Don,

We may have just what you are looking for. What carb model and are we
talking about an MGB or a Midget?

Rick

> -----Original Message-----
> From: TBIinjection@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:TBIinjection@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of dfuehrer_mg
> Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 2:21 PM
> To: TBIinjection@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [TBIinjection] Do you have a kit for a 1979 MG?
>
> Hi,
>
> Looking to replace the old ZS on my '79 MG. Any ideas?
>
> Don

David,

I have thought about using Bosch injectors however they are tall and the
fuel connection makes them even taller. Fuel enters TBI injectors around the
base helping keep the profile low. Regular Bosch injectors are so tall the
carb dome cannot be refitted to hide them and even without the dome, they
will hit the underside of the hood (bonnet?) on the TR6. Also TBI injectors
have very high flow rates usually about 55lbs an hour! And at $14.99 each
(used item #8020108879) on ebay they are hard to beat!

That said, I wouldn't rule it out if a suitable injector can be found. Any
suggestions?

Rick


> here in Europe it is much more easy to find Bosch injectors (in the
> junkyards or new) than GM injectors (quite impossible to find except
> through eBay).
>
> Do you think you can make, for us european people, some inserts at the
> correct size for some Bosch injectors ? Or maybe the current ones can
> be used with Bosch injectors with no problem ?
>

Hello David

Snip > snip >


> As far as I've understood, the two carburetors on the B30 are not used
> "for the same thing" :
>  . the front one as the throttle cable attached while the rear one is
> connected with link rods
>  . the rear one as the "cold start device" (and not the front one),
> operated by choke cable
>  . both have a "hot start valve" (explained in the PDF : when the
> carbs are hot, the fumes are ventillated to the air filter through
> hoses, allowing hot statts but creating backfire and/or fire in the
> air filter, some C303/6 burnt to hell because of that)
>  . both have the "temperature compensator"

Just read the PDF. A very complete description and great to have a resource
like this available (thanks Jim). Cold start enrichment is handled by the
ECU with feedback from the coolant temp sensor. The cold start valve
passages can be blocked off and the lever still function for fast idle by
pulling on the hand choke. The hand choke wouldn't enrich the mixture but it
would allow for fast idle to warm the engine sooner and that would only be
beneficial in very cold temps.  Without any fuel in the float chamber it
probably isn't even be necessary to block off the cold start passages. Same
with the hot start valve- no fuel in the float bowls so it doesn't do a
thing.
>
> >  The TPS bracket may need to
> > be lengthened to get out beyond the auto choke in some cases but
> that is a minor problem.
snip>>
> http://www.volvo4x4.com/bulk/files/c303/Section2Engine-4.pdf ?
> It's the "fuel system" documentation of our engine, hosted on Jim's
website

Judging by the PDF illustration the TPS can mount on the throttle of the
rear carb shown in illustration 23-3. That should be easy with the current
bracket design.
>
snip>>

> Would not the "easiest" solution be to remove the 175CD 2-SE and put a
> pair of emptied standard 175 CD (found for cheap on Range Rovers) with
> no temperature compensator ?
>
I don't think it would be worth the trouble to change carbs. Why disturb
linkage, gaskets, etc? Part of the beauty of this conversion is to use the
original carbs.

snip>

Must admit I was surprised to see secondary throttle plates in the intake
manifold. Pretty clever but not your ordinary installation. Just curious;
are those throttles functional on your engine? I wonder because it mentioned
opening them for heavy loads and guess that to get more power you might lock
them open. Also wonder if running fuel injection with better metering, if it
would be best to keep them open? Zooom zoom

Rick

Hi,

Looking to replace the old ZS on my '79 MG. Any ideas?

Don

Rick,

here in Europe it is much more easy to find Bosch injectors (in the
junkyards or new) than GM injectors (quite impossible to find except
through eBay).

Do you think you can make, for us european people, some inserts at the
correct size for some Bosch injectors ? Or maybe the current ones can
be used with Bosch injectors with no problem ?

Thanks in advance,
David.

Rick,

--- In TBIinjection@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <rick@t...> wrote:

> The adapter inserts that house the injector will fit the CD175 2-SE
on the
> Volvo without any problem. The late TR6's use the same carb.

This is great news.

> The only question is about fitting the throttle position sensor.

I think it is just like on the TR6 8)

> The TR6 uses a
> mechanical choke so there is plenty of room for a bracket and sensor.

Same here.

