Group,

If you have a Fusion Hybrid, be warned that the filter I discovered in our car
is not what the owner's manual listed.

Our '05 Escape Hybrid uses a Motorcraft FL-2017-B filter element.

The Fusion Hybrid lists the 2.5L engine as using the same FL-2017 filter
element.

But much to my surprise, our FFH is equipped with an EFL-910 Motorcraft spin on
full flow can type filter.

Wonder if any 2010 Escape Hybrid owners can confirm if this change has also been
done in the FEH as well.  What does your owner's manual say the replacement
filter is?

And to answer an earlier question about oil/filter change, put the car up on
ramps. Crawl underneath and you'll see 2 removable panels held in with 7mm
socket head + 1-10mm socket head self tapping screws.  You'll find the panels
clearly marked as "OIL FILTER" and "OIL DRAIN".  Not a big deal.  Just the
filter not matching the owner's manual was a rude surprise!

Enjoy!

Daniel

In discussing this event with others, it was pointed out to me that drivers are
trained to NOT reach for the switch in a runaway event. The reason is that it is
far too easy to turn the key too far and lock the steering. I had not thought of
that.
 
And I didn't know that the park brake is now on the floor. Thanks for bringing
me up to date.
 
Interesting discussion. Caused me to consider just what I would do if it
happened to me.
 
Regarding the person who thought that the retired officer was assisting the
driver via cell phone. I want to point out that a person who has just left the
Portsmouth toll booth and is headed North on I-95 has no damned business
chatting on the phone at that point. Farther up into Maine where it gets boring,
ok. But not there!
-Sue

--- On Fri, 11/20/09, Two Dogs <neclark@...> wrote:


From: Two Dogs <neclark@...>
Subject: [hybrid_ford_escape] Re: Owner report of Run-Away Accel due to
`Stretched Throttle Cable'
To: hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, November 20, 2009, 11:08 AM


I didn't see you getting an answer, so, no - the "parking brake" in the `08 and
later models is operated by a pedal to apply the brake, and a T-shaped
hand-lever under the left end of the dash to release it.

One should NEVER `grab the emergency brake' in an emergency, because it
typically operated only the rear brakes; assuming they are effective (because
they often use a separate friction system from the service brakes), you risk
locking the rear wheels, and inducing an end-swapping spin.

This is how stunt-drivers in non-modified cars execute the `boot-legger's turn'
popular in TV and movies.

NC in LB, CA

--- In hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com, "kewldawgpa" <walt@...> wrote:
>
> On an '08, is the emergency brake handle still on the console
> between the seats?
>
> --- In hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com, "charli66062" <charli66062@> wrote:
> >
> > Because talking to th' missus is easier than grabbing that brake handle
located between the seats?
> >
>




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I didn't see you getting an answer, so, no - the "parking brake" in the `08 and
later models is operated by a pedal to apply the brake, and a T-shaped
hand-lever under the left end of the dash to release it.

One should NEVER `grab the emergency brake' in an emergency, because it
typically operated only the rear brakes; assuming they are effective (because
they often use a separate friction system from the service brakes), you risk
locking the rear wheels, and inducing an end-swapping spin.

This is how stunt-drivers in non-modified cars execute the `boot-legger's turn'
popular in TV and movies.

NC in LB, CA

--- In hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com, "kewldawgpa" <walt@...> wrote:
>
> On an '08, is the emergency brake handle still on the console
> between the seats?
>
> --- In hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com, "charli66062" <charli66062@> wrote:
> >
> > Because talking to th' missus is easier than grabbing that brake handle
located between the seats?
> >
>

Wow, `Homer' -

I had to look twice at your post, because it's written exactly as I would have
done it!

...have you got a web-cam running that I'm overlooking..?

(Just `cause you're paranoid doesn't mean that `they' AREN'T out to get you..)

NC in LB, CA


> --- In hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com, "homersaydoe" <homersaydoe@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > The vast majority of "unintented accelration" is driver error - however that
does not mean the Driver is wholly responsable -
> > the manufacters ARE responsable for placing the pedals too close together
causing drivers to hit both in panic situations (The Grand Cherokee is a classic
exsample of this). As they move the wheels back into the passenger compartment
to shorten hoodlines they have reduced the room for feet. Cars have become
increasingly gimmiky as well (such as the start buttons instead of keys) - this
causes confusions in panic situations.
> >
>

I have to agree with you, because this happen to me once.

I got into the car to just move it in the driveway.  Being
a bit lazy, I didn't sit fully into the driver's seat the
way I usually sit.

And yes, I had my foot on the gas pedal, even though I was
110% sure for a second or two that it was on the brake pedal.
Of course, with the unexpectedly lurching forward, one's
instinct is to press even harder on the pedal.  In my case,
that was to press even harder on the GAS pedal.

I caulked it up to something similar to touch typing.  I
can touch type pretty well, but every once-in-a-while, I
am not sitting right, and my fingers are on the wrong
home keys.  In my driving case, I was "touch typing" with
the pedals, and had my foot on the wrong "home pedal".

Of course, later, when I thought about it, it was one
of those DUH! moments.

--- In hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com, "homersaydoe" <homersaydoe@...>
wrote:
>
>
> The vast majority of "unintented accelration" is driver error - however that
does not mean the Driver is wholly responsable -
> the manufacters ARE responsable for placing the pedals too close together
causing drivers to hit both in panic situations (The Grand Cherokee is a classic
exsample of this). As they move the wheels back into the passenger compartment
to shorten hoodlines they have reduced the room for feet. Cars have become
increasingly gimmiky as well (such as the start buttons instead of keys) - this
causes confusions in panic situations.
>

Actually if you read my entire post you would have seen that I addressed the
Toyota case with the CHP officer. I do not think we know that he was fit - that
is an assumption.

The dealer was using the car as a loaner and did not install the right floor
mats (keep the facotry ones clean for resale I assume). The renter was not
instructed to hold down the "start button" to kill the engine.

The vast majority of "unintented accelration" is driver error - however that
does not mean the Driver is wholly responsable -
the manufacters ARE responsable for placing the pedals too close together
causing drivers to hit both in panic situations (The Grand Cherokee is a classic
exsample of this). As they move the wheels back into the passenger compartment
to shorten hoodlines they have reduced the room for feet. Cars have become
increasingly gimmiky as well (such as the start buttons instead of keys) - this
causes confusions in panic situations.

Every motorcycle I have ridden has had a kill switch - I think they should put
them on these gimmiky cars.



