Even if GM's future is in doubt, news of an Ampera Volt sibling is still more chance for survival of a plug-in in the future, perhaps in today's company or one of it's post chapter 11 takeover follow-on. 2012 end of recession? Well, if the plug comes in, that's already oil out of the game and an innovation effect jolting the market again.
I am sick of waiting..Opel in 2011!!!!!!!!!! ergggggggggggg
--- On Wed, 3/4/09, idolakuvia <idolakuvia@...> wrote:
From: idolakuvia <idolakuvia@...> Subject: [gridable-hybrids] 2009 Geneva Auto Show: Opel Ampera To: gridable-hybrids@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 4:52 AM
GENEVA — A companion to the Chevrolet Volt, the battery-powered Opel Ampera, its will be the first battery-powered vehicle in Europe "suitable for everyday driving." Read more at http://autoblitz. blogspot. com/
Ethanol producers asked the Environmental Protection Agency
on Friday to boost the amount of ethanol that can be blended with
gasoline, but automakers argued the increase could damage car engines
and fuel lines.
USA: Mainstream media catches green car bug
USA/Italy: Chrysler and Fiat Deal May Result in More Electric Cars in U.S.,
Increased Demand For Batteries
Mitsubishi To Increase ImiEV Production Again
USA: Phoenix Motorcars Sputters Into Chapter 11
USA: Michigan Senate approves 4th battery tax credit
USA/Japan: Progress Energy-Nissan deal could bring electric cars to Raleigh
market next year
USA: DOE to establish two Energy Frontier Research Centers at Argonne
Review: Nissan EV-02 Prototype Electric Vehicle
USA: Chrysler files for bankruptcy
UK: First Retro-fit Plug-In Hybrid system will help the unconverted
Search for achives and more....
Please visit and search this new EV site regularly at http://www.4evriders.org
for the latest news and archive on EV and Plug-in Hybrids.
Or you may want to subscribe to this news feed at
http://www.4evriders.org/feed/
At the beginning of 2008 Pininfarina and Bolloré set up a 50-50 joint venture
with the goal of designing, developing, manufacturing and distributing an
electric car with revolutionary technical features and formal qualities. The
company considers the BLUECAR, to be not a mere concept car but a forerunner of
the vehicle which will go into production in Italy at Pininfarina starting from
2010. Production on a commercial scale will take place between 2011 and 2017,
with the forecasted output by 2015 being about 60,000 units.
http://www.greencarmagazine.net/2009/07/italian-ev-uses-ultracapacitor-technolog\
y-to-assist-energy-storage-and-retrievalbluecar/
This is once again the same decades old mistake that ruined all electric cars from the start. Each time a potential EV vehicle manufacturer turns into the extremism of going full electric, it comes out to a car that is either unaffordable, range limited or both. There are good reasons for this.
If a pure EV car want to have a decent range alike the one of a standard petrol car, it needs to have 300 miles of autonomy which translate, at about 0,2 KWh/mile, to a battery of 60 KWh. Of course the pure EV car is simpler to make and thus somewhat cheaper, but this is completely offset by the huge 60 KWh battery cost. So they end up proposing it at an unaffordable price to the happy few.
The next step is usually to take the reduction path, which means reducing the size of the vehicle, its power and of course its range. This comes to a smaller car with about 100 miles of autonomy. At that moment they say, well we now only need a 20 KWh battery and the range is good for 80 % of the trips. Problem is that people use their car for every trip they make and thus they need a 100 % trips solution.
In the end pure EV aren't sold because not that many people can afford two cars and because now and then they often want to make a longer trip like for the vacation.
The way out of this, is either to have a super cheap 60 KWh battery, or to reduce the range one step further at 50 miles and to add an on board range extender in the form of whatever APU, standard engine based or other. Thus a plug-in hybrid. Thus a plug-in Toyota Prius or a plug-in GM Volt, or perhaps, if they think about it, a plug-in APU equipped Nissan Leaf.
AKRON, OHIO, August 3, 2009 – The National Aeronautics and Space Administration
(NASA) and The Goodyear Tire & Rubber Company have developed an airless tire to
transport large, long-range vehicles across the surface of the moon.