As far as I've understood, the two carburetors on the B30 are not used
"for the same thing" :
  . the front one as the throttle cable attached while the rear one is
connected with link rods
  . the rear one as the "cold start device" (and not the front one),
operated by choke cable
  . both have a "hot start valve" (explained in the PDF : when the
carbs are hot, the fumes are ventillated to the air filter through
hoses, allowing hot statts but creating backfire and/or fire in the
air filter, some C303/6 burnt to hell because of that)
  . both have the "temperature compensator"

> I have
> several versions of CD175 2-SE's but only one with an auto choke and
even
> that choke has been converted to a manual cable. The TPS bracket may
need to
> be lengthened to get out beyond the auto choke in some cases but
that is a
> minor problem. Send me a close up photo of the side of the rear
carb's choke
> detail and I can get you a better answer.

Can you take a look at
http://www.volvo4x4.com/bulk/files/c303/Section2Engine-4.pdf ?
It's the "fuel system" documentation of our engine, hosted on Jim's
website (just registered to the group too).

> Temperature compensators on these carbs are a constant struggle
especially
> at idle and very low speeds. A small amount of air passing the
compensator
> is insignificant to the TBI system although for the optimum set up, the
> compensator should be adjusted so it never opens or is blocked shut.

Would not the "easiest" solution be to remove the 175CD 2-SE and put a
pair of emptied standard 175 CD (found for cheap on Range Rovers) with
no temperature compensator ?

> The bypass circuit is not used with TBI and it also should be
blocked off too.
> Even without converting to TBI it is a good idea to disable the bypass
> circuits. Part of the kit is a brass block off plate  (see:
> http://topshamautoparts.com/tr6/bypass.htm ).

I've seen that on your site 8)

> The ECM takes over idle enrichment and idling never needs adjusting
again.

This is what I like in the system : no more fight with the settings.

> I'd really like to see this conversion on the Volvo's and how about
the Jag
> guys or the Rovers?

I'll have a talk with some friends who own Range Rovers (I'm an
ex-Land Rover owner)...

David.

David,

I have replied to your first email but will share this with the group.

The adapter inserts that house the injector will fit the CD175 2-SE on the
Volvo without any problem. The late TR6's use the same carb. The only
question is about fitting the throttle position sensor. The TR6 uses a
mechanical choke so there is plenty of room for a bracket and sensor. I have
several versions of CD175 2-SE's but only one with an auto choke and even
that choke has been converted to a manual cable. The TPS bracket may need to
be lengthened to get out beyond the auto choke in some cases but that is a
minor problem. Send me a close up photo of the side of the rear carb's choke
detail and I can get you a better answer.

Temperature compensators on these carbs are a constant struggle especially
at idle and very low speeds. A small amount of air passing the compensator
is insignificant to the TBI system although for the optimum set up, the
compensator should be adjusted so it never opens or is blocked shut. The
bypass circuit is not used with TBI and it also should be blocked off too.
Even without converting to TBI it is a good idea to disable the bypass
circuits. Part of the kit is a brass block off plate  (see:
http://topshamautoparts.com/tr6/\bypass.htm ). The ECM takes over idle
enrichment and idling never needs adjusting again.

I'd really like to see this conversion on the Volvo's and how about the Jag
guys or the Rovers?

Rick
http://topshamautoparts.com/tr6/

David,
   I decided to join this list as well. While the B30E manifold will
fit in the engine bay of the Volvo C303, I do not want to have to
change the cylinder head as well. Having reviewed the linked site
for the carb conversion, this looks like the best route to go to
convert these trucks to TBI.

Jim Molloy
Waldersee Farm
http://www.northwestmogfest.com
http://www.volvo4x4.com

--- In TBIinjection@yahoogroups.com, "David Touitou" <david@s...>
wrote:
>
> Hello all.
>
> Brand new to the group, found Rick's page through a bit of googling
> (sorry for the private mail Rick, I did not surf your whole website
> before sending it).
>
> I own a Volvo C303 which is equiped with a B30a engine.
>
> The B30a is equiped with a pair of CD175 2-SE (IIRC the difference
> with the CD175 is the temperature compensator) which are "nice" but
> also are :
>  . a pain to setup (especialy in the C303, considering you're
sitting
> above the engine)
>  . a BIG fuel eater (currently 23 liters per 100 km)
>  . a VERY BIG issue/danger (known to leak fuel on the exhaust
manifold
> which is underneaf and/or to backfire due to the "hot-start device"
> sending fuel gas in the air filter)
>
> So my first big newbie question : can your kit be used on a 2-SE
> version of the CD175 ?
>
> I don't know with ECU I'll use yet (CustomEFIs, MegaSquirt, other),
> maybe with a double setup (onroad and offroad).
>
> David.
>

Hello all.

Brand new to the group, found Rick's page through a bit of googling
(sorry for the private mail Rick, I did not surf your whole website
before sending it).

I own a Volvo C303 which is equiped with a B30a engine.