--- In hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com, "Two Dogs" <neclark@...> wrote:
>
> We don't know all the facts about this report (it seemed to me that the
retired-cop husband was talking his wife through the event while she was on a
cell-phone).
>
> --- In hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com, "homersaydoe" <homersaydoe@> wrote:
>
> "The Brakes will always overpower the gas - even if the assist is not
functioning."
>
> Actually, this is not always the case; our company investigates motor vehicle
accidents (we avoid the terms `never' or `always'), and we have worked on
several cases - and tested several different types of vehicles - in which
maximum braking by the driver would not bring the vehicle to a stop (although in
the cases that I remember, they could reduce the speed significantly).
>
> And losing the power-assist for power brakes can make the difference between
slowing and loss-of-braking...especially when the driver is an
average-or-smaller size female. But the situation can even exceed the
capabilities of relatively young, robust (and well-trained male).
>
> A recent, tragic crash in SoCal involved a Lexus sedan driven by young, fit
male Highway Patrol officer proves the point (not identical apples, but not
completely different fruit, either). Theirs was a dramatic case of throttle
over-application due to sliding floor-mats - with the brake power booster losing
needed vacuum assist due to full-throttle engine operation.
>
> The final report on this accident isn't out yet, but if a skilled CHP officer
was overwhelmed by events, I'm not going to judge- or condemn any average driver
for their short-comings in a similar situation.
>
> NC in LB, CA
>

You sure your wife wasn't just angry about something?

pdb <pdebruyn86@...> wrote:

>I have to agree with TwoDogs. My wife was sitting in our Grand Cherokee,
>engine idling. I was behind the car doing something. Suddenly I heard
>the engine roar, saw/heard gravel being thrown up by all four wheels,
>saw the GC start back towards me. I leaped off the road to the side, she
>continued about 100 yds into a field when the GC stopped. She had both
>feet mashing the brakes, to no avail. Unfortunately both driver side
>doors were open and a power pole strippd them off the car as she was
>backing up.
>
>I checked NHTSA and found they had 300 incidents of the same
>description. Chrysler was sued and lost only one - and that's because
>that one killed a pedestrian. The other 299 were termed 'driver error'.
>Wife refused to drive the GC after that so we traded in on our MMH.
>
>Bottom line: 4-wheel drive, V8 engine, reverse gear, full throttle and
>brakes ain't worth squat.
>
>Paul
>
>
>
>Two Dogs wrote:
>>
>> We don't know all the facts about this report (it seemed to me that
>> the retired-cop husband was talking his wife through the event while
>> she was on a cell-phone).
>>
>> --- In hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:hybrid_ford_escape%40yahoogroups.com>, "homersaydoe"
>> <homersaydoe@...> wrote:
>>
>> "The Brakes will always overpower the gas - even if the assist is not
>> functioning."
>>
>> Actually, this is not always the case; our company investigates motor
>> vehicle accidents (we avoid the terms `never' or `always'), and we
>> have worked on several cases - and tested several different types of
>> vehicles - in which maximum braking by the driver would not bring the
>> vehicle to a stop (although in the cases that I remember, they could
>> reduce the speed significantly).
>>
>> And losing the power-assist for power brakes can make the difference
>> between slowing and loss-of-braking...especially when the driver is an
>> average-or-smaller size female. But the situation can even exceed the
>> capabilities of relatively young, robust (and well-trained male).
>>
>> A recent, tragic crash in SoCal involved a Lexus sedan driven by
>> young, fit male Highway Patrol officer proves the point (not identical
>> apples, but not completely different fruit, either). Theirs was a
>> dramatic case of throttle over-application due to sliding floor-mats -
>> with the brake power booster losing needed vacuum assist due to
>> full-throttle engine operation.
>>
>> The final report on this accident isn't out yet, but if a skilled CHP
>> officer was overwhelmed by events, I'm not going to judge- or condemn
>> any average driver for their short-comings in a similar situation.
>>
>> NC in LB, CA
>>
>>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
--
Jim Chinnis  Warrenton, Virginia, USA  jchinnis@...

I have to agree with TwoDogs. My wife was sitting in our Grand Cherokee,
engine idling. I was behind the car doing something. Suddenly I heard
the engine roar, saw/heard gravel being thrown up by all four wheels,
saw the GC start back towards me. I leaped off the road to the side, she
continued about 100 yds into a field when the GC stopped. She had both
feet mashing the brakes, to no avail. Unfortunately both driver side
doors were open and a power pole strippd them off the car as she was
backing up.

I checked NHTSA and found they had 300 incidents of the same
description. Chrysler was sued and lost only one - and that's because
that one killed a pedestrian. The other 299 were termed 'driver error'.
Wife refused to drive the GC after that so we traded in on our MMH.

Bottom line: 4-wheel drive, V8 engine, reverse gear, full throttle and
brakes ain't worth squat.

Paul



Two Dogs wrote:
>
> We don't know all the facts about this report (it seemed to me that
> the retired-cop husband was talking his wife through the event while
> she was on a cell-phone).
>
> --- In hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:hybrid_ford_escape%40yahoogroups.com>, "homersaydoe"
> <homersaydoe@...> wrote:
>
> "The Brakes will always overpower the gas - even if the assist is not
> functioning."
>
> Actually, this is not always the case; our company investigates motor
> vehicle accidents (we avoid the terms `never' or `always'), and we
> have worked on several cases - and tested several different types of
> vehicles - in which maximum braking by the driver would not bring the
> vehicle to a stop (although in the cases that I remember, they could
> reduce the speed significantly).
>
> And losing the power-assist for power brakes can make the difference
> between slowing and loss-of-braking...especially when the driver is an
> average-or-smaller size female. But the situation can even exceed the
> capabilities of relatively young, robust (and well-trained male).
>
> A recent, tragic crash in SoCal involved a Lexus sedan driven by
> young, fit male Highway Patrol officer proves the point (not identical
> apples, but not completely different fruit, either). Theirs was a
> dramatic case of throttle over-application due to sliding floor-mats -
> with the brake power booster losing needed vacuum assist due to
> full-throttle engine operation.
>
> The final report on this accident isn't out yet, but if a skilled CHP
> officer was overwhelmed by events, I'm not going to judge- or condemn
> any average driver for their short-comings in a similar situation.
>
> NC in LB, CA
>
>

We don't know all the facts about this report (it seemed to me that the
retired-cop husband was talking his wife through the event while she was on a
cell-phone).

--- In hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com, "homersaydoe" <homersaydoe@...>
wrote:

"The Brakes will always overpower the gas - even if the assist is not
functioning."

Actually, this is not always the case; our company investigates motor vehicle
accidents (we avoid the terms `never' or `always'), and we have worked on
several cases - and tested several different types of vehicles - in which
maximum braking by the driver would not bring the vehicle to a stop (although in
the cases that I remember, they could reduce the speed significantly).

And losing the power-assist for power brakes can make the difference between
slowing and loss-of-braking...especially when the driver is an
average-or-smaller size female. But the situation can even exceed the
capabilities of relatively young, robust (and well-trained male).

A recent, tragic crash in SoCal involved a Lexus sedan driven by young, fit male
Highway Patrol officer proves the point (not identical apples, but not
completely different fruit, either). Theirs was a dramatic case of throttle
over-application due to sliding floor-mats - with the brake power booster losing
needed vacuum assist due to full-throttle engine operation.