The new "Spring Tire" with 800 load bearing springs is designed to carry much
heavier vehicles over much greater distances than the wire mesh tire previously
used on the Apollo Lunar Roving Vehicle (LRV).
The new tire will allow for broader exploration and the eventual development and
maintenance of a lunar outpost.
http://www.greencarmagazine.net/2009/08/goodyear-and-nasa-develop-energy-efficie\
nt-spring-tire-for-moon-possibly-earth/
follow us on Twitter.com/GreenCarMag
Or push the evolution of the infrastructure to where it supports
shorter range vehicles. That's the long term solution anyway.
The moment BEV's become a competitive solution for daily commuting for
the majority of the urban population is the key market tipping point.
I still firmly believe that.
Once that happens, the infrastructure will begin to follow the BEV
market and start its evolution away from station-on-every-corner
support for ICE-only cars, which starts a synergistic feedback loop
and a fairly rapid evolution of both the vehicle market and charging/
fueling infrastructure. Get enough people driving them on a daily
basis, and in urban areas at least, this process will take over and
drive the phase change.
Most of the major automakers know this, which is why US market NEV's
are deliberately speed and range limited to make them impossible to
use as commuter vehicles -- many of them in their un-governed
configuration would actually be close to practical for urban-range
commuting. The moment the market reaches that benchmark, the bulk of
automotive R&D for new models will shift to PHEV and/or BEV models,
the charging infrastructure will begin to evolve into a more mature
state, and huge economies of scale will start to kick in.
Ultimately, the market wants to go that way. The only things keeping
it from happening are suboptimal Nash equilibria in the automotive
manufacturing sector (IMHO the primary factor), and collusion between
the major oil producers who are painfully aware they're holding back
the tide in terms of losing their market dominance in the land
transportation economy, both in the immediate sense of losing their
profitable consumer-gasoline business and in the longer term sense of
BEV's decoupling personal transportation energy requirements from
petroleum and drawing on a much broader base of energy resources.
It's clear to me that if prices of commuter-capable BEV's and
equivalent compact ICE-based cars were competitive with each other,
most people would prefer BEV's for reliability and convenience
reasons. All that needs to happen for that phase change to happen is
to reach the break-even point where the forces driving the change are
stronger than the ones holding it back. And we're close.
On Aug 6, 2009, at 7:47 AM, priusmaniac wrote:
> Nissan pure EV mistake:
>
>
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200908020142DOWJONESDJONLINE\
000003_FORTUNE5.htm
>
> This is once again the same decades old mistake that ruined all
> electric cars from the start. Each time a potential EV vehicle
> manufacturer turns into the extremism of going full electric, it
> comes out to a car that is either unaffordable, range limited or
> both. There are good reasons for this.
>
> If a pure EV car want to have a decent range alike the one of a
> standard petrol car, it needs to have 300 miles of autonomy which
> translate, at about 0,2 KWh/mile, to a battery of 60 KWh. Of course
> the pure EV car is simpler to make and thus somewhat cheaper, but
> this is completely offset by the huge 60 KWh battery cost. So they
> end up proposing it at an unaffordable price to the happy few.
>
> The next step is usually to take the reduction path, which means
> reducing the size of the vehicle, its power and of course its range.
> This comes to a smaller car with about 100 miles of autonomy. At
> that moment they say, well we now only need a 20 KWh battery and the
> range is good for 80 % of the trips. Problem is that people use
> their car for every trip they make and thus they need a 100 % trips
> solution.
>
> In the end pure EV aren't sold because not that many people can
> afford two cars and because now and then they often want to make a
> longer trip like for the vacation.
>
> The way out of this, is either to have a super cheap 60 KWh battery,
> or to reduce the range one step further at 50 miles and to add an on
> board range extender in the form of whatever APU, standard engine
> based or other. Thus a plug-in hybrid. Thus a plug-in Toyota Prius
> or a plug-in GM Volt, or perhaps, if they think about it, a plug-in
> APU equipped Nissan Leaf.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
"If we go two lines without using the phrase 'unimaginably large
military arsenal' we're out of our minds." -- Toby Ziegler
Never heard of a 2 car family? This is the perfect second car. I've been waiting for this since 1978.