The B30a is equiped with a pair of CD175 2-SE (IIRC the difference
with the CD175 is the temperature compensator) which are "nice" but
also are :
  . a pain to setup (especialy in the C303, considering you're sitting
above the engine)
  . a BIG fuel eater (currently 23 liters per 100 km)
  . a VERY BIG issue/danger (known to leak fuel on the exhaust manifold
which is underneaf and/or to backfire due to the "hot-start device"
sending fuel gas in the air filter)

So my first big newbie question : can your kit be used on a 2-SE
version of the CD175 ?

I don't know with ECU I'll use yet (CustomEFIs, MegaSquirt, other),
maybe with a double setup (onroad and offroad).

David.

I am looking to "poor" my SU carb as it is currently running rich.
The float chamber body appears to be internal to the carb as we cannot
locate the darn thing anywhere, nor can we locate the jet adjusting
nut.  If anyone can assist in this without having to dismantle and
rebuild a carb, it seems as though there should be an external nut to
adjust the mixture, but for the life of me, I cannot locate it.

Thanks in advance,
Tim

Hello Hoyt,

You are probably correct that the TR6 CD-175 carb will bolt right up but I'm
not sure about linkage. The advantage of converting the original carbs is
that there is no messing with linkage and the conversion can easily be
reversed if you are into originality. Of course, once you convert you'll
never want to go back.

Rick

On Monday 24 October 2005 08:55 pm, Rick wrote:
> Yes I'm working on a set up for the TR4 this winter. The electronics are
> easy as they are readily adaptable so the project is the SU conversion to
> throttle bodies. The hope is to have a good workable design around the
> first of the year.
>
> Rick
>
The TR4 Strombergs are bolt-on replacements for the SU's all the way back to
early TR2's, IIRC. Are the TR6 Strombergs the same as the TR4's?

--
Hoyt

Yes I'm working on a set up for the TR4 this winter. The electronics are
easy as they are readily adaptable so the project is the SU conversion to
throttle bodies. The hope is to have a good workable design around the first
of the year.

Rick

Since you're using only two carbs, is it possible to adapt this to
the TR3/4 engine?

Hi Mark,

To date nobody has tried using a supercharger with my TBI. My goal has been
to try to keep costs down and make the set up affordable and reliable. That
said;

It may work well if you use just one large carb body with a TBI injector on
the intake side of the blower. The other method is to pump air into the
carbs and in that case you would have to plug off all the internal passages
the carbs. Besides a supercharger you would need to change the MAP sensor to
a 2-bar type, increase fuel pressure to at least 30psi, and reprogram the
ECM.

Rick


> -----Original Message-----
> From: TBIinjection@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:TBIinjection@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of markamdall
> Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 2:36 PM
> To: TBIinjection@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [TBIinjection] Supercharging
>
>
> Is your TBI conversion compatable with future supercharging?  Has
> anyone completed such an installation?
> Thanks in advance,
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Is your TBI conversion compatable with future supercharging?  Has
anyone completed such an installation?
Thanks in advance,
Mark

Thought to post my work installing throttle body fuel injection and
electronic ignition form a 90 chevy !/2 ton 4.3 and adapting it to my
47 Fargo 1/2 ton with the origonal flathead 6

here is the link
http://schaners.com/fargo/brakesinjection.htm

Hi,

At present this TBI set up is probably not compatible with your electronic
ignition but it is something that may be doable in the not too distant
future.

Rick

> -----Original Message-----
> From: pjaggerus [mailto:pjaggerus@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 2:46 PM
> To: TBIinjection@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [TBIinjection] Existing Electronic Ignition
>
>
>
>
> My car already has electronic ignition.  Will I have to ditch that to
> go with your FI system - or can it be accommodated?
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

My car already has electronic ignition.  Will I have to ditch that to
go with your FI system - or can it be accommodated?

Phil

Hello Bob,

>-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Danielson [mailto:bob@...]
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 7:28 PM
To: patton@...
Subject: TBI Questions


Hi,
I posted a question and the link to your TBI site on the Triumph mail
list and got an email from Aaron about his car. I'm very interested
in your TBI product but have lots of questions. I just finished
installing Dan Master's Wiring Harness so TBI would be a Winter
project come November. I also want to see how Aaron's car does
through a complete driving season and then talk to you guys at Stowe
in September.

>In the meantime, here's my questions:

I saw your post to the 6-Pack list, Thanks. About those question:

>I have the stock mechanical fuel pump. Do I have to install an
electric pump?

You will need an electric pump designed for throttle body fuel
pressures (about 30 PSI). A new fuel pump is part of the CustomEFIS
kit.

>I have the stock points/condenser distributor. How is that impacted?

To run any electronic fuel injection system you need a pulse from the
ignition system that tells the computer how fast the engine is
turning. In this conversion, your points and condenser are replaced
with a magnetic pick up and a GM ignition module takes over ignition
control. The distributor conversion is done by CustomEFIS and
included in his kit price. No more points to mess with- ever.

