-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [electric_vehicles_for_sale] Why do people buy cars? b.s.
to say "Hybrid cost not justified"
From: Lisa Rosen <lrosen@...>
Date: Thu, July 02, 2009 9:48 am
To: electric_vehicles_for_sale@yahoogroups.com

Operating an auto bring mobility into your life.
Humans are passionate about mobility, and I suspect, if you could wire
up their brains you could see that for most of us, the neurons
associated with love light up in the brain with respect to their
vehicle. When the passionate part of love cools, sometimes people
reflect on the virtues (or defects) that the object of their affection
embodies.
Car ads that sell vehicles usually emphasize sex and power.
There are humans who try to be rational in their choice of a mate and in
their transportation and consumer decisions. I bet they are outnumbered.
Lisa

doug korthof wrote:
>
>
>
> What really sells cars has been nailed-down by decades of research. One
> factor is a cost-benefits equation ("what car has the lowest operating
> cost over its expected life-cycle") but it's certainly not a major
> factor, and mostly done, if at all, in an intuitive, "what cars do I
> know of, was I happy with the last car of this maker" sort of visual manner.
>
> It's interesting that right-wing "stink-tanks" allied with the oil
> industry are raising this non-issue "issue" as a reason for people to
> turn away from more efficient cars. Sort of like the stupid claim that
> plug-in cars had "emissions" from the power plant that produced the
> electric -- but they never included the war-well-refinery-water-health
> "emissions" for each gallon of gasoline (in fact, they play with mpg
> numbers inflated with supposed "flex fuel" adjustments). These sorts of
> unfair comparisons and direct lies are something you've just got to get
> used to in the EV mileau.
>
> People, with rare exceptions, don't give a hoot about life-cycle cost,
> or "gasoline+repairs minus cost savings" type of calculations as if they
> were done on a ten-key. It's just plain not what sells cars. Maybe it
> ought to be, but it's not.
>
> And it's a baldfaced lie to raise that issue with EVs.
>
> EV buyers don't calculate their gas savings when deciding to buy (if
> they were allowed to buy) an EV!!
>
> The swooping beauty of the fact that the EV allows you to avoid gas
> stations entirely is what draws people to EVs.
>
> And the even more butterflies-in-the-stomach, gasp-of-joy idea that you
> could power the car with solar power you make yourself.
>
> That's what led people to stand in the rain for the bare chance of being
> allowed to buy an oil-free EV. That "wow" factor that Klutz is
> supposedly looking for, but failed to find with his insipid "Malibu" and
> that Miata knock-off (can't remember its name even).
>
> I don't think any Tesla or RAV4-EV buyer thought about dollars per mile!!
>
> As for hybrids, people buy them mainly for image, like all other
> purchases; no one seriously thinks their car will break down or need
> service, unless they personally know of other cars just like this that
> had problems!
>
> I defy anyone to admit that they looked up the service schedule of a new
> car when thinking of buying it! I'm sure there are such people,
> somewhere, and I'd love to unearth them from their strange planet-- but
> they, like me, are statistically insignificant.
>
> We don't count in the overall equation of car sales, because we're
> outside the mass market. EVs are revolutionary, and that's why Big Oil
> and its puppet GM stamped them out.
>
> Even today, ask people if they know that Chevron sued Toyota which then
> stopped making Electric cars, and you'll be met with a blank,
> uncomprehending stare. "If it were true, why haven't I heard about it,"
> is the unspoken question.
>
> Indeed, why has the major media kept away from this amazing story??
>
> So the idea that people will do some sort of unconscious
> calculus-of-variations calculation about gas savings vs. price vs.
> city-or-highway-miles vs. repair costs is complete and utter bulls***.
>
> If looking for an efficent car, people MAY do an intuitive calculation
> about how much gas it uses, and any cars they know their friends to have
> bought that have broken down or done well, and whether they could
> picture buying gas for it in their mind. They might think, "gee, could I
> stand spending that much gasoline", or some such thought-experiment.
>
> But most car buyers, I suspect, don't even look at the mpg numbers; when
> I went to a GMC dealer, they would not even give me, as a prospective
> buyer, the mpg numbers.
>
> /Doug
>
> that cars actually sell have been s--- In
> electric_vehicles_for_sale@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:electric_vehicles_for_sale%40yahoogroups.com>, "John Penry at
> TransTexasTrucks" <jpenry@...> wrote:
> >
> > Wheels: G.M. to End Pontiac Vibe Production in AugustChevy killed the
> puny Malibu Hybrid, as sales were dismal. They say that Ford is selling
> the Fusion Hybrid, although....
> >
> > The fusion hybrid, according to the New York Times.
> >
> > While most hybrids can operate on electric power alone only up to
> about 25 miles an hour, the Fusion Hybrid can be coaxed up to 47 m.p.h.
> before the gas engine kicks in. But all-electric mode will take you only
> a mile or so before the batteries need a recharge.
> >
> > Without all the budget-busting extras, Ford notes that the Hybrid
> costs about $3,300 more than a comparable gasoline model, the 4-cylinder
> Fusion SEL. Consider not only the price but the economy, too. The
> gas-only Fusion also gets impressive mileage; the Fusion S's 34 m.p.g.
> highway rating is just 2 m.p.g. less than the hybrid. Do you drive
> enough in the city to foresee a payoff from the hybrid's higher urban
> mileage (41 m.p.g. vs. 23 for the gasoline 4-cylinder)?
> >
> > 2 mpg better than the ICE version for $3400. Anybody who buys this
> for "saving money on gas" is not going to be happy.
> >
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/automobiles/autoreviews/21fusion-hybrid.html?_r=1
> <http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/automobiles/autoreviews/21fusion-hybrid.html?_r=1>
> >
> > 15000/34 vs 15000/36 (miles per year/mpg)
> > Gasoline Consumed
> > 441 gallons 416 gallons.
> >
> > $3300 additional cost.
> > savings per year: 25 gallons.
> > at $4 per gallon, the Fusion hybrid buyer gets to "save" $100 per year.
> > It would take 33 YEARS to recover the up front cost.
> >
> > Now, be kind, and do the math on a 51 mpg Prius.
> > 15000/51
> > 294 gallons used per year
> > Savings per year 147 gallons.
> > At $4 per gallon, the savings is $588 per year.
> > And... the PRIUS COSTS LESS than the Fusion.
> >
> > When will Detroit "GET IT"?
> >
> > While most hybrids can operate on electric power alone only up to
> about 25 miles an hour, the Fusion Hybrid can be coaxed up to 47 m.p.h.
> before the gas engine kicks in. But all-electric mode will take you only
> a mile or so before the batteries need a recharge.
> >
> > That is why I am waiting for the Plug-in Version. Maybe it will
> actually have a payback before the car is paid for.
> >
> > John Penry
> > www.transtexastrucks.com
> >
> > Pickups, SUVs, vans, and the like represent about 80 million
> vehicles, with mileage of perhaps 13 to 16 miles per gallon. Converting
> these should be our first priority. The instincts of conservationists
> have been to improve what is already pretty good-compact cars with
> decent fuel efficiency. Our national priority to decrease the amount of
> oil-based energy dictates that we go after the low-mileage part of the
> fleet first.
> > --Andy Grove "Our Electric Future"
> >
>
>