William Dryden
--- On Thu, 8/6/09, priusmaniac <priusmaniac@...> wrote:
From: priusmaniac <priusmaniac@...> Subject: [gridable-hybrids] Nissan pure EV, sitting duk for plug-in hybrids! To: gridable-hybrids@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 7:47 AM
This is once again the same decades old mistake that ruined all electric cars from the start. Each time a potential EV vehicle manufacturer turns into the extremism of going full electric, it comes out to a car that is either unaffordable, range limited or both. There are good reasons for this.
If a pure EV car want to have a decent range alike the one of a standard petrol car, it needs to have 300 miles of autonomy which translate, at about 0,2 KWh/mile, to a battery of 60 KWh. Of course the pure EV car is simpler to make and thus somewhat cheaper, but this is completely offset by the huge 60 KWh battery cost. So they end up proposing it at an unaffordable price to the happy few.
The next step is usually to take the reduction path, which means reducing the size of the vehicle, its power and of course its range. This comes to a smaller car with about 100 miles of autonomy. At that moment they say, well we now only need a 20 KWh battery and the range is good for 80 % of the trips. Problem is that people use their car for every trip they make and thus they need a 100 % trips solution.
In the end pure EV aren't sold because not that many people can afford two cars and because now and then they often want to make a longer trip like for the vacation.
The way out of this, is either to have a super cheap 60 KWh battery, or to reduce the range one step further at 50 miles and to add an on board range extender in the form of whatever APU, standard engine based or other. Thus a plug-in hybrid. Thus a plug-in Toyota Prius or a plug-in GM Volt, or perhaps, if they think about it, a plug-in APU equipped Nissan Leaf.
I wonder if this is really true? Why do some people think a car has to fill all
needs and serve all purposes?
I think most families own several cars. My family has three. One of them is a
2 seat Miata.
For longer trips we take the Crown Vic "road cruiser"
Went I bought the Miata, friends and family said it was a mistake because it
only had two seats. This has never been a problem.
I would like to have an all electric car, and it doesn't need to be much more
powerful or long range than a golf cart. If it could get to 40 mph and have a
range of 20 miles it would meet my needs. I'd use it as a 4th car and park the
gas powered one for short trips.
I need just a little more power and range than the currently available
Neighberhood Electric Vehicles.
Randy Hoops
Springfield, MO
--- In gridable-hybrids@yahoogroups.com, "priusmaniac" <priusmaniac@...> wrote:
>
> In the end pure EV aren't sold because not that many people can
> afford two cars and because now and then they often want to make a
> longer trip like for the vacation.
>
I don't think that your opinion is universally accepted. I think that probably 60 to 90% of all two car+ households could have one of them being a four passenger 100 mile fully freeway capable pure EV.
A brief history...
In October of 1998 we were approved to be able to lease an EV. In January of 1999 (4 months after we signed up) my wife and I began a 3 year lease on a 100 mile capable Honda EV Plus. When we signed up, we thought it would be our second car. Within the first week, we realized that 100 miles is much more than we ever did on not only an average day, but most days. Even living in Los Angeles. Outside of one, one week road trip per year (could have rented a car) we only used my gas car extremely rarely (and the battery would always die in the gas car-so I had to keep it on a trickle charger to keep it from killing the battery. The only reason that we kept the gas car is we could not get another EV as the leasing program ended just a couple of months after we got our car and we did not want to purchase another gas car when what we had was fine...)
Although there is often public charging available, we prefer not using daytime power unless necessary-even if it is free since the cost to operate the EV is at maximum around $0.015 cents per mile.
Fast forward a few years and we were able to extend the lease on the car for an extra year, when for not sure what reason-Toyota began selling a limited number of Rav4EV's. We ordered ours-waited 4 months and in the fall of 2002 we drove off the lot in our own Rav4EV. For about 16 months we drove both cars until Honda would not extend the lease under any circumstances. The car had nearly 59K miles on it and it was in near brand new condition. During the time we had both EV's, we only used a gas vehicle 4 days while in town.