>I have a Hayden Electric Fan that has the thermostat  probe inserted
in the radiator. It looks like you require a connection in the
radiator hose. Is that correct? Do I retain my existing fan
connections?

Your electric fan set up is perfect just as it is. No need to do make
any changes to it's wiring. There is a tee added at the thermostat
housing for a coolant temp sensor. The sensor is required as it
reports engine temp back to the computer so more fuel can be added
for a cold engine etc.

>My emissions is half on, half off i.e. no air pump but still a
carbon canister and lots of hoses. Does this matter? You can see
what's there on my web site.

Emissions won't matter, and judging by the way Aaron's car runs, a
TR6 may never have left the factory running this clean. Now I'm
saying that only as speculation as no emission testing has been done.
An upcoming installation will be required to pass emissions testing
so I'll be sure to post the results.

>Do you and CustomEFIS have your installation manuals available on-
line? Dan had his harness manual available in .pdf format which was
quite helpful in determining the skill level needed for the
installation.

I have started my on line instructions and will continue creating
them once Aaron's car comes out of storage so it can be photographed.
You can look at:  http://topshamautoparts.com/tr6/TPS.htm  and
http://topshamautoparts.com/tr6/bypass.htm. I will do most of the TR6
instructions as CustomEFIS doesn't have access to a TR6 and
installation of their computer is the same for nearly all makes and
model cars.

>How does the TBI harness connect to the TR6 harness? Remember, I
have Dan's harness on my car now.

The harness from CustomEFIS is plug and play however you will need to
connect to power, ground, and run the fuel pump wiring. If you have
already replaced a TR6 wiring harness, this is like falling off a log.

>It seemed that on Aaron's car the original choke was retained as the
mechanism to control the "high speed idle". Is that correct and the
only need to retain the choke?

That's correct. We initially used an idle air control motor then
decided for various reasons to eliminate it. Pulling the choke works
the high idle cam for warm up. It doesn't richen the mixture as that
is now computer controlled. In warm weather increasing idle speed may
not even be necessary. No modification or adjustment of the choke is
done as part of the conversion.

> What's involved in syncing the carbs? How's it done?

In this case syncing the carbs is just ensuring that both carbs allow
the same amount of air to enter the engine. There is no fuel
adjustment done as that is computer controlled. Instructions for
syncing carbs will be in any TR6 repair manual. I use a UniSyn meter
however some folks do it by ear.

>I don't want to "source" anything myself. I got the impression that
you don't supply something, maybe the injectors and the return hosing
to the fuel tank? So I guess my question is: Do you and CustomEFIS
supply and guarantee everything needed to complete this installation?
Honestly, I'm concerned about spending $1300 - 1500 and having to
source additional parts that wouldn't be guaranteed. Using Dan's
harness as an example, he supplied everything right down to the
bullet connectors and wire ties.

There are a few things that neither CustomEFIS or myself supply. The
big thing is injectors. These TBI injectors are nearly bullet proof
and last forever. New or remanufactured injectors sell for around
$100 each or you can purchase a used pair on ebay for $15. I've only
seen one faulty TBI injector and it probably just needed cleaning so
I'm comfortable with used injectors and most folks that I've talked
with would rather save the money. My local salvage yard sells them
for $5 a pair if you harvest them yourself.

There is an installation going on now in Florida and we will get
together and review the completeness of the kits afterward.


>It seems like we have to deal with two different vendors and order
from each of them. Is that correct?

Yes there are two venders. I know it's not ideal but other than
making two purchases there should be no problem. My parts are
specific for conversion of ZS carbs to throttle bodies and are made
in my small machine shop. Other than the throttle position sensor
there are no moving parts to wear out or replace. The kit from
CustomEFIS is all the electronic parts, fuel pump, and regulator etc
to complete the conversion. Additionally they will work with you to
tune your car.

>Any thoughts to supplying the complete package yourself? It's always
easier for the customer when there's only one vendor involved.

Well if there were to be only one supplier, it should be CustomEFIS
but only if they purchase my parts. They are infinitely better
qualified to assist you with tuning and creating a profile to run
your car. After all that is their niche. I'm happy to stick with
machining and fabricating parts.

>Sorry about all the questions, but I want to totally understand the
product before making a purchase decision.

>Bob Danielson
1975 TR6
http://tr6.danielsonfamily.org

Hope that answers some of your questions. Keep em' coming,

Rick Patton
http://topshamautoparts.com/tr6/

From Mike Flynn:

It sounds like you have come up with a great fuel injection set-up.
I have a couple of additional questions for you.

Any idea what the set-up does to emissions?  I am in Chicago-land and
have to get checked regularly.