The final report on this accident isn't out yet, but if a skilled CHP officer
was overwhelmed by events, I'm not going to judge- or condemn any average driver
for their short-comings in a similar situation.

NC in LB, CA

On an '08, is the emergency brake handle still on the console
between the seats?

--- In hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com, "charli66062" <charli66062@...>
wrote:
>
> Because talking to th' missus is easier than grabbing that brake handle
located between the seats?
>

38MPG - boy I am "Green" with envy.  I have only achieved that in my o5 on short
trips of 20-30miles.

Ronald

--- In hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com, "Overdrive" <gbabyok@...> wrote:
>
> A few notes after 1,500 miles on the 10' FEH:
> * Cold weather performance is reduced, shorter EV and a bit more ICE on, but
nothing like my 07 runaway RPM's.
> * Warm weather trips are running about 38 MPG with speeds 40-50 MPH.
> * Top speed? I'm embarrassed to say I attempted to see if the top speed was
limited to 85 MPH. I took my foot off the gas when I hit 100 and she was still
accelerating. The engine RPM only got to about 3,200 RPM at that speed. So I
still maintain the gear ratio has been changed.
>
> With a 50 minute commute each way to work,I'm still enjoying my new toy
immensely.
>
> Gerry Babyok>

The Brakes will always overpower the gas - even if the assist is not
functioning. At highway speed it may take a really long time (too long to be
safe). It did not say what stopped him from turning off the engine. That is the
point of the key - key off engine off.

Personally I would have put it in nuetral (which can be done at any speed) and
used the brakes. If the engines goes boom so what. The Rev limiter built into
the ECU should protect the engine anyway.

The Toyota case was different in that the operator (also a cop) did not know
that you could shut the engine off by holding down the "start button" for 4 sec.
He appearantly tried to hit the start button, but did not know to hold it down
(the car was a dealer loaner - with the wrong floor mats in it).





--- In hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com, "Two Dogs" <neclark@...> wrote:
>
> I subscribe to a monitoring service which looks for Consumer Complaints files
with the NHTSA on the FEH & MMH twins(*), and just received the following -
copied verbatim from the owner's report to the Auto Safety Hotline (so spelling
& details are the reporting party's). [I'm a bit puzzled how a stretched
(elongated) cable could result in the OVER-application of the throttle - maybe
it has to do with drag - and this does not appear to specifically involve the
hybrid versions - which could have distinct components]. Anyone having a similar
experience SHOULD report it in detail to the NHTSA Auto Safety Hotline:
>
> "VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL
>
> Details: ON 09-24-2009 WHILE TRAVELING ON I-95 TOWARDS MAINE NEAR PORTSMOUTH,
NEW HAMPSHIRE, OUR VEHICLE A 2008 MERCURY MARINER, WITH 15,682 MILES ON THE
ODOMETER, LOST ALL BRAKING CAPABILITY AT 65 MPH. BEING A RETIRED POLICE OFFICER
I WAS ABLE TO TALK MY WIFE, WHO WAS DRIVING, OVER INTO A BREAKDOWN LANE IN AN
EFFORT TO AVOID COLLISION WITH TRACTOR TRAILERS, MOTOR VEHICLES AND FIXED
OBJECTS. ULTIMATELY THE VEHICLE WAS TURNED ONTO AN OFF RAMP AND ONTO A SIDEWALK
AND GRASS AREA TO INCREASE FRICTION TO REDUCE SPEED. THIS WAS SEVERAL MILES IN
THE MAKING AND WHEN THE VEHICLE SLOWED TO UNDER 40 MPH WE PLACED IT IN NEUTRAL
AND WERE ABLE TO STOP THE CAR. WE NOTED THAT THE RPMS WERE IN THE 4,000 TO 5,000
RANGE AS THE THROTTLE APPEARED STUCK. AFTER TOWING TO PORTSMOUTH FORD, IN
PORTSMOUTH, NEW HAMPSHIRE; TECHNICIANS THERE DETERMINED THAT THE PROBLEM WAS A
STRETCHED THROTTLE CONTROL & CABLE ASSEMBLY (PART #7L8Z*9!758*C CABLE
ASS-THROTTLE CONTRO AND PART # 8L*Z*9725*A SHAFT MT79758A-ACCELERATOR CABLE).
TECHICIANS STATED THAT THE STRETCH ACCELERATOR CABLE (WHICH THEY SAID WAS POORLY
DESIGNED) CAUSED THE THROTTLE AND CRUISE CONTROL TO LOCK, WHICH OVER RODE THE
BRAKING SYSTEM. WARRANTY REPAIRS WERE MADE INVOICE 497086 TAG CUSTOMER
#8023451243. WE NARROWLY AVOIDED WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN A CATASTROPHIC ACCIDENT
AND FEEL THIS SHOULD BE BROUGHT TO YOUR ATTENTION AS A DEFECT MAY EXIST IN OTHER
SIMLLAR 2008 MERCURY MARINERS."
>
> NC in LB, CA
>

The hybrid version of Escape and Mariner (and FFH) do not have an accelerator
cable.

Look in the "Files" section at a file titled: "escape_hybrid_accelerator.pdf"

There is an electrical connector, no cable involved.

The ECM (engine control module) takes a voltage from the "accelerator" and
translates this into the throttle position setting.

Drive by wire, in other words.

Daniel

> ...turn the ignition key to 'off'.

Have you ever known a police officer to do that?

>  ...I WAS ABLE TO TALK MY WIFE, WHO WAS DRIVING

Because talking to th' missus is easier than grabbing that brake handle located
between the seats?

Likely the cable did stick. It's good to know the story had a happy ending. And
we get to speculate about how we would do it differently.