Fast forward 10+ years now, and we have now driven over 100K miles of pure EV driving. We still drive our Rav4EV everyday and it is our primary car for my wife during the week, but we take it as a family nearly everywhere on the weekends. I am stuck with the Prius, an excellent car-that I intend to sell as soon as there is a PHEV or possibly another BEV that we can purchase.
I do think from practical experience that at least one car in most households could/should be a pure freeway capable pure EV and the other should be a PHEV 40. (Plug in Hybrid with a 40 mile EV only range).
If you want to see if having just one 4 passenger, 100 mile capable pure EV would be in your household, just reset the trip odometer in each car each day and see how many times per year that you drive more than 100 miles. Then also factor in how often do BOTH cars drive over 100 miles in a day, and then consider how many times do you ever drive over 100 miles in a day without knowing that you were going to drive over 100 miles in a day.
My 2 cents.
Best regards,
Larry
On Aug 6, 2009, at 7:52 AM, Bruce Bostwick wrote:
In the end pure EV aren't sold because not that many people can > afford two cars and because now and then they often want to make a > longer trip like for the vacation.
I don't think that your opinion is universally accepted. I think that probably 60 to 90% of all two car+ households could have one of them being a four passenger 100 mile fully freeway capable pure EV.
A brief history...
In October of 1998 we were approved to be able to lease an EV. In January of 1999 (4 months after we signed up) my wife and I began a 3 year lease on a 100 mile capable Honda EV Plus. When we signed up, we thought it would be our second car. Within the first week, we realized that 100 miles is much more than we ever did on not only an average day, but most days. Even living in Los Angeles. Outside of one, one week road trip per year (could have rented a car) we only used my gas car extremely rarely (and the battery would always die in the gas car-so I had to keep it on a trickle charger to keep it from killing the battery. The only reason that we kept the gas car is we could not get another EV as the leasing program ended just a couple of months after we got our car and we did not want to purchase another gas car when what we had was fine...)
Although there is often public charging available, we prefer not using daytime power unless necessary-even if it is free since the cost to operate the EV is at maximum around $0.015 cents per mile.
Fast forward a few years and we were able to extend the lease on the car for an extra year, when for not sure what reason-Toyota began selling a limited number of Rav4EV's. We ordered ours-waited 4 months and in the fall of 2002 we drove off the lot in our own Rav4EV. For about 16 months we drove both cars until Honda would not extend the lease under any circumstances. The car had nearly 59K miles on it and it was in near brand new condition. During the time we had both EV's, we only used a gas vehicle 4 days while in town.
Fast forward 10+ years now, and we have now driven over 100K miles of pure EV driving. We still drive our Rav4EV everyday and it is our primary car for my wife during the week, but we take it as a family nearly everywhere on the weekends. I am stuck with the Prius, an excellent car-that I intend to sell as soon as there is a PHEV or possibly another BEV that we can purchase.
I do think from practical experience that at least one car in most households could/should be a pure freeway capable pure EV and the other should be a PHEV 40. (Plug in Hybrid with a 40 mile EV only range).
If you want to see if having just one 4 passenger, 100 mile capable pure EV would be in your household, just reset the trip odometer in each car each day and see how many times per year that you drive more than 100 miles. Then also factor in how often do BOTH cars drive over 100 miles in a day, and then consider how many times do you ever drive over 100 miles in a day without knowing that you were going to drive over 100 miles in a day.
My 2 cents.
Best regards,
Larry
On Aug 6, 2009, at 7:52 AM, Bruce Bostwick wrote:
In the end pure EV aren't sold because not that many people can > afford two cars and because now and then they often want to make a > longer trip like for the vacation.
Randy - I'm in the same boat. I drive a 12 year old VW Cabrio. Extended
family and friends told me I'd regret it and want a larger car (a "real
car") sooner rather than later b/c the Cabrio is so small. Why I asked.