Do you have the detailed installation instruction anywhere on the
web?  I want to make sure that I am not getting in over my head.

What is your and Custom EFIS's warrantee on the kit?

If I want to order everything I need for the install will the
following cover everything I need:

     Your TBI kit
     2 - Injectors (GM Part # 5235130)
     CustomEFIS's Kit
     (plus some welding for exhaust temp sensor)

Finally, I will probably do this install with an electric fan set-
up.  Is there anything special I need to know/do with fan and this
kit?

Thanks in advance,


Mike Flynn

'74 TR6 - Emerald Green
______________________________________________________________________
________


-----Original Message-----
From: Rick <patton@...>
To: Mike Flynn <Mike.Flynn@...>
CC: CustomEFIS <CustomEFIS2@...>
Sent: Wed Mar 23 01:06:09 2005
Subject: RE: TBI for TR6

Hi,

Thanks for the kind words. The TBI conversion has surpassed all my
expectations.

          > -----Original Message-----
          > F rom: Mike Flynn [mailto:Mike.Flynn@...]
          > Se  nt: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 10:28 AM
          > To: patton@...
          > Subject: TBI for TR6


          > It sounds like you have come up with a great fuel
injection set-up.  I have a couple of additional questions for you.

          > Any idea what the set-up does to emissions?  I am in
Chicago-land and have to get checked regularly.

         Here in Maine we no longer have actual dyno emissions testing
but the car runs so much better, smoother etc, and gets far better
mileage than stock it has to be cleaner than the levels set for a
Triumph of this age. Aaron is getting nearly 30mpg and his spark
plugs are clean and white. That said I can't guarantee that it will
pass but I'd say the odds are very much in favor. I've always thought
that the people doing the inspections have no idea what the under
hood area of a Triumph looks like. This conversion is "experimental"
and has not been approved by any government agency.

          > Do you have the detailed installation instruction anywhere
on the web?  I want to make sure that I am not getting in over my
head.

         The installation is very straight forward. I have a couple of
links for the throttle position sensor and the carb bypass block
offs. Look at: http://topshamautoparts.com/tr6/TPS.htm
<http://topshamautoparts.com/tr6/TPS.htm>   and
http://topshamautoparts.com/tr6/bypass.htm
<http://topshamautoparts.com/tr6/bypass.htm>

         I also have a video on CD that I created for CustomEFIS to
show them around the installation and let him see some of their parts
in place. If you are serious I'll send you a copy of the CD. I'll be
working on more detailed instructions soon.

          > What is your and Custom EFIS's warrantee on the kit?

         My parts are warranteed against defect as are CustomEFIS
products. Rest assured that both of us will be sure the parts work as
advertised.

          > If I want to order everything I need for the install will
the following cover everything I need:

             Your TBI kit
             2 - Injectors (GM Part # 5235130)
             CustomEFIS's Kit
             (plus some welding for exhaust temp sensor)

         There are some very small items like the brass street tee for
the coolant temp sensor, small nuts and bolts, wire ties. and little
things of that nature.

          > Finally, I will probably do this install with an electric
fan set-up.  Is there anything special I need to know/do with fan and
this kit?

         Aaron is running TBI and an electric fan on his car. To do so
we used two of the street tees like the one shown on web page
http://topshamautoparts.com/tr6/Spring2003.htm coupled together. One
provided a home for the coolant temp sensor and the other a home for
the fan switch. A word of caution is that one person has tried the
same type of fan switch that Aaron uses and tells me things get too
hot before the fan switches on.  He may have difficulty but Aaron's
is still working perfectly. You can always add the type of fan switch
that mounts between the radiator fins instead.

         I will add your name to my TBI email list and would you mind
if this message and reply is posted on the TBI message board?

         thanks for taking an interest ,

         Rick Patton
         75 TR6

This post is made up of excerpts of emails between Rick Patton and
Mike Lunsford concerning installation of a TBI system in March of 2005

__________________________________________________________

Hi Mike,

Wow, I think this would be the perfect Club project! Great idea.

Having a good knowledge of the TR6 is super, the fuel injection
familiarity
will come as the project comes together. This is an easy installation
if you
can handle basic mechanical repairs and do a little wiring, although
the
harness from CustomEFIS takes most of the work out of wiring. The
installation takes about a weekend and can be done in stages with the
car
still driveable. Things go quicker if you have a lift as it makes the
fuel
pump and related under car plumbing easier.

You have an early car with a late model head but that should not be a
problem. The only thing to consider is the O2 sensor. Aaron's car is
a 71
and has a single downpipe where the O2 sensor is mounted. The later
cars
with two pipes obviously only monitor the mixture for three
cylinders. That
should not be a problem as long as the engine has even compression
and the
two injectors supply fuel at the same rates. My multiport car
monitors only
one pipe.