It's all good.
-Sue


--- In hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com, "kewldawgpa" <walt@...> wrote:
>
>
> Wow, pretty interesting.
>
> Though, I have to mention that this retired police officer seems
> to have successfully kept his cool, and was able to calmly take
> all sorts of corrective actions, some of the most obvious weren't
> tried.
>
> First, if the Cruise Control is "stuck", TURN IT OFF.
>
> Second, if the engine's throttle is "stuck", TURN IT OFF.  I
> mean, simply move over onto the shoulder of the highway (aka
> the breakdown lane), and turn the ignition key to 'off'.
> Plus, if needed, gently apply the emergency brake (isn't
> this an emergency?).
>
> Both of these are true, even for a non-hybrid.
>
> BTW, from my own past experience, the NHTSA doesn't
> take action unless there was an actual accident, with
> substantial damage or injuries.
>
> --- In hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com, "Two Dogs" <neclark@> wrote:
> >
> > I subscribe to a monitoring service which looks for Consumer Complaints
files with the NHTSA on the FEH & MMH twins(*), and just received the following
- copied verbatim from the owner's report to the Auto Safety Hotline (so
spelling & details are the reporting party's). [I'm a bit puzzled how a
stretched (elongated) cable could result in the OVER-application of the throttle
- maybe it has to do with drag - and this does not appear to specifically
involve the hybrid versions - which could have distinct components]. Anyone
having a similar experience SHOULD report it in detail to the NHTSA Auto Safety
Hotline:
> >
> > "VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL
> >
> > Details: ON 09-24-2009 WHILE TRAVELING ON I-95 TOWARDS MAINE NEAR
PORTSMOUTH, NEW HAMPSHIRE, OUR VEHICLE A 2008 MERCURY MARINER, WITH 15,682 MILES
ON THE ODOMETER, LOST ALL BRAKING CAPABILITY AT 65 MPH. BEING A RETIRED POLICE
OFFICER I WAS ABLE TO TALK MY WIFE, WHO WAS DRIVING, OVER INTO A BREAKDOWN LANE
IN AN EFFORT TO AVOID COLLISION WITH TRACTOR TRAILERS, MOTOR VEHICLES AND FIXED
OBJECTS. ULTIMATELY THE VEHICLE WAS TURNED ONTO AN OFF RAMP AND ONTO A SIDEWALK
AND GRASS AREA TO INCREASE FRICTION TO REDUCE SPEED. THIS WAS SEVERAL MILES IN
THE MAKING AND WHEN THE VEHICLE SLOWED TO UNDER 40 MPH WE PLACED IT IN NEUTRAL
AND WERE ABLE TO STOP THE CAR. WE NOTED THAT THE RPMS WERE IN THE 4,000 TO 5,000
RANGE AS THE THROTTLE APPEARED STUCK. AFTER TOWING TO PORTSMOUTH FORD, IN
PORTSMOUTH, NEW HAMPSHIRE; TECHNICIANS THERE DETERMINED THAT THE PROBLEM WAS A
STRETCHED THROTTLE CONTROL & CABLE ASSEMBLY (PART #7L8Z*9!758*C CABLE
ASS-THROTTLE CONTRO AND PART # 8L*Z*9725*A SHAFT MT79758A-ACCELERATOR CABLE).
TECHICIANS STATED THAT THE STRETCH ACCELERATOR CABLE (WHICH THEY SAID WAS POORLY
DESIGNED) CAUSED THE THROTTLE AND CRUISE CONTROL TO LOCK, WHICH OVER RODE THE
BRAKING SYSTEM. WARRANTY REPAIRS WERE MADE INVOICE 497086 TAG CUSTOMER
#8023451243. WE NARROWLY AVOIDED WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN A CATASTROPHIC ACCIDENT
AND FEEL THIS SHOULD BE BROUGHT TO YOUR ATTENTION AS A DEFECT MAY EXIST IN OTHER
SIMLLAR 2008 MERCURY MARINERS."
> >
> > NC in LB, CA
> >
>

Think they might have jammed something when they sprinted away from the
Portsmouth toll booths heading North?

Stranger things have happened, I suppose..
-Sue

--- In hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com, "Two Dogs" <neclark@...> wrote:
>
> I subscribe to a monitoring service which looks for Consumer Complaints files
with the NHTSA on the FEH & MMH twins(*), and just received the following -
copied verbatim from the owner's report to the Auto Safety Hotline (so spelling
& details are the reporting party's). [I'm a bit puzzled how a stretched
(elongated) cable could result in the OVER-application of the throttle - maybe
it has to do with drag - and this does not appear to specifically involve the
hybrid versions - which could have distinct components]. Anyone having a similar
experience SHOULD report it in detail to the NHTSA Auto Safety Hotline:
>
> "VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL
>
> Details: ON 09-24-2009 WHILE TRAVELING ON I-95 TOWARDS MAINE NEAR PORTSMOUTH,
NEW HAMPSHIRE, OUR VEHICLE A 2008 MERCURY MARINER, WITH 15,682 MILES ON THE
ODOMETER, LOST ALL BRAKING CAPABILITY AT 65 MPH. BEING A RETIRED POLICE OFFICER
I WAS ABLE TO TALK MY WIFE, WHO WAS DRIVING, OVER INTO A BREAKDOWN LANE IN AN
EFFORT TO AVOID COLLISION WITH TRACTOR TRAILERS, MOTOR VEHICLES AND FIXED
OBJECTS. ULTIMATELY THE VEHICLE WAS TURNED ONTO AN OFF RAMP AND ONTO A SIDEWALK
AND GRASS AREA TO INCREASE FRICTION TO REDUCE SPEED. THIS WAS SEVERAL MILES IN
THE MAKING AND WHEN THE VEHICLE SLOWED TO UNDER 40 MPH WE PLACED IT IN NEUTRAL
AND WERE ABLE TO STOP THE CAR. WE NOTED THAT THE RPMS WERE IN THE 4,000 TO 5,000
RANGE AS THE THROTTLE APPEARED STUCK. AFTER TOWING TO PORTSMOUTH FORD, IN
PORTSMOUTH, NEW HAMPSHIRE; TECHNICIANS THERE DETERMINED THAT THE PROBLEM WAS A
STRETCHED THROTTLE CONTROL & CABLE ASSEMBLY (PART #7L8Z*9!758*C CABLE
ASS-THROTTLE CONTRO AND PART # 8L*Z*9725*A SHAFT MT79758A-ACCELERATOR CABLE).
TECHICIANS STATED THAT THE STRETCH ACCELERATOR CABLE (WHICH THEY SAID WAS POORLY
DESIGNED) CAUSED THE THROTTLE AND CRUISE CONTROL TO LOCK, WHICH OVER RODE THE
BRAKING SYSTEM. WARRANTY REPAIRS WERE MADE INVOICE 497086 TAG CUSTOMER
#8023451243. WE NARROWLY AVOIDED WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN A CATASTROPHIC ACCIDENT
AND FEEL THIS SHOULD BE BROUGHT TO YOUR ATTENTION AS A DEFECT MAY EXIST IN OTHER
SIMLLAR 2008 MERCURY MARINERS."
>
> NC in LB, CA
>

Sounds concerning and at the same time a questionable report.  The cruise
control & throttle systems never "override" the brake system.  In fact, tapping
the brakes automatically disengages the cruise control.  If they changed that
behavior on that specific model, it would probably fail federal safety
regulations. Every car that I've used cruise control on has behaved the same way
with the brakes canceling cruise, and that has spanned 4-5 makes and 8-12 models
(rental cars).