We have driven the Cabrio on long distance vacations (albeit before the
second child came along). We drive the car 100 miles this way and that
from to time and the car is plenty big for 100 miles+ with all four of
us. Further when there is only two of us.
The limiting factor is luggage and the family dog that often goes to
Grandma's house. So we take the "big" vehicle - a 10 year old Honda
CR-V. Recently we admitted after a week long vacation that we had out
grown the CR-V. Plenty of passenger space but not enough for luggage,
dog and the bikes we often take with us. The extended family said "we
knew this would happen". Buy a bigger SUV or minivan! I said - no, we
only need the extra space some of the time so we are selling our
utility trailer (open, basic, rag-tag looking trailer) and bought a
Brenderup 1205S with a locking top. Why drive something thirsty when I
only need the hauling capability occasionally?
The same goes for automobiles. Most everyone I know here has a primary
vehicle. It's the better one or the larger one or the favorite one. It
goes on the vacations. In most cases the second vehicle can be anything
b/c it seldom leaves the county unless the one spouse drives a minivan
and the other a muscle car or pickup. Alot of the men I know though
won't stoop so low as to be seen in a minivan (or Cabrio or other
vehicle deemed too girly) if they are alone or out with the guys.
Perhaps these are the folks who think they need their second vehicle to
be a cross-country vehicle capable of massive towing and hauling many
passengers with a manly style and exhaust note... Dunno.
Yes I agree that the petroleum industry and the auto industry wants to
keep things just the way they are. They don't want any of the EVs or
plug-in hybrids to reach the market because once they do there will be
no turning back. People will like the silence and the lack of exhaust.
They'll like the lack of engine maintenance and all the ICE parts that
won't be there to wear out. The technologies will evolve as well just
like computers, cellphones and so many other things so that 15 years
later we'll wonder why we put up with gasoline engines for so long.
It's just like carburetors. Can any of us imagine "fighting" with a
cranky carb on cold mornings or during wet weather? Or the massive
amount of exhaust those cars sometimes put out when they were cold or
something was amiss in the carb? Yes, the road to fuel injection is a
one way street.
We're aiming at two very efficient vehicles for daily drivers. If we
want more interior space we'll take our VW camper van which gets worse
mileage but gets driven very little so costs us very little per year.
Chris in TN
Randy Hoops wrote:
Went I bought the Miata, friends and family said it was a mistake
because it only had two seats. This has never been a problem.
I would like to have an all electric car, and it doesn't need to be
much more powerful or long range than a golf cart. If it could get to
40 mph and have a range of 20 miles it would meet my needs. I'd use it
as a 4th car and park the gas powered one for short trips.
I need just a little more power and range than the currently available
Neighberhood Electric Vehicles.
On Aug 6, 2009, at 10:01 AM, "smithgordon46" <smithgordon46@...>
wrote:
> AKRON, OHIO, August 3, 2009 – The National Aeronautics and Space Adm
> inistration (NASA) and The Goodyear Tire & Rubber Company have devel
> oped an airless tire to transport large, long-range vehicles across
> the surface of the moon.
I guess that's an important advancement in hybrid cars - on the moon.
Hi Larry,
As a second car, a pure EV can be convenient, for sure, but how much people can
afford two cars these days, when so many cannot even afford one. How much people
can afford to buy two cars, and pay the taxes, the parking, the insurances, the
loans interest, the tolls and so on. Realistically, much more families are only
able to buy one car and in that case, they must be able to count on it, whatever
the distance they have to drive. Don't forget that many people are confronted
with much more pressing needs like a house or simply daily living costs on food,
water and clothing. If a family can afford two cars, that's fine, but it is not
the case of many others who have to chose between a pure EV and a Plug-in
Hybrid. Perhaps even between a Plug-in hybrid and a standard gas car.
Now perhaps some families will chose to have only a pure EV and that's fine too,
but most people tend prefer to keep the advantage of range and independence of a
single source of energy supply, be it dwindling foreign oil, limited volatile
biofuels or blackout prone grid electricity.
