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Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 22:25:14 -0500
To: Syncro@yahoogroups.com,VANAGON@...
Subject: Wheel Weight Data Observations
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From: Derek Drew <derekdrew@...>
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<html>
<font size=3D3>I decided to participate in the wheel weighing derby of a
few weeks ago, study recent wheel weighing posts, and collect the data in
one place. I found <br>
<br>
-- 18lbs regular factory alloy rim <br>
<br>
-- 21lbs the new "perfect 16" wheel" I found
(reference
<a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/message/8672" eudora=3D"aut=
ourl">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/message/8672</a>)<br>
<br>
This compares with recent weights posted to the list of <br>
<br>
-- 23lbs South Africa 15" steel wheel (according to John
Wessels)<br>
<br>
-- 23lbs South Africa 15" alloy wheel (according to Eric
Abercrombie)<br>
<br>
-- 28lbs Factory 16" Steel Wheel (according to Eric
Abercrombie)<br>
<br>
The weights above compare with a weight estimate of <br>
<br>
-- 35lbs for a Stockton steel wheel in 16" size
(<a href=3D"http://www.stocktonwheel.com/" eudora=3D"autourl">www.stocktonw=
heel.com</a>)
<br>
<br>
Meanwhile, just for the heck of it, I also weighed a BFGoodrich
27x8.50/14 tire and it came in at 26lbs. I called BFG and asked about
weights, and they said the tire is rated to weigh 29.64lbs. Mine was
worn, so this made sense. Interestingly, BFG said their 245/75/16 tire
weighed 46.6lbs, an increase in weight of 17 lbs on each wheel over the
27 x 8.50/14 size. That's a BIG increase. <br>
<br>
What does all this data show? Well, for one thing, I think that 35lbs for
a steel wheel is pushing it. You don't need all that extra weight on the
unsprung side of your springs with all these lighter weight options
around. For another, that old factory alloy 14" wheel is starting to
look pretty good weight-wise. <br>
<br>
Also, it shows that the tire can contribute *much* more weight than the
wheel. There is nothing much you can do about tire weight. 16" rims
could theoretically cut down slightly on the rubber by shaving some of
the sidewall off the tire, but this effect seems to have been lost in the
case of the 245/75/16. <br>
<br>
So from my own standpoint I am now looking at an increase in wheel/tire
weight of about 50%, as follows:<br>
<br>
--14" Alloys + 27x8.50/14 BFG: 18 + 29.64 =3D <b>47.64lbs</b> (Eric
Abercrombie reports his weighed 45lbs. so he must have had a slightly
worn tire too)<br>
<br>
--15" SA alloy with 215/75/15 Michelin LTX =3D <b>51lbs</b> (Eric
Abercrombie reports)<br>
<br>
--16" factory steel 5.5" rims plus BFGs =3D <b>60lbs </b>(Eric
Abercrombie reports)<br>
<br>
--16" Alloys + 245/75/16 BFG: 21 + 46.44 =3D <b>67.44lbs MY PLAN<br>
<br>
</b>--Stockton 16" steel wheels + 245/75/16 =3D est. <b>84lbs
</b>(including steel inner spacer)<br>
<br>
Note that in looking through the old posts, I felt that Eric Abercrombie
was our best wheel weigher (more weighing and more wheels). <br>
<br>
I have no way to guess right now what shock will be suitable for an
increase in wheel weight from 48lbs to 67lbs. Tim Smith warns us on this
about ill effects of extra unsprung weight upon the shock valving.
Possibly as Steve S. always says, it is time for us to investigate the M
or N Boge shock or some other odd thing from South Africa.<br>
<br>
As an aside, I measured the actual height of my 27x8.50/14 tires and the
actual height of my 245/75/16 tires and came up with 26.5" and
30.5" respectively, a difference of 4". The actual ground
clearance increase from the larger tire, then, (which is the point of the
whole thing) is exactly 2 inches. <br>
<br>
For a look at what the 16" wheel with 245/75 looks like, see
<a href=3D"http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/vanagon/images/wheelandtireonvanw=
ithhubcap.jpg" eudora=3D"autourl">http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/vanagon/im=
ages/wheelandtireonvanwithhubcap.</a><a href=3D"http://users.rcn.com/derekd=
rew/vanagon/images/wheelandtireonvanwithhubcap.jpg" eudora=3D"autourl">jpg<=
/a>.
