsion between your guide, a video produced by the Motorcycle Safety Foundation in the US. A recent DVD produced in New Zealand and our own brochures produced by the Motorcycle Council of NSW. http://www.mccofnsw.org.au/a/44.html

The MSF video I played once when I first received it, didn't like it and only recently viewed it again after obtaining the New Zealand version. The female voice over on the MSF video is Daria from the TV series of the same name. Daria is a very cynical character so I can't take any advice she gives seriously. Also, there is a strong emphasis on giving signals, I can't think of a less enjoyable riding experience than riding an interstate in a group with arms and legs all wildly flapping about.

The positives of your Guide are:-

1/ no mention of signals

2/ "Ride to the bike behind you, not the one in front", excellent advice not given in any of the other material I have seen

3/ Planning "the home run", again advice not given in other material

4/ "Riding Abroad" a riding experience Aussies, Kiwis and Yanks rarely get to experience.

Safe riding,

Brian Wood, Chair Road Safety Committee, Motorcycle Council of NSW

----- Original Message -----

From: dccroadsafety

To: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 6:56 PM

Subject: [ihie_guidelines] Two new publications from the Devon Road Safety and Travel Awareness Team

I've just uploaded our two most recent bike safety publications to
the Forum - our Summer 06 Newsletter and our guide to Group Riding.

The first is the latest in a series that we produce occassionally to
update local riders, groups and dealers about what actions we're
taking on their behalf and what's generally on topic (with local
implications) that we think they may otherwise have missed.

The rest of the series can be found here:

http://www.devon.gov.uk/index/transport/roads/road_safety/biker_safet
y/news_and_biker_views/biker_newsletter.htm

The second was produced because we've unfortunately lost a few
riders who were out on group rides (though the numbers remain fewer
than single vehicle incidents) and we wanted to make a first attempt
at introducing some ideas about managing rides for safety but
without losing the joy of the ride.

Did we succeed? Any thoughts on these would be very welcome.

Each is available in hard copy (the Guide in a handy, slip-in-your-
pocket size) so if anyone would like them in that format just let us
know at bikers@devon.gov.uk.

btw - the rest of our biker safety work - with the exception of our
new audit and inspection team project - is described on our bike
safety pages at:
http://www.devon.gov.uk/index/transport/roads/road_safety/biker_safet
y

Jeremy Phillips
Road Safety Operations Manager
Devon County Council

#181

From: Adrian Carey <adrian@...>
Date: Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:52 am
Subject: Re: Two new publications from the Devon Road Safety and Travel Awareness Team

adriancarey49

Offline

Hi Jeremy

Had a look at the publications.

Impressed. Informative. Encouraging.

Good work - keep it up. Nice to see a local authority encouraging biking and working at the safety aspect from all sides.

A couple of thoughts if I may:
1 Re graph of accidents by age group for 2004 in Summer 2005 - Do you have the statistics to compare number of accidents against number of riders in those age groups? If so - what does the graph look like then?
2 Re the point 'It is also acknowledged that there is a large under-reporting problem for young riders of bikes up to 50cc.'
My experience and research I undertook recently (whilst studying for a degree in Motorcycle Engineering Design Technology) leads me to suspect that there is a larger under-reported problem about minor spills in all age groups because of:
a) size of compulsory excess on insurance premiums - therefore no point in claiming
b) the desire to keep one's insurance record clean to avoid the number of 'incidents' leading to increased premiums.

I have witnessed and learned of a number of accidents where riders have skidded on manhole covers, diesel spills - and a couple of local roundabouts (roundabouts which are fine in the dry but become lethal in the wet as oil, etc seems to come to the surface - one can see cars drifting sideways at very modest speeds in the wet). The riders have not reported these for the above reasons. Incidentally this was an issue raised at the IHIE Motorcycle Guidelines seminar in London.

Re graph of 'Trends in Motorcycle Casualties graph. Once again - how do the trends stack up when viewed in the context of the numbers of riders in those years? Also the higher figure of deaths in 2004 (whilst worrying) could be a blip - the issue of 'regression to the mean' !

'Rider's eye view' (Summer 2006) - GREAT - let's have more of this sort of initiative.

Re warning signs re biker deaths on A377 - I have been involved in a number of discussions with non bikers about biking accidents. I fear that most of them see bike accidents as nothing to do with them (i.e. non-bikers) and they take no notice of signs with bikes on ("nothing to do with me"). - I think the response from the BMF and MAG to the recent TfL campaign on TV and the web (which shows the bike hitting a car door) raises this very issue.

I don't have an answer, but the degree of complacency and even antagonism one can encounter amongst car/van drivers is quite scary. The suggestion that every driver should have to ride a motorcycle before they can get a car licence may have some merit. One definitely gets a different perspective when riding a bike. (See 'Riders Eye View'

Given that getting everyone to ride a bike first is almost certainly a non-starter, perhaps we could come at this from a different perspective. How about a variant of the 'Rider Risk Reduction Course' for car drivers who are contribute to accidents (e.g. SMIDSY) involving motorcyclists (fatal or not). These drivers should be given the opportunity to take their CBT and a Driver Risk Reduction Course. This might open a few eyes and would certainly make them more aware of PTW riders.

It brings to mind the letter in the latest MAG magazine "The Road" (issue 6 Sept-Oct) from Roy Buchanan (Principal Road Safety Officer, LB of Sutton) who reports a conversation with another diner at a guest house in France:
"A driver sharing the dinner table at a guest house in France told me, with considerable venom, that she would force a motorcyclist down a precipice if she thought she could get away with it. I pointed out that this would leave my 12 year old son, also sitting at the table, without a father, She replied that it is my fault for riding a motorcycle."
I haven't experience 'quite' this degree of venom...but!!!

Regards

Adrian Carey (BEng - Motorcycle Design Technology)

At 09:56 23/08/2006, you wrote:

I've just uploaded our two most recent bike safety publications to
the Forum - our Summer 06 Newsletter and our guide to Group Riding.

The first is the latest in a series that we produce occassionally to
update local riders, groups and dealers about what actions we're
taking on their behalf and what's generally on topic (with local
implications) that we think they may otherwise have missed.

The rest of the series can be found here:

http://www.devon.gov.uk/index/transport/roads/road_safety/biker_safet
y/news_and_biker_views/biker_newsletter.htm

The second was produced because we've unfortunately lost a few
riders who were out on group rides (though the numbers remain fewer
than single vehicle incidents) and we wanted to make a first attempt
at introducing some ideas about managing rides for safety but
without losing the joy of the ride.

Did we succeed? Any thoughts on these would be very welcome.