Sincerely yours,
Priusmaniac
--- In gridable-hybrids@yahoogroups.com, Larry Paul <larry.paul@...> wrote:
>
> to "PriusManiac",
>
> I don't think that your opinion is universally accepted. I think
> that probably 60 to 90% of all two car+ households could have one of
> them being a four passenger 100 mile fully freeway capable pure EV.
>
> A brief history...
>
> In October of 1998 we were approved to be able to lease an EV. In
> January of 1999 (4 months after we signed up) my wife and I began a 3
> year lease on a 100 mile capable Honda EV Plus. When we signed up, we
> thought it would be our second car. Within the first week, we
> realized that 100 miles is much more than we ever did on not only an
> average day, but most days. Even living in Los Angeles. Outside of
> one, one week road trip per year (could have rented a car) we only
> used my gas car extremely rarely (and the battery would always die in
> the gas car-so I had to keep it on a trickle charger to keep it from
> killing the battery. The only reason that we kept the gas car is we
> could not get another EV as the leasing program ended just a couple of
> months after we got our car and we did not want to purchase another
> gas car when what we had was fine...)
>
> Although there is often public charging available, we prefer not using
> daytime power unless necessary-even if it is free since the cost to
> operate the EV is at maximum around $0.015 cents per mile.
>
> Fast forward a few years and we were able to extend the lease on the
> car for an extra year, when for not sure what reason-Toyota began
> selling a limited number of Rav4EV's. We ordered ours-waited 4 months
> and in the fall of 2002 we drove off the lot in our own Rav4EV. For
> about 16 months we drove both cars until Honda would not extend the
> lease under any circumstances. The car had nearly 59K miles on it and
> it was in near brand new condition. During the time we had both EV's,
> we only used a gas vehicle 4 days while in town.
>
> Fast forward 10+ years now, and we have now driven over 100K miles of
> pure EV driving. We still drive our Rav4EV everyday and it is our
> primary car for my wife during the week, but we take it as a family
> nearly everywhere on the weekends. I am stuck with the Prius, an
> excellent car-that I intend to sell as soon as there is a PHEV or
> possibly another BEV that we can purchase.
>
> I do think from practical experience that at least one car in most
> households could/should be a pure freeway capable pure EV and the
> other should be a PHEV 40. (Plug in Hybrid with a 40 mile EV only
> range).
>
> If you want to see if having just one 4 passenger, 100 mile capable
> pure EV would be in your household, just reset the trip odometer in
> each car each day and see how many times per year that you drive more
> than 100 miles. Then also factor in how often do BOTH cars drive over
> 100 miles in a day, and then consider how many times do you ever drive
> over 100 miles in a day without knowing that you were going to drive
> over 100 miles in a day.
>
> My 2 cents.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 6, 2009, at 7:52 AM, Bruce Bostwick wrote:
>
> > In the end pure EV aren't sold because not that many people can
> > > afford two cars and because now and then they often want to make a
> > > longer trip like for the vacation.
>
http://www.pluginsupply.com/products.htm
may be OT for this forum but there is so much knowledge here. I have been
waiting patiently for my '04 to reach 150Kmile, out of warranty.
For those who can only afford one car-that is a different situation that they would carefully need to consider. If my family only could afford one car, I would have to think long and hard about what to get and would also need to consider what public transit options there are.
However, what I am discussing is for the majority of multi-car households. Personally I know only of one couple that only has one car-but I live in Los Angeles-so I suppose that might be different where you are. After more than a decade of experience I can say there is no question that at least the majority of multi-car households that one of those two cars could be a pure EV.
Best regards,
Larry
On Sep 2, 2009, at 3:05 AM, priusmaniac wrote:
Hi Larry,
As a second car, a pure EV can be convenient, for sure, but how much people can afford two cars these days, when so many cannot even afford one. How much people can afford to buy two cars, and pay the taxes, the parking, the insurances, the loans interest, the tolls and so on. Realistically, much more families are only able to buy one car and in that case, they must be able to count on it, whatever the distance they have to drive. Don't forget that many people are confronted with much more pressing needs like a house or simply daily living costs on food, water and clothing. If a family can afford two cars, that's fine, but it is not the case of many others who have to chose between a pure EV and a Plug-in Hybrid. Perhaps even between a Plug-in hybrid and a standard gas car. Now perhaps some families will chose to have only a pure EV and that's fine too, but most people tend prefer to keep the advantage of range and independence of a single source of energy supply, be it dwindling foreign oil, limited volatile biofuels or blackout prone grid electricity.