I have a video on CD that I made to show the folks at CustomEFIS the
project
and especially their components. It is rather crude and certainly
amateurish
but I will send you a copy if you wish. Just need a mailing address.

In April we will be in Englewood and make a couple of day trips up to
Spring
Hill. Perhaps we can get together then.


night,

Rick
______________________________________________________________________
____
Rick,

I'm looking forward to reviewing the CD. I have several other guys
who own 6s down here who are really interested in how this project
will work out.  See Carl Tela's message below for example.  I have
several questions that you have no doubt already considered.  They
are:
1.  Wouldn't it be just as easy to get an intake manifold from an old
PI setup from somewhere like Australia and build an EFI port
injection setup instead of a throttle body?
2.  What are your views on how a port injection setup compares to a
throttle body setup power wise?
3. Would the EFI equipment you get from your supplier support a port
setup as well as throttle body?
4.  Will the EFI setup support two O2 sensors?
5.  Would we be better off with a triple carb eg Goodparts setup for
the TBI instead of 2 carbs?
Don't get the wrong Idea, I'm very intererested in the TBI
installation but these questions are floating around in my mind.
I'll get back with you after I review the CD you are sending.  Cheers.

Mike Lunsford

______________________________________________________________________
_______

Hello Mike,


>Rick,

>I'm looking forward to reviewing the CD. I have several other guys
who own
6s down here who are really interested in how this project will work
out.
See Carl Tela's message below for example. I have several questions
that
you have no doubt already considered. They are:

>1. Wouldn't it be just as easy to get an intake manifold from an old
PI
setup from somewhere like Australia and build an EFI port injection
setup
instead of a throttle body?

People have been calling for an affordable, easily installed fuel
injection
system and I think this the answer. When you receive the CD the ease
of
installation etc will be obvious. Sure you could get a manifold and
adapt it
but then YOU will need to reinvent the wheel so to speak. Believe me
that it
is a long drawn out process to bring it all together.

>2. What are your views on how a port injection setup compares to a
throttle body setup power wise?

My car is multiport and Aaron's TBI. Bottom line is that right now
his car
runs better. It is a real pleasure to drive, runs great, and has
plenty of
power. I may have a tad more oomph but I'm also about $2,000 ahead in
cost
and still have much sorting out to do.

>3. Would the EFI equipment you get from your supplier support a port
setup
as well as throttle body?

I think so but you should check with CustomEFIS.

>4. Will the EFI setup support two O2 sensors?

I don't think so but someone with more electronic knowledge may have
an
idea. You could certainly run two with a selector switch. Aaron's car
now
has two bungs welded in as we ran an air/fuel mixture monitor while
tuning.

>5. Would we be better off with a triple carb eg Goodparts setup for
the
TBI instead of 2 carbs?

I'd be very very surprised if the three carbs would give you more
power and
guarantee that the TBI set up makes the car smooth, dependable, and
economical. I also remember my AH 3000 with triple carbs- you could
spend a
lot of time adjusting them and then it was on ongoing process. Must
admit
that I really liked that car. Also remember this set up is tunable
for both
fuel and ignition, has datalogging capabilities, and real time
monitoring.
Try that with carbs!

Rick

______________________________________________________________________
_

Hi Mike,

Attached is a photo of your kit. I'd hoped to ship it today but is
still
needs to be pressure tested. Hope to get that done tomorrow night and
get it
on the way no later than Friday morning.

It looks very good and everything should just drop in place.

In the kit are:

2 TBI adapters
2 Brass block off plates
1 Throttle position sensor
1 Throttle position sensor bracket
1 Throttle position lever
8 SS mounting screws
1 Ignition module mounting plate
2 sets of spare o-rings

Instructions are also in the works. There are a series of photos
showing the
TPS and the bypass block off plates (I remember that you have already
done
this). I will post the instructions with links to the photos and it
will be
like falling off a log.

I have started a Yahoo group called tbiinjection
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/TBIinjection/ to discuss TR6 and
other
ZS carb conversions. Please join in.

Can I expect a ride next month? We will be in Englewood from the 5th
to the
12th. I will definitely get in touch.

night,

Rick
______________________________________________________________________
_______

Aaron/Rick,

I just got the throttle bodies Rick sent last Friday.  If this thing
works as good as it looks it's going to be great. I think welding the
bungs for the O2 sensors is probably going to take the most time,
especially if I have to take welded pipes off of the exhaust
manifold.

My engine has the stock displacent and is the early edition (1970)
block.  The head has been milled and I have 9.98 to 1 compression.  I
have the head (late model with long runner intake and dual down
pipes.  I had the head ported, polished ,flowed and most anything
else that can be done to it.  Otherwise that's it.  Your last program
should work better than the stock GM set up for the 2.8 liter V6 so I
hope that's the way John programs the chip.  John said he should have
the electronics ready in about a week.  Cheers.