Each is available in hard copy (the Guide in a handy, slip-in-your-
pocket size) so if anyone would like them in that format just let us
know at bikers@....

btw - the rest of our biker safety work - with the exception of our
new audit and inspection team project - is described on our bike
safety pages at:
http://www.devon.gov.uk/index/transport/roads/road_safety/biker_safet
y

Jeremy Phillips
Road Safety Operations Manager
Devon County Council

#180

From: "dccroadsafety" <jeremy.phillips@...>
Date: Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:56 am
Subject: Two new publications from the Devon Road Safety and Travel Awareness Team

dccroadsafety

Offline

I've just uploaded our two most recent bike safety publications to
the Forum - our Summer 06 Newsletter and our guide to Group Riding.

The first is the latest in a series that we produce occassionally to
update local riders, groups and dealers about what actions we're
taking on their behalf and what's generally on topic (with local
implications) that we think they may otherwise have missed.

The rest of the series can be found here:

http://www.devon.gov.uk/index/transport/roads/road_safety/biker_safet
y/news_and_biker_views/biker_newsletter.htm

The second was produced because we've unfortunately lost a few
riders who were out on group rides (though the numbers remain fewer
than single vehicle incidents) and we wanted to make a first attempt
at introducing some ideas about managing rides for safety but
without losing the joy of the ride.

Did we succeed?  Any thoughts on these would be very welcome.

Each is available in hard copy (the Guide in a handy, slip-in-your-
pocket size) so if anyone would like them in that format just let us
know at bikers@....

btw - the rest of our biker safety work - with the exception of our
new audit and inspection team project - is described on our bike
safety pages at:
http://www.devon.gov.uk/index/transport/roads/road_safety/biker_safet
y

Jeremy Phillips
Road Safety Operations Manager
Devon County Council

#177

From: "Keith Firth" <keith.firth@...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:14 am
Subject: RE: Alternative campaign

keithfirth

Offline

Might be easier to visit sniffpetrol.com and go through the archives - issues 39-42 deal with the moped/ scooter campaign. Be advised - not for the easily shocked.

Keith Firth

Associate Director

Colin Buchanan

Newminster House

27-29 Baldwin Street

Bristol

BS1 1LT

Tel 0117 917 0822

Fax 0117 925 1609

Mob 07885 827108

keith.firth@cbuchanan.co.uk

From: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Colbron, Stuart L
Sent: 22 August 2006 11:43
To: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [ihie_guidelines] Alternative campaign

I cant see any of the pictures!

Stuart L. Colbron
Senior Road Safety Engineer
Atkins Highways and Transportation
Threadneedle House, 9-10 Market Road,
Chelmsford, Essex. CM1 1JQ.
Tel: +44 (0)1245 245145
Fax: +44 (0)1245 345010
Mob: +44 (0) 7834 483423
Email: stuart.colbron@atkinsglobal.com

From: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Keith Firth
Sent: 22 August 2006 11:21
To: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ihie_guidelines] Alternative campaign

Not sure if you are familiar with the Sniff Petrol campaign - see attached.

Keith Firth

Associate Director

Colin Buchanan

Newminster House

27-29 Baldwin Street

Bristol

BS1 1LT

Tel 0117 917 0822

Fax 0117 925 1609

Mob 07885 827108

From: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Sharp
Sent: 26 July 2006 08:43
To: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SPAM [Header Check]] - [ihie_guidelines] New TfL Video - Email found in subject

Have just seen the new TfL video

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/streets/roadsafety-p2w-video.shtml

Operating within the context that they do I think TfL have done a good
job on this one.

Needless to say the MCN forum has the completely opposite view!!
What do others on this site think??

............................................................................................................................................................................................

DISCLAIMER

We have taken precautions to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses. We do not accept liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses.

This email and any attached files are confidential and copyright protected. If you are not the addressee, any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. Unless otherwise expressly agreed in writing, nothing stated in this communication shall be legally binding.

#175

From: "Keith Firth" <keith.firth@...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:20 am
Subject: Alternative campaign

keithfirth

Offline

Not sure if you are familiar with the Sniff Petrol campaign - see attached.

Keith Firth

Associate Director

Colin Buchanan

Newminster House

27-29 Baldwin Street

Bristol

BS1 1LT

Tel 0117 917 0822

Fax 0117 925 1609

Mob 07885 827108

............................................................................................................................................................................................

DISCLAIMER

We have taken precautions to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses. We do not accept liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses.

#174

From: "alanjtilly" <alanjtilly@...>
Date: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:58 am
Subject: BBC Think Bike

alanjtilly

Offline

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4690164.stm

While we are on the subject of videos, does this brings back some
memories


Alan

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)

#173

From: "Brian Wood" <bmmwood@...>
Date: Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:51 am
Subject: Re: New TfL Video

bwood_cycles...

Offline

Tony,

I slightly different view from Guy.

Regards,

_________________________________________________

The new advert from the Poms is a bit of worry.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/streets/roadsafety-p2w-video.shtml

This is a classic textbook example of how NOT to do it.

(1) It reinforces old stereotypes

(2) After such a promising start with "How Close", this one plumbs the
depths of pompous officialdom.

(3) It is socially divisive. It delivers a message to non-riders that
motorcycle riders do not look out for themselves and smugly promises
impending doom to all who propose to ride a motorcycle.

(4) It reinforces the view that riders are fundamentally stupid for riding.
This will lead to a re-emergence of an officially sanctioned viewpoint that
"it's only a motorcyclist", so you can safely ignore this underclass.

(5) Worse, it causes riders to switch off to any safety message that the
authority may have been trying to convey to riders. It appears to be "you
are stupid to ride".

(6) It tells car drivers that riders are stupid. No message about HOW to
manage the risks, just an "I told you so, nyar na nee narr nar"

(7) It is not unlike the TV advert with the message "don't use dirty
needles" with grim images, supposedly directed at IV drug users (smackheads,
etc), but with the real message being towards the general public that IV
drug users are an underclass and stupid. That advert is simply meant to
scare people away from IV drug use. Similarly, this advert is to scare
people away from motorcycles, as the subtext is that riders stupidly expose
themselves to needless risk.

(8) If I slammed open the door to the corridor from the office of the person
who signed off on this advert and broke someone's nose, that would be
treated as an act of violence. In this case, the rider is a victim, but is
being blamed for the incident.

(9) No other road user class is subject to such attitudes. This advertises
to the public that riders are responsible for ALL their crashes.

