On 4/9/09 10:09 AM, gce_sla wrote:
> Still, this whole principle makes me think that the Insight has a much less
> sophisticated logic control program than the Hybrid Synergy Drive. Would be
> interesting to read up on the differences.
"Sophisticated" is relative. Toyota's system and Honda's system are
fundamentally different. Google for any of the dozens, even hundreds, of
pages that explain the difference between IMA (aka Integrated Motor Assist,
Honda's system) and THS/HSD.
On 4/9/09 9:57 AM, gce_sla wrote:
>> Actually, the USB connector will also take a USB thumb drive loaded with
>> MP3s and play from that. Doesn't have to be a player; can be a $5 thumb
>> drive, and you get music. How cool is that? (Not just in the Insight, but in
>> other Honda models, like the Fit, too.)
>
> Linda, that is cool - but how is the playback controlled, then? I just assumed
> you had to have the music on a player so that you could use the menus on the
> player to select what you want to hear. How much control do you have for a
> thumb drive, and how does that work?
You control it from the steering wheel controls, as I understand it. I
didn't happen to have a loaded thumb drive in my pocket at the time. :-)
> Yes, it had the paddle shifters, but I didn't feel qualified to try them out
> in that short drive. I just asked the salesman (former Toyota salesman) how
> you can "shift" a CVT. He just said something about putting it in a lower
> range for higher RPMs or something. But I get the same thing automatically by
> just pressing down on the accelerator pedal.
It's different than that -- it's not the same as simply pressing harder on
the accelerator. The salesman was correct in that it shortens the range of
the CVT so that you get better response to requests for speed -- at the
expense of fuel economy, of course.
> But what mode is it in if it is not in Econ?
A mode for better performance -- the 2010 Prius will have a similar button,
besides the EV button, to give the Prius drivers similar choices.
> But that's not the point - the point is, hybrids normally get the better
> mileage figure for city, but the Insight gets in for highway. Must be some
> principle operating there...
"Normally" the higher city MPG is for Prius, not for "hybrids". My Classic
Insight has higher FE on the highway, and my HCH had FE that differed by
just one mile between city and highway. As I tried to explain, it's a
fundamental difference between the way the THS/HSD works and the way the IMA
works.
> So have you driven it by now Linda? What did you think?
I covet it. It's a great car -- tight, responsive, über quiet. Honda will
sell a lot of them at the price they're asking. I don't love it enough to
replace my Insight I, however. HCH and Prius-II are just too big of cars for
me; Insight II is more my style (small), but I'm not willing to get rid of a
paid-for car that's getting better than 50 MPG on my lifetime indicator,
that carries a 7-year/120K mile extended warranty on it, and won't rust
because it's aluminum. Getting rid of my Insight I makes zero sense; by the
time the 7 years or 120K miles are up, there will be even MORE choices for
hybrid buyers!
Only one bone to pick Linda “It won’t rust”, true but it’s semantics.
Aluminum is about as susceptible to “corrosion” as steel, and is in a hurry
to return to the oxide state we forced it out of.
gggGary
from Wisconsin
I covet it. It's a great car -- tight, responsive, über quiet. Honda will
sell a lot of them at the price they're asking. I don't love it enough to
replace my Insight I, however. HCH and Prius-II are just too big of cars for
me; Insight II is more my style (small), but I'm not willing to get rid of a
paid-for car that's getting better than 50 MPG on my lifetime indicator,
that carries a 7-year/120K mile extended warranty on it, and won't rust
because it's aluminum. Getting rid of my Insight I makes zero sense; by the
time the 7 years or 120K miles are up, there will be even MORE choices for
hybrid buyers!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
No arguing that the "energy transfer" system is "more sophisticated" in a
Prius. That has good and bad points. But in general it works in favor of
the Prius in my opinion. The biggest difference between the Prius and the
Insight II is the wheelbase. The Honda is 5" shorter in wheelbase. That's
why the back seat is so small.
gggGary
> Still, this whole principle makes me think that the Insight has a much
less
> sophisticated logic control program than the Hybrid Synergy Drive. Would
be
> interesting to read up on the differences.
"Sophisticated" is relative. Toyota's system and Honda's system are
fundamentally different. Google for any of the dozens, even hundreds, of
pages that explain the difference between IMA (aka Integrated Motor Assist,
Honda's system) and THS/HSD.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On 4/9/09 2:47 PM, yahoogroups@... wrote:
> The biggest difference between the Prius and the
> Insight II is the wheelbase.
I would argue the biggest difference is that they use completely different
hybrid systems. :) And yes, we cannot discount the size difference. The
Insight is a compact car, while the Prius is classed as a mid-size.
The new Insight will definitely fill a void for buyers who want a small
hybrid with a hatch.