That shows the wheel mounted on the front of my van so yes, it is
possible. For two more pictures, see
<a href=3D"http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/vanagon/images/perfectwheel16s.jp=
g" eudora=3D"autourl">http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/vanagon/images/perfect=
wheel16s.jpg</a>
and <a href=3D"http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/vanagon/images/perfect16wheel=
.jpg%A0" eudora=3D"autourl">http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/vanagon/images/p=
erfect16wheel.jpg </a> Information about how to get one of these 16" w=
heels will go out after I have had a chance to test fit them on a 2WD tomor=
row. After that, I will make a longer post regarding some of the technical =
issues with selecting a 16" wheel, comments about when to go with a 15=
" vs 16" wheel, and comments about suitable tire sizes. For those=
who have sent me wheel inquiries in the last two weeks regarding joining t=
he 16" wheel purchase or 15" wheels, I will be emailing you the i=
nformation in about a day or so and will provide technical information to t=
he list. If this subject interests you and you have not yet emailed me, do =
so now. <br>
<br>
<br>
</font><br>
<font size=3D3>________________________________________________________<br>
Derek Drew  =
; &n=
bsp; New York, NY & Washington, DC<br> derekdrew@...<x-tab> </x-tab>&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; 212-580-6486<br>
Email me for viscous couplings<br>
'90 Syncro Westfalia... <br>
...seen off-road at <br>
<a href=3D"http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/Syncro_Madness_Area.htm" eudora=
=3D"autourl">http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/Syncro_Madness_Area.htm</a><br>
Note: most valuable Vanagon sites on the planet (for owners) are:<br>
<a href=3D"http://gerry.vanagon.com/cgi-bin/=
wa.exe?S1=3Dvanagon" eudora=3D"autourl">http://gerry.vanagon.com/cgi-bin/wa=
.exe?S1=3Dvanagon</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://gerry.vanagon.com/files/" =
eudora=3D"autourl">http://gerry.vanagon.com/files/</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Syn=
cro" eudora=3D"autourl">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro</a> <br>
<a href=3D"http://www.vanagon.com/" eudora=
=3D"autourl">http://www.vanagon.com</a> <br>
<a href=3D"http://www.syncro.org=A0/" eudora=
=3D"autourl">http://www.syncro.org </a> <br>
My refrigerator article: <br>
<a href=3D"http://www.vanagon.com/info=
/articles/Refrigerator/Reefer_Madness.htm" eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.va=
nagon.com/info/articles/Refrigerator/Reefer_Madness.htm</a><br>
My article that shows how to deal with insurance companies: <br>
<a href=3D"http://gerry.vanagon.com/fi=
les/auto-insurance-madness.html" eudora=3D"autourl">http://gerry.vanagon.co=
m/files/auto-insurance-madness.html</a><br>
To view Wolfgang's incredibly informative wheel article<br>
<a href=3D"http://users.rcn.com/derekd=
rew/fitbigtiresonvanagon.htm" eudora=3D"autourl">http://users.rcn.com/derek=
drew/fitbigtiresonvanagon.htm</a> <br>
To view Tim Smith's incredibly useful gearing calculator<br>
<a href=3D"http://users.rcn.com/derekd=
rew/syncrotireandgearratios.xls" eudora=3D"autourl">http://users.rcn.com/de=
rekdrew/syncrotireandgearratios.xls</a> <br>
To view two articles about how to think about improving your gears at trans=
mission rebuild time<br>
<a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/gro=
up/Syncro/message/7207" eudora=3D"autourl">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sy=
ncro/message/7207</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/gro=
up/Syncro/message/7221" eudora=3D"autourl">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sy=
ncro/message/7221</a><br>
To view some 16" Trailing Arms that enable much larger tires see<br>
<a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/syn=
cro-org/files/Wheels,%20Tires%20%26%20Gearing/Wheel%20%26%20Tire%20Photos/1=
6_Inch_Trailing_Arm.jpg" eudora=3D"autourl">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/s=
yncro-org/files/Wheels%2C%20Tires%20%26%20Gearing/Wheel%20%26%20Tire%20Phot=
os/16_Inch_Trailing_Arm.jpg</a><br>
To view the only perfect 16" rim for T3 Vanagon Syncro see<br>
<a href=3D"http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/va=
nagon/images/perfectwheel16s.jpg" eudora=3D"autourl">http://users.rcn.com/d=
erekdrew/vanagon/images/perfectwheel16s.jpg</a> <br>
<a href=3D"http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/va=
nagon/images/perfect16wheel.jpg%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0" eudora=3D"autou=
rl">http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/vanagon/images/perfect16wheel.jpg &=
nbsp; </a> <br>
IMPORTANT NOTICE TO ALL SYNCRO OWNERS WHO DRIVE OFF THE ROAD:<br>
You only get to change your ring and pinions=
once every 10 or 20 years <br>
because that's how long the average sy=
ncro <br>
transmission goes before its next rebu=
ild. Start planning for 6.17 gears NOW!</font></html>
I decided to participate in the wheel weighing derby of a few weeks ago, study recent wheel weighing posts, and collect the data in one place. I found -- 18lbs...
Wow, Derek, more great info you have compiled. Wi this, the revs per mile for all the tires, and the gear spreadsheet, you have taken 80% of the work out of...
t 10:25 PM 12/8/01 -0500, Derek Drew wrote:
> I decided to participate in the wheel weighing derby of a few weeks ago, OK, 16" alloys at 21 lbs + 245/75/16 =...
Derek, Great information... lots of hard work and research! But you made one very good point which is very hard to ignore. It isn't the weight of the wheel, ...
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