(10) This is a clear illustration of the attitudes of the car-centric,
transport or asset manager. That riders are to blame for the "risk" (in
terms of the administrator). This attitude is embedded in the
class-conscious positioning in this advertisement, pompously speaking to
riders from a comfortable public servant upper middle class view that risk
in their terms is to be avoided and anyone who exposes themselves to risk is
to be relegated to an underclass, being unworthy of respect as an
individual.

(10a) This attitude reduces the motivation for road authorities to deal with
the system-wide issues that affect motorcycle safety. It is actually the
road authority externalising its responsibility by blaming the victim. A
well worn tool, but it has been effective in the past for reducing the need
to spend anything on motorcycle safety. Now this attitude has official
sanction, I suppose the TfL expects riders to be pleased.

(11) I don't like it and would fight hammer and tongs to have it deleted if
a similar advert was to be put to air here in Australia. If British riders
are giving it a bollocking, then I applaud them.

It is simply counterproductive and will alienate the motorcycle community.

Guy

#172

From: Adrian Carey <adrian@...>
Date: Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:23 am
Subject: Re: New TfL Video

adriancarey49

Offline

Hi all,

My bit for what it's worth.

Once again the emphasis is on the motorcyclist compensating for the actions of other road users. We all know that we have to ride as if everyone out there is trying to kill us. BUT, when are we going to see some real campaigns by TfL, Govt in general that are aimed at raising the standards of driving and awareness across the board.

The basic lessons from the video seems to be:

1 It doesn't concern motorists other than Motorcyclists because it appears under the 'Motorcycle Safety' section of TfL - therefore it will not be seen to be relevant to the 'car, taxi, etc drivers - so many of whose actions contribute directly to so may 'motorcycle' accidents. Do TfL do any research into who looks at which sections of their website? This video is as relevant to car/van/etc drivers as it is to motorcyclists.

2 The very tenor of the advert is that it is the motorcyclist's fault that:
a) a driver opened the door without checking - thereby initiating the incident (note there is no mention of the stupidity/culpability of the car driver in the video - a comment on this could easily have been made)
b) the motorcyclist was then foolish enough to fall of his bike and slide into the lampost, thereby:

no doubt damaging the lampost - (TfL could also invest in motorcycle / cycle friendly street furniture.)
breaking his back (it was a he in the video) and losing the use of his legs, thereby

c) costing the NHS lots of money - such a selfish act
d) proving the case that riding a motorcyle is dangerous, thereby
e) providing further evidence to support the imposition of external controls on motorcyclists.

One might have a little quiz on the Website abd/or even TV in a prime time slot - using the interactive capabilities of the digital TV (Press the red button).

First question:

What is the colour of the latest edition of the Highway Code? - I wonder how may drivers would get that right? What does this say about driver knowledge/awareness?

Then maybe some situation specific questions (using the interactive capabilities of the web/modern digital TV) -e.g. (and in relation to the TfL film:
"What should the driver of the car have done"? a) check his/her mirrors before opening the door. b) checked his/her blind spot before opening door; c) opened the door quickly; d) opened the door slowly; e) etc

It could also include a question about the actions the motorcyclist could/ should have taken: a) ride close to parked vehicles; b) always anticipate and give room for someone to open a car door; etc

Other topics that could be addressed in this 'How good a driver do you think you are' type quiz could include:

Tailgating - could have a bit on obeying the '2 second rule' - Question: why is this not included in driving test/training?
Turning without looking
Using Mobile phones (or witnessed last week - holding mobile in one had and engaging in conversation whilst filling in paperwork resting on the steering wheel whilst steering with knees whilst travelling in the outside lane of the M25 clockwise just past the M40 junction)
Cruising in the middle lane (many drivers belive they are correct to do this?)
How to signal on roundabouts
Lane positioning at roundabouts
Signalling at junctions - Why are so many new cars made without indicators? -
How to help traffic flow by your behaviour on the road (e.g. not blocking junctions, letting people in, etc.)
etc

All this could be done in an informative, even fun way. And could be done on prime time and via the BBC's mandate for public service and could provide a bit of real interactive driver education on the TfL's website.

The key demographics of the participants could also be captured to begin to build a picture of driver awareness in different groups.

But it's so much easier to blame P2W riders

Adrian Carey

At 09:52 26/07/2006, you wrote:

Hi Tony

MAG UK will have a press release out on this shortly which will basically say we do not like this video.

Trevor Baird
Director Of Public Affairs (MAG UK)

----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Sharp
To: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 8:43 AM
Subject: [ihie_guidelines] New TfL Video

Have just seen the new TfL video

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/streets/roadsafety-p2w-video.shtml

Operating within the context that they do I think TfL have done a good
job on this one.

Needless to say the MCN forum has the completely opposite view!!
What do others on this site think??

#171

From: "Director of Public Affairs MAG-UK" <trevor.baird@...>
Date: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:31 am
Subject: Re: New TfL Video

trevorhughbaird

Offline

MAG UK certainly exist to promote motorcycling as I would assume all here do.

I would agree wholeheartly with Nichs previous comments on the TfL video.

This video does nothing to promote motorcycling nor offer constructive advice.

The UK ads mentioned from the UK being memorable where probably those that rider groups and industry have been involved in full consultation.

It is clearly intended to gratuitously shock its unintelligent message is that bikes are bad and dangerous. Bearing in mind this ad is being shown on television and in cinemas to the uninitiated masses.

As Nick mentioned the contributory factors in the ad, look at the road in the back ground it clearly shows that the surface is broken up and full of pot holes. Perhaps TfL should have spent its film budget on repairing the road and moved the lamppost the rider crashes into, away from the kerb.

Trevor Baird
Director Of Public Affairs (MAG UK)

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian Wood

To: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 11:25 AM

Subject: Re: [ihie_guidelines] New TfL Video

Tony,

The Positives

It's encouraging that another motorcycle safety message has been produced on a topic that I have not previously seen addressed. As part of the development of our next road safety strategy the Motorcycle Council of NSW surveyed over 1200 riders. We again asked riders what was the most memorable motorcycle related safety message that they had heard. There was a vast improvement in riders answers to this question than we received in our survey 4 years ago. This improvement is mainly due to a much larger number of motorcycle safety messages having been produced. Quite a few riders reported UK ads as the most memorable they had heard even though these are only available downunder on the internet. Another surprising result of the survey was that a much larger percentage of riders had heard the message from another rider. It is very encouraging that riders are talking to other riders about safety. Back to the TfL video, if it helps to get riders talking to other riders about motorcycle safety then I'm all for it.

Part of the success of motorcycle safety campaigns in NSW has been that messages have been produced targeting other road users at the same time messages have been produced targeting riders.