--- In hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com, "Two Dogs" <neclark@...> wrote:
>
> I subscribe to a monitoring service which looks for Consumer Complaints files
with the NHTSA on the FEH & MMH twins(*), and just received the following -
copied verbatim from the owner's report to the Auto Safety Hotline (so spelling
& details are the reporting party's). [I'm a bit puzzled how a stretched
(elongated) cable could result in the OVER-application of the throttle - maybe
it has to do with drag - and this does not appear to specifically involve the
hybrid versions - which could have distinct components]. Anyone having a similar
experience SHOULD report it in detail to the NHTSA Auto Safety Hotline:
>
> "VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL
>
> Details: ON 09-24-2009 WHILE TRAVELING ON I-95 TOWARDS MAINE NEAR PORTSMOUTH,
NEW HAMPSHIRE, OUR VEHICLE A 2008 MERCURY MARINER, WITH 15,682 MILES ON THE
ODOMETER, LOST ALL BRAKING CAPABILITY AT 65 MPH. BEING A RETIRED POLICE OFFICER
I WAS ABLE TO TALK MY WIFE, WHO WAS DRIVING, OVER INTO A BREAKDOWN LANE IN AN
EFFORT TO AVOID COLLISION WITH TRACTOR TRAILERS, MOTOR VEHICLES AND FIXED
OBJECTS. ULTIMATELY THE VEHICLE WAS TURNED ONTO AN OFF RAMP AND ONTO A SIDEWALK
AND GRASS AREA TO INCREASE FRICTION TO REDUCE SPEED. THIS WAS SEVERAL MILES IN
THE MAKING AND WHEN THE VEHICLE SLOWED TO UNDER 40 MPH WE PLACED IT IN NEUTRAL
AND WERE ABLE TO STOP THE CAR. WE NOTED THAT THE RPMS WERE IN THE 4,000 TO 5,000
RANGE AS THE THROTTLE APPEARED STUCK. AFTER TOWING TO PORTSMOUTH FORD, IN
PORTSMOUTH, NEW HAMPSHIRE; TECHNICIANS THERE DETERMINED THAT THE PROBLEM WAS A
STRETCHED THROTTLE CONTROL & CABLE ASSEMBLY (PART #7L8Z*9!758*C CABLE
ASS-THROTTLE CONTRO AND PART # 8L*Z*9725*A SHAFT MT79758A-ACCELERATOR CABLE).
TECHICIANS STATED THAT THE STRETCH ACCELERATOR CABLE (WHICH THEY SAID WAS POORLY
DESIGNED) CAUSED THE THROTTLE AND CRUISE CONTROL TO LOCK, WHICH OVER RODE THE
BRAKING SYSTEM. WARRANTY REPAIRS WERE MADE INVOICE 497086 TAG CUSTOMER
#8023451243. WE NARROWLY AVOIDED WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN A CATASTROPHIC ACCIDENT
AND FEEL THIS SHOULD BE BROUGHT TO YOUR ATTENTION AS A DEFECT MAY EXIST IN OTHER
SIMLLAR 2008 MERCURY MARINERS."
>
> NC in LB, CA
>

Gear ratio MAY have changed.  Maybe not.  If so, probably only slightly.

What's the point you wish to get across?  My 2005 can go at least 105 MPH.
Engine RPM can be almost anywhere.

Motor speed - 10,000 RPM at exactly 78 MPH in the 2005-2008 models.
Motor speed is rated for 12,000 RPM continuous, with brief excursions beyond
this OK as long as temperatures are ok.

-John




________________________________
From: Overdrive <gbabyok@...>
To: hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, November 17, 2009 12:00:40 PM
Subject: [hybrid_ford_escape] Update on 2010 FEH

 
A few notes after 1,500 miles on the 10' FEH:
* Cold weather performance is reduced, shorter EV and a bit more ICE on, but
nothing like my 07 runaway RPM's.
* Warm weather trips are running about 38 MPG with speeds 40-50 MPH.
* Top speed? I'm embarrassed to say I attempted to see if the top speed was
limited to 85 MPH. I took my foot off the gas when I hit 100 and she was still
accelerating. The engine RPM only got to about 3,200 RPM at that speed. So I
still maintain the gear ratio has been changed.

With a 50 minute commute each way to work,I'm still enjoying my new toy
immensely.

Gerry Babyok







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A few notes after 1,500 miles on the 10' FEH:
* Cold weather performance is reduced, shorter EV and a bit more ICE on, but
nothing like my 07 runaway RPM's.
* Warm weather trips are running about 38 MPG with speeds 40-50 MPH.
* Top speed? I'm embarrassed to say I attempted to see if the top speed was
limited to 85 MPH. I took my foot off the gas when I hit 100 and she was still
accelerating. The engine RPM only got to about 3,200 RPM at that speed. So I
still maintain the gear ratio has been changed.

With a 50 minute commute each way to work,I'm still enjoying my new toy
immensely.

Gerry Babyok

Actually this incident sounds more the classic brake failures in the Ford
Escape Hybrid series.   What he doesn't say in the abstract is  "what codes
were or were not displayed".    They appear to have done no work or repairs
on the brakes or computer that controls them.   Too bad, I bet he has
another brake failure along the way.   Too bad it was a 2008 product, I
thought the random brake failures were confined to 2005 to 2007 years and
mostly to hybrids.   These brake failures usually can't be diagnosed
because they throw no codes, except for the screen message in the
hybrid.   When one happened with a Ford  hybrid Tech beside me on a test
drive, we thought we finally had it solved but as usual nothing appeared on
the computer scan.

Since changing the main under hood wiring harness, engine computer,
transaxle, and throttle sensing units and having major software upgrades
1000 miles ago we have had no more brake failures but I would not bet money
the random brake failure problem is gone for good yet.   These brake
problems would go away with a shut down and restart so it was assumed they
were computer control or software related rather than leaking brake lines.

I don't get how a stretched cable gives you too many RPMS!!!    I have
spent too much time working on aircraft to buy that one.   A kinked or
frayed cable strand in a wire which refuses to let the cable back in its
sheath after it has been wide open, maybe.   but a stretched cable in
general would mean you would get less RPM than normal.    A stretched
return spring maybe...???    The issue with throttle cables at only 15,682
miles is interesting....