Mike Lunsford

______________________________________________________________________
_____________

Hi Mike,

Glad it looks good to you. They will cost you concours points!

I'm at home and don't have the part numbers handy but will email the
NAPA numbers for the bungs to you tomorrow. There are also matching
plugs if you want to have a bung put in each header pipe. The local
Meinke Muffler up this way puts them in when they build custom
exhaust systems. Maybe a local muffler shop can do the same for you.
The job can be done without removing the pipes.

The profile that John initially sends will likely be the one that
Aaron is running unless he wants to be conservative and run with less
timing and more fuel to start. Listen for detonation and read your
plugs.. After it's running John will have you create a datalog and
email it to him. He is very knowledgeable and will use it to make
sure everything is connected properly and operating as it should.
Once running he will work with you to fine tune the profile to your
engine configuration. It ought to be a very short tuning curve. Did
you order the Flash programmer?

Things that can be done prior to the arrival of John's kit:

O2 sensor bung

Installation of the throttle position sensor

Connection of the return line to the gas tank. I used a piece of
5/16" plastic fuel line (the black type used for fuel injection) and
connected it to the the tank vent at the top left corner of the tank.
You'll need to block off the hose that once connected to that vent.
The end of that line feeds down next through the grommet by the left
side of the gas tank. Until you are ready to fire it up this line can
just be plugged off. Once time comes for TBI, the end of the plastic
line is connected to the original steel fuel line. Following that
steel line forward it to where it is joined by a short rubber hose,
disconnect the rubber hose and connect the return line from the
regulator. I'm not sure what John will supply for line but it you
have questions just yell. Rubber hose can be used in place of the
plastic line.

Coolant temp sensor can be done now. Details can be seen at
http://topshamautoparts.com/tr6/Spring2003.htm
If you don't have the sensor yet a 3/8" pipe plug can be substituted
temporarily.

All of the above items can be done well ahead of time without
disabling the car.

night,

Rick

______________________________________________________________________

Mike,

The only reason you would want the programmer is to save some time.
Updated profiles from John will need to be sent snail mail.

NAPA part numbers for the O2 sensor bung is EXH 36339, a block off
plug is EXH 35299, and the O2 sensor is BSH 12014

night,

Rick

Spring is just around the corner- the ice breakers are starting up
the rivers!!
______________________________________________________________________


Rick,

I installed the TPS last night and, after I figured out what went
where it was a snap.  I had to take several looks at your TBI Project
CD before I learned what goes where.  I couldn't figure it out until
I realized that the small lever goes onto the linkage.  I have an
electric fan (pusher) on my car with a thermostat attached to the
bottom of the radiator so I won't need two water temperature
outlets.  I  have a connection (plugged at the moment) one the
gooseneck by the thermostat  where I can install the temperature
sensor.  Since John's kit includes a temp sensor with a lot of ther
things including the gas line I'm going to wait until he sends it
with the rest of the kit.  I'm going to pick up a couple of bungs and
one O2 sensor at NAPA this weekend so I can start the O2 install on
the exhaust next week.  I'm taking the car to a painter this weekend
to get some dings fixed after someone scraped my fender in a parking
lot.  Where does that 2.5 X 5.5 plate go? I can't wait to get this
thing installed.

MIke

______________________________________________________________________

Mike

Rick <patton@...> wrote:
Evening,

Glad to hear the TPS is installed but disappointed that my
instructions were confusing. Did you look at
http://topshamautoparts.com/tr6/TPS.htm  and
http://topshamautoparts.com/tr6/bypass.htm ?

You might want to call NAPA and ask if they stock those part numbers.
Down your way exhaust systems (and TR6's) last a lot longer so parts
stores don't stock as many exhaust items. I'm sure if they don't have
them on hand they will order them.

That aluminum plate is the mount for the ignition control module. It
slips behind the original coil mounting bracket and is held in place
by the original bolts. Looking at the plate the corner with four
small holes goes toward the rear of the engine and down. It probably
will be easier to mount the module before installing the plate.

night,

Rick

______________________________________________________________________

Neil,

Fuel piping is from the tank to a frame mounted fuel pump just below
the tank. From there line heads forward to the regulator mounted on
the right hand inner fender. There is no fuel rail as each injector
is fed by a hose. From the regulator a return line is run back to the
top of the tank into an existing vent line on the left side. Pump
pressure is about 30 psi and the regulator drops it to 12 or 13 psi.

The distributor is converted to electronic by CustomEFIS as part of
their kit. A common GM module handles the ignition and timing is
controlled by the ECM. Not sure about running coil packs, that's a
question for CustomEFIS.