The Negatives

While drivers opening doors is a problem for bicycle drivers it's not for motorcyclists, well not in NSW it isn't. The video would have used a more typical crash scenario.

In summary, the Positives far out weigh the Negatives.

Safe riding,

Brian Wood, Chair Road Safety Committee, MCC of NSW

----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Sharp

To: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 5:43 PM

Subject: [ihie_guidelines] New TfL Video

Have just seen the new TfL video

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/streets/roadsafety-p2w-video.shtml

Operating within the context that they do I think TfL have done a good
job on this one.

Needless to say the MCN forum has the completely opposite view!!
What do others on this site think??

#169

From: "Keith Firth" <keith.firth@...>
Date: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:16 am
Subject: RE: [SPAM [Header Check]] - New TfL Video - Email found in subject

keithfirth

Offline

Tony,

I have shown the film to a range of colleagues and received several comments. It would seem our reactions are mixed. I have experienced a very similar incident, yet I was approaching a set of traffic lights that were on red when a driver who had stopped in the lane next to me opened the car door. I was travelling very slowly but had very little time to react and nowehere to go and ended up slamming my left knee into the edge of the car door. Fortunately, injury was minor (managed to keep the bike upright!) and I managed to hobble home, but I never once considered the incident to be any fault of mine and I'm sure I couldn't have been any more careful or aware of potential danger. Indeed the insurance claim was the quickest I've ever experienced, but I appreciate that this wouldn't matter if the injuries were more serious. Rows of parked cars are obviously a major hazard, either from doors opening or pedestrians stepping out, for example, and this is drummed into you when take any motorcycle test. Yet the main message is in relation to accidents within 3 miles and we are not sure that this point actually comes across from the film.

My criticism would be the clear targeting of the biker as the individual who needs to take care in this instance and almost points the finger at him being wholly responsible for the loss of the use of his legs. Indeed, the film suggests the biker is somewhat irresponsible and shoddy, perhaps even in a hurry to get to work and not thinking clearly. My own experience is that my approach to riding a bike is not necessarily the same as towelling or having breakfast, yet I appreciate the link with the risk of accident and social attitudes. Does the ad suggest that towelling appropriately and finishing breakfast There is no suggestion that the biker is speeding or performing any injudicious manoeuvres and yet it is he who 'sees the door too late'. I appreciate that the message is indeed just that - that we shouldn't take things for granted and always have this 6th sense, but I feel the message is too one-sided. The driver of the car has no face, no reaction, apparently no responsibility. The car driver would need to live with the consequences as well and so why not take the opportunity to give this message as well. The film could have featured both the biker and the driver in the same manner - totally unrelated normal people going to work/ dropping the kids to school, whatever, and then brought together through poor road awareness on both their parts.

Having said this, the ad is in line with the previous films featuring the faceless biker overtaking a car turning right at a junction - in this case the biker is largely at fault but the target is the driver who didn't check his mirrors properly, or the driver at a tee junction failing to see the oncoming bike. The problem is that I'm not sure many people watching will make this connection and in these previous ads there is no reference to the personal hygiene of the drivers. Of course, any campaign to raise awareness is to be applauded but I think that the message will go over people's heads if unfairly or disproportionately targeted at specific groups, with perhaps ambiguous references.

Regards,

Keith

Keith Firth

Associate Director

Colin Buchanan

Newminster House

27-29 Baldwin Street

Bristol

BS1 1LT

Tel 0117 917 0822

Fax 0117 925 1609

Mob 07885 827108

............................................................................................................................................................................................

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Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)

#168

From: "Nich Brown" <n.brown@...>
Date: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:16 am
Subject: RE: New TfL Video

n1chb

Offline

I have to agree with Brian that we need to get riders talking to other riders about safety, but I think the TfL video shows very clearly that it is content more than simply subject that is important.

The TfL video prompts riders and other road users to start talking about motorcycle safety from a deeply flawed premise; apart from the car-driver who opened the door no other road users are shown as having any influence over the crash, whether or not car doors opening are significant in London crash causation the failure to focus on the drivers primary role in preventing this crash rather than the motorcyclists mere presence does not serve to educate but merely infuriate.

Nich Brown
Dir Research & Statistical Services
024 76250801
024 76250840

Have You Got The 'F Factor?
National Motorcycle Week and Ride to Work Day 16th - 23rd July 2006
For more information Click Here.

This email is intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Motor Cycle Industry Association. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited.

n.brown@...

-----Original Message-----
From: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Wood
Sent: 26 July 2006 11:25
To: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ihie_guidelines] New TfL Video

Tony,

The Positives

It's encouraging that another motorcycle safety message has been produced on a topic that I have not previously seen addressed. As part of the development of our next road safety strategy the Motorcycle Council of NSW surveyed over 1200 riders. We again asked riders what was the most memorable motorcycle related safety message that they had heard. There was a vast improvement in riders answers to this question than we received in our survey 4 years ago. This improvement is mainly due to a much larger number of motorcycle safety messages having been produced. Quite a few riders reported UK ads as the most memorable they had heard even though these are only available downunder on the internet. Another surprising result of the survey was that a much larger percentage of riders had heard the message from another rider. It is very encouraging that riders are talking to other riders about safety. Back to the TfL video, if it helps to get riders talking to other riders about motorcycle safety then I'm all for it.

Part of the success of motorcycle safety campaigns in NSW has been that messages have been produced targeting other road users at the same time messages have been produced targeting riders.

The Negatives

While drivers opening doors is a problem for bicycle drivers it's not for motorcyclists, well not in NSW it isn't. The video would have used a more typical crash scenario.

In summary, the Positives far out weigh the Negatives.

Safe riding,

Brian Wood, Chair Road Safety Committee, MCC of NSW

----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Sharp

To: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 5:43 PM

Subject: [ihie_guidelines] New TfL Video

Have just seen the new TfL video

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/streets/roadsafety-p2w-video.shtml

Operating within the context that they do I think TfL have done a good
job on this one.

Needless to say the MCN forum has the completely opposite view!!
What do others on this site think??

#167

From: "Brian Wood" <bmmwood@...>
Date: Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:25 am
Subject: Re: New TfL Video

bwood_cycles...

Offline

Tony,

The Positives

Part of the success of motorcycle safety campaigns in NSW has been that messages have been produced targeting other road users at the same time messages have been produced targeting riders.

The Negatives

While drivers opening doors is a problem for bicycle drivers it's not for motorcyclists, well not in NSW it isn't. The video would have used a more typical crash scenario.

In summary, the Positives far out weigh the Negatives.