2006 Hybrid Escape Owner





At 06:10 AM 17/11/2009 +0000, you wrote:
>I subscribe to a monitoring service which looks for Consumer Complaints
>files with the NHTSA on the FEH & MMH twins(*), and just received the
>following - copied verbatim from the owner's report to the Auto Safety
>Hotline (so spelling & details are the reporting party's). [I'm a bit
>puzzled how a stretched (elongated) cable could result in the
>OVER-application of the throttle - maybe it has to do with drag - and this
>does not appear to specifically involve the hybrid versions - which could
>have distinct components]. Anyone having a similar experience SHOULD
>report it in detail to the NHTSA Auto Safety Hotline:
>
>"VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL
>
>Details: ON 09-24-2009 WHILE TRAVELING ON I-95 TOWARDS MAINE NEAR
>PORTSMOUTH, NEW HAMPSHIRE, OUR VEHICLE A 2008 MERCURY MARINER, WITH 15,682
>MILES ON THE ODOMETER, LOST ALL BRAKING CAPABILITY AT 65 MPH. BEING A
>RETIRED POLICE OFFICER I WAS ABLE TO TALK MY WIFE, WHO WAS DRIVING, OVER
>INTO A BREAKDOWN LANE IN AN EFFORT TO AVOID COLLISION WITH TRACTOR
>TRAILERS, MOTOR VEHICLES AND FIXED OBJECTS. ULTIMATELY THE VEHICLE WAS
>TURNED ONTO AN OFF RAMP AND ONTO A SIDEWALK AND GRASS AREA TO INCREASE
>FRICTION TO REDUCE SPEED. THIS WAS SEVERAL MILES IN THE MAKING AND WHEN
>THE VEHICLE SLOWED TO UNDER 40 MPH WE PLACED IT IN NEUTRAL AND WERE ABLE
>TO STOP THE CAR. WE NOTED THAT THE RPMS WERE IN THE 4,000 TO 5,000 RANGE
>AS THE THROTTLE APPEARED STUCK. AFTER TOWING TO PORTSMOUTH FORD, IN
>PORTSMOUTH, NEW HAMPSHIRE; TECHNICIANS THERE DETERMINED THAT THE PROBLEM
>WAS A STRETCHED THROTTLE CONTROL & CABLE ASSEMBLY (PART #7L8Z*9!758*C
>CABLE ASS-THROTTLE CONTRO AND PART # 8L*Z*9725*A SHAFT
>MT79758A-ACCELERATOR CABLE). TECHICIANS STATED THAT THE STRETCH
>ACCELERATOR CABLE (WHICH THEY SAID WAS POORLY DESIGNED) CAUSED THE
>THROTTLE AND CRUISE CONTROL TO LOCK, WHICH OVER RODE THE BRAKING SYSTEM.
>WARRANTY REPAIRS WERE MADE INVOICE 497086 TAG CUSTOMER #8023451243. WE
>NARROWLY AVOIDED WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN A CATASTROPHIC ACCIDENT AND FEEL
>THIS SHOULD BE BROUGHT TO YOUR ATTENTION AS A DEFECT MAY EXIST IN OTHER
>SIMLLAR 2008 MERCURY MARINERS."
>
>NC in LB, CA
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Wow, pretty interesting.

Though, I have to mention that this retired police officer seems
to have successfully kept his cool, and was able to calmly take
all sorts of corrective actions, some of the most obvious weren't
tried.

First, if the Cruise Control is "stuck", TURN IT OFF.

Second, if the engine's throttle is "stuck", TURN IT OFF.  I
mean, simply move over onto the shoulder of the highway (aka
the breakdown lane), and turn the ignition key to 'off'.
Plus, if needed, gently apply the emergency brake (isn't
this an emergency?).

Both of these are true, even for a non-hybrid.

BTW, from my own past experience, the NHTSA doesn't
take action unless there was an actual accident, with
substantial damage or injuries.

--- In hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com, "Two Dogs" <neclark@...> wrote:
>
> I subscribe to a monitoring service which looks for Consumer Complaints files
with the NHTSA on the FEH & MMH twins(*), and just received the following -
copied verbatim from the owner's report to the Auto Safety Hotline (so spelling
& details are the reporting party's). [I'm a bit puzzled how a stretched
(elongated) cable could result in the OVER-application of the throttle - maybe
it has to do with drag - and this does not appear to specifically involve the
hybrid versions - which could have distinct components]. Anyone having a similar
experience SHOULD report it in detail to the NHTSA Auto Safety Hotline:
>
> "VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL
>
> Details: ON 09-24-2009 WHILE TRAVELING ON I-95 TOWARDS MAINE NEAR PORTSMOUTH,
NEW HAMPSHIRE, OUR VEHICLE A 2008 MERCURY MARINER, WITH 15,682 MILES ON THE
ODOMETER, LOST ALL BRAKING CAPABILITY AT 65 MPH. BEING A RETIRED POLICE OFFICER
I WAS ABLE TO TALK MY WIFE, WHO WAS DRIVING, OVER INTO A BREAKDOWN LANE IN AN
EFFORT TO AVOID COLLISION WITH TRACTOR TRAILERS, MOTOR VEHICLES AND FIXED
OBJECTS. ULTIMATELY THE VEHICLE WAS TURNED ONTO AN OFF RAMP AND ONTO A SIDEWALK
AND GRASS AREA TO INCREASE FRICTION TO REDUCE SPEED. THIS WAS SEVERAL MILES IN
THE MAKING AND WHEN THE VEHICLE SLOWED TO UNDER 40 MPH WE PLACED IT IN NEUTRAL
AND WERE ABLE TO STOP THE CAR. WE NOTED THAT THE RPMS WERE IN THE 4,000 TO 5,000
RANGE AS THE THROTTLE APPEARED STUCK. AFTER TOWING TO PORTSMOUTH FORD, IN
PORTSMOUTH, NEW HAMPSHIRE; TECHNICIANS THERE DETERMINED THAT THE PROBLEM WAS A
STRETCHED THROTTLE CONTROL & CABLE ASSEMBLY (PART #7L8Z*9!758*C CABLE
ASS-THROTTLE CONTRO AND PART # 8L*Z*9725*A SHAFT MT79758A-ACCELERATOR CABLE).
TECHICIANS STATED THAT THE STRETCH ACCELERATOR CABLE (WHICH THEY SAID WAS POORLY
DESIGNED) CAUSED THE THROTTLE AND CRUISE CONTROL TO LOCK, WHICH OVER RODE THE
BRAKING SYSTEM. WARRANTY REPAIRS WERE MADE INVOICE 497086 TAG CUSTOMER
#8023451243. WE NARROWLY AVOIDED WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN A CATASTROPHIC ACCIDENT
AND FEEL THIS SHOULD BE BROUGHT TO YOUR ATTENTION AS A DEFECT MAY EXIST IN OTHER
SIMLLAR 2008 MERCURY MARINERS."
>
> NC in LB, CA
>

I subscribe to a monitoring service which looks for Consumer Complaints files
with the NHTSA on the FEH & MMH twins(*), and just received the following -
copied verbatim from the owner's report to the Auto Safety Hotline (so spelling
& details are the reporting party's). [I'm a bit puzzled how a stretched
(elongated) cable could result in the OVER-application of the throttle - maybe
it has to do with drag - and this does not appear to specifically involve the
hybrid versions - which could have distinct components]. Anyone having a similar
experience SHOULD report it in detail to the NHTSA Auto Safety Hotline:

"VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL

Details: ON 09-24-2009 WHILE TRAVELING ON I-95 TOWARDS MAINE NEAR PORTSMOUTH,
NEW HAMPSHIRE, OUR VEHICLE A 2008 MERCURY MARINER, WITH 15,682 MILES ON THE
ODOMETER, LOST ALL BRAKING CAPABILITY AT 65 MPH. BEING A RETIRED POLICE OFFICER
I WAS ABLE TO TALK MY WIFE, WHO WAS DRIVING, OVER INTO A BREAKDOWN LANE IN AN
EFFORT TO AVOID COLLISION WITH TRACTOR TRAILERS, MOTOR VEHICLES AND FIXED
OBJECTS. ULTIMATELY THE VEHICLE WAS TURNED ONTO AN OFF RAMP AND ONTO A SIDEWALK
AND GRASS AREA TO INCREASE FRICTION TO REDUCE SPEED. THIS WAS SEVERAL MILES IN
THE MAKING AND WHEN THE VEHICLE SLOWED TO UNDER 40 MPH WE PLACED IT IN NEUTRAL
AND WERE ABLE TO STOP THE CAR. WE NOTED THAT THE RPMS WERE IN THE 4,000 TO 5,000
RANGE AS THE THROTTLE APPEARED STUCK. AFTER TOWING TO PORTSMOUTH FORD, IN
PORTSMOUTH, NEW HAMPSHIRE; TECHNICIANS THERE DETERMINED THAT THE PROBLEM WAS A
STRETCHED THROTTLE CONTROL & CABLE ASSEMBLY (PART #7L8Z*9!758*C CABLE
ASS-THROTTLE CONTRO AND PART # 8L*Z*9725*A SHAFT MT79758A-ACCELERATOR CABLE).
TECHICIANS STATED THAT THE STRETCH ACCELERATOR CABLE (WHICH THEY SAID WAS POORLY
DESIGNED) CAUSED THE THROTTLE AND CRUISE CONTROL TO LOCK, WHICH OVER RODE THE
BRAKING SYSTEM. WARRANTY REPAIRS WERE MADE INVOICE 497086 TAG CUSTOMER
#8023451243. WE NARROWLY AVOIDED WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN A CATASTROPHIC ACCIDENT
AND FEEL THIS SHOULD BE BROUGHT TO YOUR ATTENTION AS A DEFECT MAY EXIST IN OTHER
SIMLLAR 2008 MERCURY MARINERS."

NC in LB, CA

I agree with the other posts on the subject.
My only additional comment would be to make sure the battery pack temps are
staying within normal range.  My experience was that when the battery pack got
to 100F on the TMX gauge on scangauge, that the ICE would never shut off since
it was requiring the A/C to run.  If it is overheating several things can cause
battery to overheat such as air intake mechanism fault near the special rear
window or A/C refrigerant lines to battery pack blocked for some reason or as
was in my case a fairly rare loss of battery pack cooling control unit in the
battery pack. Hopefully, in your case, it was just the battery recalibrating
itself as several have suggested.  That 100K mark is a little scary since the
three main components are off the warranty.  Hope you have another 100,000
trouble free miles.

My garage here in SF suggests, contrary to Owners manual, on the early prius and
FEH models changing the trans fluid often to help the trans and D/C, D/C
electrics to run with better heat efficiency.
I am also changing my coolant for engine and MEC loops on the 5 yrs or 100,000
mile schedule.
Ronald

--- In hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com, "JohnB" <electronhauler@...> wrote:
>
> I apologoze if this is redundant. I tried searching for this topic.
>
> My 2005 FEH typically has a Battery State of Charge (SoC) indicated between
40% and 60% (on a scanguage) This week I noticed that the ICE would not turn off
during 'parking lot crawling' and the SoC kept climbing above 60% to 75%. I
parked the car and turned it off thinking it went brain dead and would be normal
when I returned later in the day. However when I drove later the SoC kept
climbing and got to 93% and the ICE would not shut off.. Then everything
returned to normal again, the SoC dropped, the ICE shutoff as normal, and the
SoC settled down to around 53%.
>
> This appears as if the computer was prompted to run a battery test of  some
sort by examining the capacity, or re-calibrating the SoC. I think this is the
second time I can remember this behavior but I did not have a scanguage the
first time. I just turned over 100,000 miles and so the hybrid components have
just dropped out of warranty.
>
> Can anyone shed light light on this behavior?
>
> Thanks
>

There is a HUGE plastic splash guard that covers the entire engine compartment
which greets you underneath.  I have not attempted removal yet as I haven't
changed the oil yet, but am rapidly approaching that milestone.  Oil filter
element is allegedly the same as FEH.  Beyond that, it should be the same as
FEH.

Rotating tires?  As in just plain old removing tires?  The tire pressure sensor
is on the inside edge of the rims.  No connections, no problems.  I've removed
all 4 tires already in the process of fixing the "pillow ride" problem.  Changed
dampers (shocks) to Koni.  Took care of the excessive body roll problem some
reviewers complained about.  Rear shocks are a pain in the arse to remove, but
with lots of wiggling, the upper bracket comes out.  BEWARE of lots of SHARP
edges on stamped metal parts in the rear suspension.  I had lots of cuts and
abrasions to show off after the ordeal.

Cabin air filter I haven't gone looking for yet.  I can't imagine there is much
difference over previous years.  I thought there was some mention in the owners
manual.  2005 FEH was easy to do.  And I was dismayed to discover Ford had never
installed a filter in the first place!

Have fun with fuel economy.  My father purchased a look alike FFH to ours and on
a recent 1200+ mile trip, he easily topped the 40MPG mark without much effort. 
I haven't quite topped 1K miles, but already achieving well over 37MPG without
much effort.

Enjoy,

Daniel
'05 FEH
'10 FFH

--- In hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com, "jeremy_bennington" <jeremy@...>
wrote:
>
> I just purchased a 2010 FFH to compliment our 2006 FEH.   Has anyone changed
the oil on the FFH themselves?   How does it compare with the FEH?  I assume it
is exactly the same, but have not looked underneath.  Also, has anyone rotated
their tires themselves with the TPMS widget from Ford?  Success/failure?  
Lastly, where is the cabin air filter the supposedly added to the FFH?
>
> Thanks!
>

I just purchased a 2010 FFH to compliment our 2006 FEH.   Has anyone changed the
oil on the FFH themselves?   How does it compare with the FEH?  I assume it is
exactly the same, but have not looked underneath.  Also, has anyone rotated
their tires themselves with the TPMS widget from Ford?  Success/failure?  
Lastly, where is the cabin air filter the supposedly added to the FFH?

Thanks!

John,
There are many things that will cause the ICE to turn on, not the least of
which is when the temperature of the traction battery becomes high from use
or charging, in the '05' at least there is a very complicated cooling system
that involves the AC which is run by the ICE. In addition, the catalytic
converter must be warm enough for emisions, the vacuum must be adequate for
the brake assist, going over 28mph, depresing the throttle for additional
power, and oh yes, when the traction battery drops below 40%SOC. Some of
these issues are resolved by the "10" MY. It is possible you have a
malfunction, but if you did you'd most likely get a warning on your dash
telling you so.The Nimh battery produces a lot of heat both in charging and
discharging and Ford originally concerned about the durability of the
battery pack designed all of this protection to assure that the pack would
last.
Bouty

   _____

From: hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JohnB
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:42 PM
To: hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [hybrid_ford_escape] 2005 FEH Battery going to 90% SoC




I apologoze if this is redundant. I tried searching for this topic.