Sincerely yours,
Priusmaniac
--- Ingridable-hybrids@yahoogroups.com, Larry Paul <larry.paul@...> wrote: > > to "PriusManiac", > > I don't think that your opinion is universally accepted. I think > that probably 60 to 90% of all two car+ households could have one of > them being a four passenger 100 mile fully freeway capable pure EV. > > A brief history... > > In October of 1998 we were approved to be able to lease an EV. In > January of 1999 (4 months after we signed up) my wife and I began a 3 > year lease on a 100 mile capable Honda EV Plus. When we signed up, we > thought it would be our second car. Within the first week, we > realized that 100 miles is much more than we ever did on not only an > average day, but most days. Even living in Los Angeles. Outside of > one, one week road trip per year (could have rented a car) we only > used my gas car extremely rarely (and the battery would always die in > the gas car-so I had to keep it on a trickle charger to keep it from > killing the battery. The only reason that we kept the gas car is we > could not get another EV as the leasing program ended just a couple of > months after we got our car and we did not want to purchase another > gas car when what we had was fine...) > > Although there is often public charging available, we prefer not using > daytime power unless necessary-even if it is free since the cost to > operate the EV is at maximum around $0.015 cents per mile. > > Fast forward a few years and we were able to extend the lease on the > car for an extra year, when for not sure what reason-Toyota began > selling a limited number of Rav4EV's. We ordered ours-waited 4 months > and in the fall of 2002 we drove off the lot in our own Rav4EV. For > about 16 months we drove both cars until Honda would not extend the > lease under any circumstances. The car had nearly 59K miles on it and > it was in near brand new condition. During the time we had both EV's, > we only used a gas vehicle 4 days while in town. > > Fast forward 10+ years now, and we have now driven over 100K miles of > pure EV driving. We still drive our Rav4EV everyday and it is our > primary car for my wife during the week, but we take it as a family > nearly everywhere on the weekends. I am stuck with the Prius, an > excellent car-that I intend to sell as soon as there is a PHEV or > possibly another BEV that we can purchase. > > I do think from practical experience that at least one car in most > households could/should be a pure freeway capable pure EV and the > other should be a PHEV 40. (Plug in Hybrid with a 40 mile EV only > range). > > If you want to see if having just one 4 passenger, 100 mile capable > pure EV would be in your household, just reset the trip odometer in > each car each day and see how many times per year that you drive more > than 100 miles. Then also factor in how often do BOTH cars drive over > 100 miles in a day, and then consider how many times do you ever drive > over 100 miles in a day without knowing that you were going to drive > over 100 miles in a day. > > My 2 cents. > > Best regards, > > Larry > > > > > > > > > On Aug 6, 2009, at 7:52 AM, Bruce Bostwick wrote: > > > In the end pure EV aren't sold because not that many people can > > > afford two cars and because now and then they often want to make a > > > longer trip like for the vacation. >
Because PHEVs use less energy than gasoline-powered vehicles, their effect on
the environment is much less than that of vehicles powered by fossil fuels.
Because PHEVs are more efficient then petroleum-powered vehicles, they cost less
to run. While I believe it is unquestionable that EVs will be the de facto
transportation mode of choice in the years to come, PHEVs are the next step in
this direction that the consumer marketplace can accept at this time, since
there are hybrid electric vehicles on the road that need only to be electrified.
Purchase Costs of a Plug in Hybrid Electric Vehicle
Calcars, a non for profit promoting the use of plug-in hybrid electric vehicles
out of California and others are charging $10,500 - $15,000 for a conversion of
a Toyota Prius to a plug-in hybrid.
However, a conversion by a building your own will cost much less and will
increase the payback.