Kits are shipping now. Look at web page
topshamautoparts.com/tr6/news0904.htm for more info.

Rick

Rick or Jim:
Can you describe how the fuel line routing and fuel pumping is
done?  What kind of pressures? How is the ruturn line run?  Is there
a fuel rail? What is done to the distributor? Can I make this system
work with a distributor-less ignition system (like coil packs)? When
will you be ready to sell the kits?
Neil Wehmeyer
'69 Damsom
Seattle

Hi Jim,

Good questions

1. Engine mods like cam, compression ratio, and headers are easily
tuned. I'm sure it will run with the initial profile.  Once running
you can take a ride, create a datalog with a laptop that is emailed
to CustomEFIS. They will modify the profile for your car and your
driving style and either snail mail another chip to you or better yet
email the new profile back that you can Flash program into the chip
yourself. If you want to Flash the chip you will need to purchase a
programmer from CustomEFIS for $100.

2. Changing the tach to electronic doesn't involve the mechanical
tach drive at all. You end up with programable ignition system that
still drives the original TR6 tach.

3. Will CustomEFIS personally help tune my car? In fact he does just
that when he sells a system only he does so via email. You will have
to ask him about getting his hands dirty. Contact him at:
CustomEFIS2@...

Rick Patton
Brunswick, Maine


--- In TBIinjection@yahoogroups.com, "jdavis344" <jdavis344@y...>
wrote:
>
> Rick,
> This sounds like a great system and mabe the answer many of us have
> been looking for to repalce our aging carbs.
> I have 3 questions:
> 1. Since my car has been modified with performance cam, increased
> compression and headers.. is the tuning process going to be
> troublesome?
> 2. If my distributor is converted to electronic, then I assume I'll
> have to have the tach converted also?
> 3. I work in Columbus, GA. Is the fellow that owns CustomEFIS
> available to help personally with the chip tuning?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim Davis
> Fortson, GA
> CF38690UO

Rick,
This sounds like a great system and mabe the answer many of us have
been looking for to repalce our aging carbs.
I have 3 questions:
1. Since my car has been modified with performance cam, increased
compression and headers.. is the tuning process going to be
troublesome?
2. If my distributor is converted to electronic, then I assume I'll
have to have the tach converted also?
3. I work in Columbus, GA. Is the fellow that owns CustomEFIS
available to help personally with the chip tuning?

Thanks,

Jim Davis
Fortson, GA
CF38690UO

Hi Kendall,

   Thanks for the congrats. I probably should point something out though.
I was extremely lucky when I purchased my TR6 to have been living so
close to and to have met Rick. He is extremely knowledgeable and
incredibly helpful and if not for him and his help I either would have
given up on owning a classic British sports car, I would be a lot
poorer, or my car would be in a lot worse shape.

   I just wanted everyone to know that this is his project. I was lucky
enough that I lived close by and had a TR6 that met his needs as a test
car for his system. I have learned a tremendous amount about my car and
about the TBI system from Rick and because of the support he has given
me I am more than willing to give him what assistance I can. I have no
financial stake in this project. I have not risked any money nor will I
see any profits. My benefit is that I have received the TBI system on
my car and I have agreed to give my honest assessment and opinions
about it. Trust me, if I thought it was junk, I would tell you and
everyone else in a heartbeat. What is really nice is that if it was
junk Rick would tell you the same thing.

   Again, thanks for the congrats but I do believe in credit where credit
is due so I couldn't take credit for something that wasn't my
responsibility.

  Cheers,

  Aaron

  Aaron Cropley
  71 TR6 (Throttle Body Injection!)
  http://www.triumphowners.com/108
  Topsham, Maine

  -----Original Message-----
  From: kendallsemail <mailkendall@...>
  To: TBIinjection@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 08:22:44 -0000
  Subject: [TBIinjection] Cool Stuff



  Hey Rick and Aaron, congrats on the new shop thats sounds like a fun
  time. I hope lots of people buy your stuff it sounds really great!

  Kendall

Hey Rick and Aaron, congrats on the new shop thats sounds like a fun
time. I hope lots of people buy your stuff it sounds really great!

Kendall

Hi again,

I forgot to add a link to my car on the web.  The website is part of
the triumph owners web site but it allows me to post pictures so
everyone can see.  Rick will be producing a much more detailed web
site in the near future but this should whet your appetite.

Aaron Cropley
Topsham, Maine
www.triumphowners.com/108

Hi,

Welcome everyone.  As the first person who has the pleasure of owning
a TR6 with Rick's TBI set-up I wanted to offer my willingness to
answer any questions anyone might have about the system.

The set-up is easy and the driving results are fantastic.

Cheers,

Aaron