Safe riding,

Brian Wood, Chair Road Safety Committee, MCC of NSW

----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Sharp

To: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 5:43 PM

Subject: [ihie_guidelines] New TfL Video

Have just seen the new TfL video

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/streets/roadsafety-p2w-video.shtml

Operating within the context that they do I think TfL have done a good
job on this one.

Needless to say the MCN forum has the completely opposite view!!
What do others on this site think??

#166

From: "Nich Brown" <n.brown@...>
Date: Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:32 am
Subject: RE: New TfL Video

n1chb

Offline

Sorry, I can’t agree that TfL have done anything to be proud of – quite the opposite…

According to their press release, the advert ‘aims to alert people to the fact that most collisions happen within three miles of home, and urges motorcyclists and other road users to drive on the roads they know with as much caution as they would on unfamiliar ones’.

If you wanted a road user group to epitomize the ‘most crashes within 3 miles of home’ issue, the one group that doesn’t fit that profile according to the London stats are motorcyclists. Presumably, the motivation for focusing on motorcycle riders is that they remain disproportionately represented in the crash stats, but that has nothing to do with the theme of the campaign.

Looking at the advert, I can’t see anything that speaks to other road users about how they can avoid accidents close to home. Looking at the TFL website, I can’t find anything similar for other classes of road user.

The advert is called ‘Losing Control’, it looks at everything from the point of view of what the rider is doing and more than implies the motorcyclist lost control and was injured through their own actions "The door you see too late. The lamppost you slam in to". Where is the video aimed at educating car drivers not to fling doors open, pull-out without looking properly, or otherwise avoid killing motorcyclists, bicyclists, grannies, kids or each other. Where is the evidence that TfL are addressing the responsibility of London’s highway managers for the parking and infrastructure responsibilities that are contributory factors in the riders injuries shown in the advert itself.

The last line of the advert seems to suggest that the very act of going to work by bike contributed to the crash – and it was launched at the start of Ride to Work week. Call me cynical, but I have no doubt TfL knew exactly what they were doing and I find their justification frankly rather insulting.

I suppose there is a twisted logic in not upsetting London car drivers - even though they are involved in the majority of fatal crashes (although they generally survive) - but TfL know full-well that London riders will yet again feel that the victim is being asked to accept responsibility for failing to avoid the consequences of other people’s actions.

Nich Brown
Dir Research & Statistical Services
024 76250801
024 76250840

n.brown@...

-----Original Message-----
From: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Sharp
Sent: 26 July 2006 08:43
To: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ihie_guidelines] New TfL Video

#165

From: "Colbron, Stuart L" <stuart.colbron@...>
Date: Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:11 am
Subject: RE: New TfL Video

scolbron

Offline

I saw this on the TV the other night and agree that it is good to remind bikers that streets they ride everyday need to be treated as carefully as any other. However, would it not be better to run another video in parallel aimed at the driver's of cars to look (in mirrors and overshoulder) BEFORE they open doors for both cyclists AND motorcyclists.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl

#164

From: "Director of Public Affairs MAG-UK" <trevor.baird@...>
Date: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:52 am
Subject: Re: New TfL Video

trevorhughbaird

Offline

Hi Tony

MAG UK will have a press release out on this shortly which will basically say we do not like this video.

Trevor Baird
Director Of Public Affairs (MAG UK)

----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Sharp

To: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 8:43 AM

Subject: [ihie_guidelines] New TfL Video

Have just seen the new TfL video

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/streets/roadsafety-p2w-video.shtml

Operating within the context that they do I think TfL have done a good
job on this one.

Needless to say the MCN forum has the completely opposite view!!
What do others on this site think??

#163

From: "Tony Sharp" <tony.sharp@...>
Date: Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:43 am
Subject: New TfL Video

ajmsharp

Offline

Have just seen the new TfL video

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/streets/roadsafety-p2w-video.shtml

Operating within the context that they do I think TfL have done a good
job on this one.

Needless to say the MCN forum has the completely opposite view!!
What do others on this site think??

#161

From: "Colbron, Stuart L" <stuart.colbron@...>
Date: Fri May 26, 2006 12:01 pm
Subject: RE: Manhole covers

scolbron

Offline

Ben,

Area 6 have just installed such a cover on the taper to a layby following a Road Safety Audit report. See attached message for details and contact.

From: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Crossley
Sent: 22 May 2006 09:56
To: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ihie_guidelines] Manhole covers

Can anyone recommend a good method of treating existing manhole covers
to make them less of a hazard to riders? We have recently put a calcined
bauxite (shellgrip) surface on double bends. There are a series of
covers through the bends that soon lose any material stuck on them. To
see photos take a look at:

http://www.lpmcc.net/news/news_a512.htm

Ben Crossley
Accident Investigation and Prevention
Highways, Transportation and Waste Management
Leicestershire County Council
County Hall
Glenfield
Leicester
LE3 8RG

Phone 0116 265 7216

_______________________________________________________________________
Leicestershire County Council - rated a 'four-star' council by the Audit Commission
_______________________________________________________________________

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any reading, printing, storage, disclosure, copying or any other action taken in respect of this e-mail is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by using the reply function and then permanently delete what you have received.

Incoming and outgoing e-mail messages are routinely monitored for compliance with Leicestershire County Council's policy on the use of electronic communications. The contents of e-mails may have to be disclosed to a request under the Data Protection Act 1998 and the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

The views expressed by the author may not necessarily reflect the views or policies of the Leicestershire County Council.

Attachments to e-mail messages may contain viruses that may damage your system. Whilst Leicestershire County Council has taken every reasonable precaution to minimise this risk, we cannot accept any liability for any damage which you sustain as a result of these factors. You are advised to carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.

This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl

Stuart
Details of manhole cover as discussed
David

______________________________________________
From: Edevane, David P
Sent:   10 May 2006 09:23
To:     Rahim, Sahir
Cc:     Mobbs, Cefin
Subject:        A14 VMS Hardstandings - CWI Layby E22, Risby
Importance:     High

(Projman 29802)

Sahir
Please can you issue a 'change in works instruction' for the works that NJM are currently undertaking at layby E22 on the A14 at Risby.

As a consequence of the proposed carriageway widening, an existing surface water chamber will be located within the entry taper of the new layby layout (at scheme chainage 0 - see Drg BW5080/GB/LNMS/83343/009 Rev B). The Stage 2 Road Safety Audit highlighted a problem with motorcyclists entering the layby and, when under heavy braking, the possibility of them losing control if they were to brake on the manhole cover. The audit report has recommended that the chamber be relocated outside of the layby layout - this is not practicable. I have therefore been investigating the use of an 'anti-skid' cover.