People routinely pay more for such options as sunroofs, automatic transmissions,
V8 engines, and leather seats. These are "features"—and no one asks about the
payback. A J.D. Power survey shows that buyers will pay more for cars with the
"environmental feature." How much more? The high demand for the Honda Civic
hybrid tells us that it's at least $3,000.
The Bottom Line About Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicles
A 2003 EPRI battery study shows that mass-produced PHEVs have already reached
life-cycle cost parity with gas-powered vehicles—using gas prices from three
years ago!
This means that the more maintenance-free electrical systems of PHEVs offset the
initial higher cost of batteries.
Payback?
The costs and benefits of cars extend far beyond an individual driver to society
as a whole. But when people talk about payback, they refer only to the net
dollars to the driver. Because this question never comes up when people pay a
premium for features like leather seats, we point out that millions of people
want the "environmental feature" (see J.D. Power and Associates' 2004 report).
Car and Driver's Patrick Bedard writes amusingly but tellingly about this issue.
Despite this, a 2003 EPRI study, assuming only $2 a gallon gas, zero buying
incentives, and a PHEV premium of $3,000 to $5,000 more than standard hybrids,
shows that the total lifetime cost of ownership for a PHEV will be lower than
that for any other vehicle type—so the payback will be there.
Just Do It!
Electric vehicles have also been around for more than 100 years, so making a
hybrid car and PHEV will greatly improve their range and performance. When you
do it yourself, any choice you wish to make for more speed, acceleration, or
range is readily accommodated.
Just do it.
Excerpt taken from Build Your Own Plug In Hybrid Electric Vehicle
GM is sponsoring a free open to the public day and DTE energy has arranged for
some plugin vehicles to be available for test drives. I will be there all week,
interviewing manufacturers and posting pictures.
www.GreenCarMagazine.net
The all new Lexus LFA supercar is not a hybrid, electric drive , fuel cell or
even a flex-fuel vehicle. In fact its 4.8 L V10 internal combustion engine
generates 552 hp and produces large amounts of CO2. So why I am writing about
it on GreenCar Magazine? Why would we highlight a limited production handmade
vehicle that generates 354 lb-ft of non-green torque and can reach a top speed
of 202 mph? The answer is that in order to obtain this level of performance
Lexus has incorporated some materials innovations that when applied to an EV
design will yield greener returns.
http://www.greencarmagazine.net/2009/10/lexuss-new-non-green-lfa-supercar-makes-\
its-debut/
News: http://www.4evriders.org
•USA: Electric cars to be assembled in central New York
•USA: Electric car industry pulls in for quick charge at Microsoft
•USA: Congress passes bill that will allow makers of three-wheeled vehicles to
become eligible for federal funds
•UPDATE: Sanyo To Produce Lithium-Ion Batteries For Plug-In Hybrid Cars
•Electric vehicles are charging up the automotive industry
•The competition for the best car battery begins
•USA: World's Largest Cash-Back Rebate: $42K Off Tesla Roaster
•USA: Electric car-maker to build vehicles at Del. plant
•India: Reva plans battery leasing to push car sales
•Japan: SANYO WEIGHS MAKING HYBRID VEHICLE BATTERY SYSTEMS ABROAD
Looking for investment opportunities in EV and Plug-in Hybrids,
please visit and search this EV site regularly at http://www.4evriders.org
for the latest news and archive on EV and Plug-in Hybrids.
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A project to develop a new all-electric urban car, that will be affordable for
many consumers when it reaches market and manufactured using an innovative and
sustainable production process has been announced in the UK. It comes at a time
when many companies are announcing development programs for electric or zero
emission vehicles , hybrids and plug-in hybrids but how these vehicles are made
may be as important to the environment as the fuel they do or don't use.
http://www.greencarmagazine.net/2009/11/how-green-are-zero-emission-vehicles/
A silicon solar panel manufacturer
has announced plans to close its U.S. plant, another is moving
production to China, and a third is downsizing.
All three companies are switching to more modern technology in a
business climate of inventory buildup and overcapacity for crystalline
silicon solar panels and industry pricing below the cost of producing
the familiar panels that are the basis for most solar installations in
the United States.
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