My 2005 FEH typically has a Battery State of Charge (SoC) indicated between
40% and 60% (on a scanguage) This week I noticed that the ICE would not turn
off during 'parking lot crawling' and the SoC kept climbing above 60% to
75%. I parked the car and turned it off thinking it went brain dead and
would be normal when I returned later in the day. However when I drove later
the SoC kept climbing and got to 93% and the ICE would not shut off.. Then
everything returned to normal again, the SoC dropped, the ICE shutoff as
normal, and the SoC settled down to around 53%.

This appears as if the computer was prompted to run a battery test of some
sort by examining the capacity, or re-calibrating the SoC. I think this is
the second time I can remember this behavior but I did not have a scanguage
the first time. I just turned over 100,000 miles and so the hybrid
components have just dropped out of warranty.

Can anyone shed light light on this behavior?

Thanks






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Perfectly normal battery exersing it sounds to me.

My 05 has done very smilar things since new with no ill effects. If I recall
correctly it is a calibration exersise just like you guessed.

Often it happens when you are driving and so you may not be aware of it. I would
say I noticed it about every 3 months or so when I was really watching. Now I
just drive and trust the computers to run the car....

I drive a lot of different cars, mainly alt fuel and Hybrids and I really do
prefer the feel of the "early" Escapes and Prius (gen 1)' - the GM hybrids
(Silverado and Tahoe) are too smooth, the later prius (09) is fine but too
complicated (that damm key). The later Escapes are too refined. I like the
roughness and mild oddness of my 05. I have even grown to like the wind noise.



--- In hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com, "JohnB" <electronhauler@...> wrote:
>
> I apologoze if this is redundant. I tried searching for this topic.
>
> My 2005 FEH typically has a Battery State of Charge (SoC) indicated between
40% and 60% (on a scanguage) This week I noticed that the ICE would not turn off
during 'parking lot crawling' and the SoC kept climbing above 60% to 75%. I
parked the car and turned it off thinking it went brain dead and would be normal
when I returned later in the day. However when I drove later the SoC kept
climbing and got to 93% and the ICE would not shut off.. Then everything
returned to normal again, the SoC dropped, the ICE shutoff as normal, and the
SoC settled down to around 53%.
>
> This appears as if the computer was prompted to run a battery test of  some
sort by examining the capacity, or re-calibrating the SoC. I think this is the
second time I can remember this behavior but I did not have a scanguage the
first time. I just turned over 100,000 miles and so the hybrid components have
just dropped out of warranty.
>
> Can anyone shed light light on this behavior?
>
> Thanks
>

I apologoze if this is redundant. I tried searching for this topic.

My 2005 FEH typically has a Battery State of Charge (SoC) indicated between 40%
and 60% (on a scanguage) This week I noticed that the ICE would not turn off
during 'parking lot crawling' and the SoC kept climbing above 60% to 75%. I
parked the car and turned it off thinking it went brain dead and would be normal
when I returned later in the day. However when I drove later the SoC kept
climbing and got to 93% and the ICE would not shut off.. Then everything
returned to normal again, the SoC dropped, the ICE shutoff as normal, and the
SoC settled down to around 53%.

This appears as if the computer was prompted to run a battery test of  some sort
by examining the capacity, or re-calibrating the SoC. I think this is the second
time I can remember this behavior but I did not have a scanguage the first time.
I just turned over 100,000 miles and so the hybrid components have just dropped
out of warranty.

Can anyone shed light light on this behavior?

Thanks

Published Ford Diagnostics and Repair manuals print the expected RPM at various
speeds.
The Traction Motor is attached in a fixed ratio to the wheels and moves in a
linear fashion with wheen speed.  6000 and 12,000 RPM is the published number
for 40 MPH and 80 MPH if I recall.  Since the car can exceed 80 MPH, the motor
will spin faster than this at times, but normally, short durations.

The generator is of the same type of motor, just with a lower kW rating.

After reading that, I tested it with the ScanGauge programmed to read rpm, and
it matched the handbook.

       GPS Man,

    can you point to a site that would further explain how the ECVT operates or
is your information coming from scan gauge or other sources? I am not contesting
what you are saying, you may well be correct. However 12,000 RPM is very high
even for a compact motor. It was my understanding (and I could be in complete
error) that the MG would spin forward or backward with respect to the planetary
gear set. This of course is depending on speed and desired ratio of ICE (Sun)
and drive train (Ring gear). At high speed I thought the MG actually spun in
reverse and created KW to be used by the TM (negative split mode).

It's a really an ingenious system of speed control.

    Do you know what the function of MG brake is? I understand the purpose of the
one way clutch on the ICE. Is either one of these a friction based devise that
can wear over time? I know the one way clutch can be accomplished without
appreciable friction using rollers. This technology actually dates back more
than 60 years ago. But the MG brake sounds like friction devise. Thanks for any
feedback.



Gerry Babyok






























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

GPS Man,
    can you point to a site that would further explain how the ECVT operates or
is your information coming from scan gauge or other sources? I am not contesting
what you are saying, you may well be correct. However 12,000 RPM is very high
even for a compact motor. It was my understanding (and I could be in complete
error) that the MG would spin forward or backward with respect to the planetary
gear set. This of course is depending on speed and desired ratio of ICE (Sun)
and drive train (Ring gear). At high speed I thought the MG actually spun in
reverse and created KW to be used by the TM (negative split mode).
It's a really an ingenious system of speed control.
    Do you know what the function of MG brake is? I understand the purpose of the
one way clutch on the ICE. Is either one of these a friction based devise that
can wear over time? I know the one way clutch can be accomplished without
appreciable friction using rollers. This technology actually dates back more
than 60 years ago. But the MG brake sounds like friction devise. Thanks for any
feedback.

Gerry Babyok

Could the ratio have changed?  I suppose so.
 
HOWEVER,  Motor / generator speed is/was not of major concern.
This was assumed ( in error ) to be the reason for the EV speed limit when these
cars first came out, later, to be proven otherwise.
 
The generator motors spin faster when you drive 75 MPH+ with engine on, than
they do in EV mode at 40, or 44 MPH in the new ones.
 
The "speed limit" for the 2005-2008 motor/generator is 12,000 RPM with brief
excursions beyond this tolerated.  The generator is spinning ~6,000 RPM at 40
MPH in EV mode.

--- On Tue, 11/3/09, Overdrive <gbabyok@...> wrote:


From: Overdrive <gbabyok@...>
Subject: [hybrid_ford_escape] 2010 Gear ratio
To: hybrid_ford_escape@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 12:38 PM


 



I think I have figured out how Ford was able to increase the top EV speed. It
appears that the gear ratio between the Motor/Generator and the drive line has
been changed to reduce motor speed verses vehicle speed with the ICE stopped.
I stumbled onto this when experimenting with low speed EV acceleration, the 10'
has noticeably less torque at low speed than the 07'.
This would also explain the much stronger EV performance between 30-40 MPH
(upper end). It also explains why the programming favors ICE acceleration from a
stop.
Once the vehicle is moving the reduced torque is less noticeable.

Gerry Babyok



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]