Saint-Gobain Pipelines currently have a product on the market that uses an anti-skid bauxite material within the recess of the cover lid - see attached photograph. However, this does not strictly meet BSEN124 as that particular type of surface is not yet recognised within the standard (the standard is due to be reviewed in the next year or so). I've now received confirmation from the HA that they are happy to use this product as a 'trial' in this particular situation - see attached e-mail from Austin Adkins that also gives some background on the certification issue.

Paul Thompson, Saint-Gobain Pipelines Regional Sales Manager, has supplied me with the following product description so that Nuttall John Martin can place an order. Once the order is placed, NJM then need to contact Paul and he will arrange for delivery of the unit to site - see Paul's message below, together with contact details.

Regards
David Edevane
ATKINS Highways & Transportation
Design Team Leader A14/A120
Tel: 01473 835886
Facsimile: 01473 835826
mail to:- david.edevane@...
<file:/P:\GBIPA\Transport Systems\Area6\I Roads Design\Schemes\LNMS\LNMS over �100K\Yr2005 - 2006\83343 A14 Lay-by Improvements Ph 2\02 Correspondence\e-mail\DE_31324 Layby E22 manhole cover reply from HA 280406.msg>

<<Anti Skid Unit.jpg>>
From: Thompson, Paul (Pipelines) [mailto:Paul.Thompson@...]
Sent: 11 April 2006 18:53
To: Edevane, David P
Subject: Anti - Skid Access Cover

David
Further to our recent meeting I can confirm that we a have a unit ready for the project at Risby near Bury St Edmunds
Although we do not have a product code set up for the unit, I can give you a description to forward onto your contractor to help in getting an order placed

Description is
Prototype BC14 Inter-Ax 600x600x150 deep D400 Access Cover & Frame c/w aggregate anti-skid surface finish. The cost as discussed is �90.00

The order can be placed via any of our local stockists, Frazer Bury St Edmunds (01284 703275) or Burdens Cambridge (01954 211443). I will take the cover to site rather than have it delivered into the stockists yard. Once a stockist is chosen could you please ensure someone notifies me so i can discuss the arrangements with them.

I hope this information meets with your approval and if i can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate in contacting me

Regards
Paul
Paul Thompson
Regional Sales Manager - Utilities & Civils
Saint-Gobain Pipelines plc
Mobile 07796 443873
E-mail address paul.thompson@...
More information of Saint-Gobain Pipelines' products and services can be found on our web site http://www.saint-gobain.co.uk

#160

From: "Tony Sharp" <tony.sharp@...>
Date: Mon May 22, 2006 10:03 am
Subject: RE: Manhole covers

ajmsharp

Offline

Ben,

Existing covers no but Saint Gobain (Stainton Metals) have been working on treatment for covers and have just delivered about 100 to Bristol City Council for a major shopping centre re-development.

It shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to supply replacement covers for the bend your talking about.

Let us know how you get on

Tony Sharp

Vice President

IHIE

#159

From: "Director of Public Affairs MAG-UK" <trevor.baird@...>
Date: Mon May 22, 2006 9:28 am
Subject: Re: Manhole covers

trevorhughbaird

Offline

This may help.

Cheers

Trevor Baird
Director Of Public Affairs (MAG UK)

Bristol pioneers revolutionary new kind of manhole cover

Release Date:12-May-2006

Bristol is set to become the first city in Europe to introduce a new kind of manhole cover to help reduce the risk of skidding for motorcyclists and cyclists.

Bristol City Council and the Bristol Alliance have chosen to introduce a new type of manhole cover on the new road system that forms part of the �500 million Broadmead expansion project.

The new type of covers, designed and produced by Saint Gobain Pipelines and Stirling Lloyd, aims to reduce the likelihood of skidding.

Motorcycling groups have been asking us for some time to introduce anti-skid covers. The engineers working on the new Broadmead development have endeavoured to design the road to avoid positioning covers on bends where heavy braking is likely. However with a multitude of utilities on the highway, this is not always possible. This new type of cover should make the road much safer for two wheeled traffic;� said Executive Member for Transport, Cllr Dennis Brown.

A safety audit carried out on the design for the new road system that opened last week, identified the need for skid resistant materials to ensure the safety of motorcyclists and cyclists. The new EN124 standard is due to come into force in 3 years time, requiring manufacturers to test the skid resistance value of manhole covers. Bristol is ahead of other cities in pioneering this new type of manhole cover on its new road system.

The new Broadmead development, scheduled to open in 2008, will also feature new motorcycle parking areas that have been designed in accordance with the Institute of Highway and Incorporated Engineers Guidelines for Motorcycling.

Author: Myra Johnson

Bristol MAG Campaign - The Manhole Cover Campaign

MAG member Richard Stiling who organises the Bristol Bike Show every year, has also been campaigning to get standards changed for the construction of manhole covers. Their slippery surfaces can pose a problem to motorcyclists, pedal cyclists and pedestrians. Richard has been trying for many years to get the standard for their surface to be made more grippy.

At last his work is beginning to bear fruit. In Bristol, among other places, new manhole covers are being tested to see whether they improve matters for road users.

On Saturday 6th May, at Bristol MAG Awareness Day at Fowlers Motorcycle Store, we displayed one of the new anti-skid manhole covers that Bristol City Council is trying out in the city centre redevelopment.

Further details http://bristol.mag-uk.org/campaigns/manhole-covers.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Ben Crossley

To: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 9:55 AM

Subject: [ihie_guidelines] Manhole covers

Can anyone recommend a good method of treating existing manhole covers
to make them less of a hazard to riders? We have recently put a calcined
bauxite (shellgrip) surface on double bends. There are a series of
covers through the bends that soon lose any material stuck on them. To
see photos take a look at:

http://www.lpmcc.net/news/news_a512.htm

Ben Crossley
Accident Investigation and Prevention
Highways, Transportation and Waste Management
Leicestershire County Council
County Hall
Glenfield
Leicester
LE3 8RG

Phone 0116 265 7216

_______________________________________________________________________
Leicestershire County Council - rated a 'four-star' council by the Audit Commission
_______________________________________________________________________

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any reading, printing, storage, disclosure, copying or any other action taken in respect of this e-mail is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by using the reply function and then permanently delete what you have received.

Incoming and outgoing e-mail messages are routinely monitored for compliance with Leicestershire County Council's policy on the use of electronic communications. The contents of e-mails may have to be disclosed to a request under the Data Protection Act 1998 and the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

The views expressed by the author may not necessarily reflect the views or policies of the Leicestershire County Council.

Attachments to e-mail messages may contain viruses that may damage your system. Whilst Leicestershire County Council has taken every reasonable precaution to minimise this risk, we cannot accept any liability for any damage which you sustain as a result of these factors. You are advised to carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.

#158

From: "Ben Crossley" <bcrossley@...>
Date: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 am
Subject: Manhole covers

ben_crossley

Offline

Can anyone recommend a good method of treating existing manhole covers
to make them less of a hazard to riders? We have recently put a calcined
bauxite (shellgrip) surface on double bends. There are a series of
covers through the bends that soon lose any material stuck on them. To
see photos take a look at:

http://www.lpmcc.net/news/news_a512.htm



Ben Crossley
Accident Investigation and Prevention
Highways, Transportation and Waste Management
Leicestershire County Council
County Hall
Glenfield
Leicester
LE3 8RG

Phone 0116 265 7216


_______________________________________________________________________
Leicestershire County Council - rated a  'four-star' council by the Audit
Commission
_______________________________________________________________________


This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not
the intended recipient, any reading, printing, storage, disclosure, copying or
any other action taken in respect of this e-mail is prohibited and may be
unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
immediately by using the reply function and then permanently delete what you
have received.

Incoming and outgoing e-mail messages are routinely monitored for compliance
with Leicestershire County Council's policy on the use of electronic
communications.   The contents of e-mails may have to be disclosed to a request
under the Data Protection Act 1998 and the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

The views expressed by the author may not necessarily reflect the views or
policies of the Leicestershire County Council.

Attachments to e-mail messages may contain viruses that may damage your system.
Whilst Leicestershire County Council has taken every reasonable precaution to
minimise this risk, we cannot accept any liability for any damage which you
sustain as a result of these factors. You are advised to carry out your own
virus checks before opening any attachment.

#157

From: "Richard Pearson" <richardlmpearson@...>
Date: Fri May 19, 2006 3:01 pm
Subject: Re: Rubber Highways

richardlmpea...

Offline

Looking at the pictures on the sites, it looks like it'd be slippy in
the wet and with the tram tracks still in place, could be quite
dangerous for motorcycles.

On the other hand, with the tracks removed and if they sorted out the
wet weather grip, it'd be a bit comfier to fall off on. A bit like
walls in a padded cell!

Richard.

#156

From: "Director of Public Affairs MAG-UK" <trevor.baird@...>
Date: Fri May 19, 2006 11:19 am
Subject: Re: Rubber Highways

trevorhughbaird

Offline

http://www.asphaltrubber.org/RPA_Newsletters/fall2004/pg4.html

Just had a quick search on the internet and these came up

http://www.engineering.ualberta.ca/uofaengineer/article.cfm?article=32050&issue=32037

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/67428/rubber_roads_are_on_track.html

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22749-2166907,00.html this one interesting as it says

Transport for London is interested in the concept and is carrying out skid tests on the road surface.

And this http://www.prw.com/main/newsdetails.asp?id=5541 some tests in the UK in June.

Cheers

Trevor Baird
Director Of Public Affairs (MAG UK)

----- Original Message -----

From: Richard Pearson

To: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 11:58 AM

Subject: [ihie_guidelines] Rubber Highways

I have just read in Surveyor (18/05/06 page 11 that there are trials
into the use of rubber road surfacing. There is a mention of cars
being tested on them, but nothing of motorcycles and also wet weather
conditions. There is more details of this on www.rubberhighways.com.

I have yet to read up further on this, but if any of you know more
about this, I'd be interested to hear it.

Richard.

#155

From: "Richard Pearson" <richardlmpearson@...>
Date: Fri May 19, 2006 10:58 am
Subject: Rubber Highways

richardlmpea...

Offline

I have just read in Surveyor (18/05/06 page 11 that there are trials
into the use of rubber road surfacing. There is a mention of cars
being tested on them, but nothing of motorcycles and also wet weather
conditions. There is more details of this on www.rubberhighways.com.

I have yet to read up further on this, but if any of you know more
about this, I'd be interested to hear it.

Richard.

#153

From: "Tony Sharp" <tony.sharp@...>
Date: Fri May 19, 2006 9:47 am
Subject: What NOT spam!!! DfT compendium of M/C Stats

ajmsharp

Offline

Hi every one,

sorry for the instances of SPAM that the site has suffered recently
but such is the problem with an 'open access' site.

The DfT has just published (18/5/06) a compendium of M/C statistics
It can be found at
http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_transstats/documents/page/dft
_transstats_611681.hcsp

or go to the DfT web site and look it up under 'whats new'

Regards

Tony Sharp
Vice President IHIE (Group Moderator)

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)

#145

From: "Nich Brown" <n.brown@...>
Date: Tue Jan 3, 2006 11:41 am
Subject: RE: Motorbikes '16 times worse than cars for pollution' (An...

n1chb

Offline

I would say first that anyone reading this report should be VERY careful about quoting it, especially in a UK context. The paper suggests that the machines tested pre-date the current Euro2 environmental regulations for motorcycles which became mandatory in 2003/04 and makes no reference to the introduction of Euro3 regulations from this year. Also interesting to note that the paper comes from a non-EU country and that the author’s view that in respect of technical and regulatory advancements ‘emissions from motorcycles have been ignored’ only makes sense when we consider the article is written for a US publication – although the fact is many US states (eg; California) have had very challenging motorcycle emission regs for many years. Let me emphasise, we now have bikes entering the EU market which comply with the third generation of EU emissions regs for motorcycles and there is a fourth set of regulations in the pipeline.

Cllr Alan Mccarthy asks how many two stokes are registered in the UK. To the best of my knowledge this data is not available, but DfT licensing stats allow us to look at proportions based on engine size and year of first registration for the current stock of bikes licensed at the end of 2004, from here it is possible to make some estimates. 2-stroke production has been effectively confined to small bikes for more than a decade whilst the introduction of Euro2 (and preparation for Euro3) regs has meant the product range has moved from 2-stroke to 4-stroke power since the late 1990’s. Based on this data I would say the most pessimistic estimate between 15% - 20% 2-stroke power in the current UK bike fleet and expect this figure will fall below 10% within the next 2-3 years. 2-stroke technology has advanced and it is feasible that we will see new designs that comply with current and future emissions regs, but for the moment I would expect to see investment focus on 4-stroke and alternative power.

Nich Brown

Director of Research & Statistical Services

Motor Cycle Industry Association of Great Britain

Tel 024 76250801

Fax 024 76250840

www.mcia.co.uk Your Primary Source of information on the UK Motorcycle Industry.

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-----Original Message-----
From: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of alanmmccarthy@...
Sent: 30 December 2005 11:21
To: ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ihie_guidelines] Motorbikes '16 times worse than cars for pollution' (An...

Have to Question the vadility of the Guardian report,

Two Stroke emissions are Know to be notoriously higher than four strokes.

As the test appear to have been carried out using 50% two stokes my question has to be :

Out of the 1,060,000 motorcycles in this country the above would only be a fair report if and only if 530,000 i.e. 50% of all motorcycles in the UK were Two Strokes, can anyone tell me how many two stokes are registered in the UK

Cllr Alan Mccarthy

Rochdale MBC

#144

From: trevor.baird@...
Date: Sat Dec 31, 2005 9:48 am
Subject: Re: Motorbikes '16 times worse than cars for pollution'

trevorhughbaird

Offline

Hi All

Working from web mail at home, some of the HTML is hard to read.

So not sure if Acems response has been mentioned.

Its at http://www.acembike.org/html/start.htm with a nice graph.

What they have picked up is that the testing was Euro 3 emmission cars against
Euro 1 emmission bikes, hardly comparable.

Also they would like us to buy nice new shiny bikes...............


Cheers

Trevor.B



rc015b9785@... wrote:
> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> In <a
href="http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/vrpdf/trum/oxford2000vol1_1f.pdf">http://ww\
w.vicroads.vic.gov.au/vrpdf/trum/oxford2000vol1_1f.pdf</a><BR>
> does Marcus mean<BR>
> CARB (2000) OnRoad MVEI Models: MVE17G ...<BR>
> <a
href="http://www.arb.ca.gov/msei/mvei/mvdocs.htm">http://www.arb.ca.gov/msei/mve\
i/mvdocs.htm</a> gives Error Page Not Found - is<BR>
> it available elsewhere1? ditto these:<BR>
> ACEM Pollution Research Group (1998) Motorcycle pollution research
programme<BR>
> on motorcycles (Report) Brussels ACEM 971p)<BR>
> &<BR>
> BTCE (1996) Transport and greenhouse: costs & options for reducing
emissions<BR>
> (Report 4) Canberra AGPS (541p)<BR>
> or<BR>
> other?<BR>
> <BR>
> I agree using a small number of PTWs as a sample for a huge population of<BR>
> new / old / adapted / well-serviced / 'rat' bikes, but is there a way of<BR>
> measuring the actual popultion without relying on maufacturers'
'optimistic'<BR>
> data?<BR>
> <BR>
> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
> From: "Marcus Wigan" <oxsys@...><BR>
> To: <ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com><BR>
> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 9:14 AM<BR>
> Subject: Re: [ihie_guidelines] Digest Number 57<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > >    Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 15:18:30 -0000<BR>
> > >    From: "Ross Corben" <rc015b9785@...><BR>
> > > Subject: Motorbikes '16 times worse than cars for pollution'<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Source - <a
href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5360490-117780,00.html">http://www.\
guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5360490-117780,00.html</a><BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > [is there research based on a bwetter range of PTWs?]<BR>
> <BR>
> > Yes there is. the Californian group that did the measurements for the<BR>
> > MOBILE 6 US standrad emission model dd th esame tests (not the ones<BR>
> > defiend in wht appear to be an arbitraray and noncomparaable manenr<BR>
> > by the Guardian report) and picke dup the raneg of misadjustments and<BR>
> > aftermarket changes as aprt of the work. Teh reference escpaes me for<BR>
> > a moment- but its in my 'Motrocycles as transport' 2000 Oxford<BR>
> > Systematics rpeort for Vicroads and VMAC in australia- if anyone want<BR>
> > to go further I can dig it out<BR>
> ><BR>
> > marcus wigan<BR>
> > Napier university and oxford systematics australia<BR>
> <BR>
> </tt>
>
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#143

From: "Ross Corben" <rc015b9785@...>
Date: Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:57 pm
Subject: Re: Motorbikes '16 times worse than cars for pollution'

rc015b9785

Offline

In http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/vrpdf/trum/oxford2000vol1_1f.pdf
does Marcus mean
CARB (2000) OnRoad MVEI Models: MVE17G ...
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msei/mvei/mvdocs.htm gives Error Page Not Found - is
it available elsewhere1? ditto these:
ACEM Pollution Research Group (1998) Motorcycle pollution research programme
on motorcycles (Report) Brussels ACEM 971p)
&
BTCE (1996) Transport and greenhouse: costs & options for reducing emissions
(Report 4) Canberra AGPS (541p)
or
other?

I agree using a small number of PTWs as a sample for a huge population of
new / old / adapted / well-serviced / 'rat' bikes, but is there a way of
measuring the actual popultion without relying on maufacturers' 'optimistic'
data?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcus Wigan" <oxsys@...>
To: <ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: [ihie_guidelines] Digest Number 57


> >    Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 15:18:30 -0000
> >    From: "Ross Corben" <rc015b9785@...>
> > Subject: Motorbikes '16 times worse than cars for pollution'
> >
> > Source - http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5360490-117780,00.html
> >
> > [is there research based on a bwetter range of PTWs?]

> Yes there is. the Californian group that did the measurements for the
> MOBILE 6 US standrad emission model dd th esame tests (not the ones
> defiend in wht appear to be an arbitraray and noncomparaable manenr
> by the Guardian report) and picke dup the raneg of misadjustments and
> aftermarket changes as aprt of the work. Teh reference escpaes me for
> a moment- but its in my 'Motrocycles as transport' 2000 Oxford
> Systematics rpeort for Vicroads and VMAC in australia- if anyone want
> to go further I can dig it out
>
> marcus wigan
> Napier university and oxford systematics australia

#141

From: "Tony Sharp" <tony.sharp@...>
Date: Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:25 am
Subject: Re: Motorbikes '16 times worse than cars for pollution' (An...

ajmsharp

Offline

I'm Sure that Nich Brown @ MCIA will be able to help us with such
figuers when he returns after the festive break.

Tony sharp
IHIE Vice President



--- In ihie_guidelines@yahoogroups.com, alanmmccarthy@a... wrote:
>
>
> Have to Question the vadility of the Guardian report,
> Two Stroke emissions are Know to be notoriously higher than four
strokes.
> As the test appear to have been carried out using 50% two stokes
my  question
> has to be :
> Out of the 1,060,000 motorcycles in this country the above would
only be a
> fair report if and only if 530,000 i.e. 50% of all motorcycles in
the UK were
> Two Strokes, can anyone tell me how many two stokes are registered
in the  UK
>
> Cllr Alan Mccarthy
> Rochdale MBC
>