~Linda
--- In Prius-2G@yahoogroups.com, "Bill G." <wwblues2@...> wrote:
> Twice, also, the scan gauge was nice when the car threw a MIL, to >be able to
look and see it was not serious, so I could complete a >trip.
Your car threw a... Mother In Law??? How did you achieve that?
Gary Eickmeier
On Apr 9, 2009, at 2:42 PM, yahoogroups@... wrote:
>
> Only one bone to pick Linda “It won’t rust”, true but it’s semantics.
> Aluminum is about as susceptible to “corrosion” as steel, and is in
> a hurry
> to return to the oxide state we forced it out of.
>
> gggGary
>
> __,_,___
Unless things have changed since I was a youngster, aluminum doesn't
"rust" in the normal use of the word. This is why it can be used
unpainted for things like aircraft. While the aluminum exposed to air
will oxidize easily, the new material (aluminum oxide, I suppose)
forms an airtight protective shell around the rest of the aluminum,
preventing any further rusting (and for that matter any noticeable
rusting at all).
-- Mark
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> I've thought of getting a Scan Guage, but while I know it will tell
>> me a lot of things about my vehicle, I've mostly decided that I
>> would rather pay attention to other things, since I don't NEED it
>> to drive
>> safely and efficiently.
>
> Last week, I was very happy to have had a Scan Gauge installed. It
> was my first drive to work after a collision repair. Everything was
> great, until mid-drive, heavy traffic on the interstate, and I got a
> beep and the Read Triangle of Death. A quick look at the ScanGauge,
> and I was able to see that the warning turned on at 248°F engine
> block temperature. When I slowed from 65 to 60, the temperature
> stayed below this threshold. A call to the dealer service
> department from the car ensued, and the outcome is that I was able
> to drive the car to the dealer, rather than have it towed, as long
> as I could monitor the temperature and keep it low. This suited me
> fine, because the towing company caused a lot of body damage when
> they brought the car to the dealer in the first place. Without the
> gauge, I would have needed a tow. Twice, also, the scan gauge was
> nice when the car threw a MIL, to be able to look and see it was not
> serious, so I could complete a trip.
Hopefully, in a year or so, we'll be able to buy a scanner with
bluetooth, and software for your iPhone will display things as you
choose.
In the meantime, where you folks buy your Scan Guages?
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jim Saklad mailto:jimdoc@...
> Only one bone to pick Linda “It won’t rust”, true but it’s semantics.
>
> Aluminum is about as susceptible to “corrosion” as steel, and is in
> a hurry to return to the oxide state we forced it out of.
True, but the chemistry of iron oxidation is such that it propagates
inward into the solid metal, and aluminum oxidation forms a relatively
impenetrable barrier that doesn't propagate under normal circumstances.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jim Saklad mailto:jimdoc@...
At 09:28 AM 4/9/2009, Mark Morris wrote:
>On Apr 8, 2009, at 10:17 PM, Linda wrote:
>
>> Yep, that's how it works. When you park, you turn the car off, and
>> engine
>> goes off. If you stop at a light or an intersection or even pull
>> into a
>> parking place, the car shuts off (if the conditions are right) and
>> stays off
>> as long as you keep your foot on the brake. When you shift to Park, it
>> assumes you're actually going to Park.
>
>This is one thing that seems less than ideal. For instance, when I'm
>sitting for 15 minutes in line to pick up my child from school, in
>100º F weather, would I have to be in D with the brake pressed to get
>A/C without running the engine continuously?
I'll have to wait for 100 degree weather to check, but as the A/C compressor is
not dependent on the ICE (it has its own electric motor), I don't believe so.
Just as long as the car is in READY status, I am pretty sure the A/C works.
--
Regards, Pete
pgranzeau@...
At 09:53 AM 4/9/2009, Kevin Swiger wrote:
>Not necessarily. Assuming your start and end points are at the same elevation,
you'll use energy, either from the traction battery or the ICE, to cover the
distance between the points if you're on flat terrain. On hilly terrain, you'll
use energy, again from either the traction battery, or the ICE, going uphill,
and a small amount going down the other side. Gravity will assist, and,
providing you don't have to stop at the bottom of the hill, inertia will take
you partway up the next hill before you need to start drawing significant power
again.
>
>There's a formula for determining how much power will be gained, I remember
having used it in a project in a programming class a couple of decades back.
Obviously, it was dealing strictly with an ICE. I don't know if anybody has
updated it for dealing with a Prius. If you'd like, I'll look through my old
printouts, and see if I still have the program with that formula in it.
I will defer to your better knowledge of the forces involved. I am reminded of
Click and Clack (the Tappet Brothers) and their weekly puzzles. Once they asked
for an explanation why a railroad locomotive could pull a 100 car train through
very hilly country, but was unable to pull a 50 car train through the same
terrain. The explanation was that the hills were quite short, and with the 100
car train, many cars were still coming down the last hill while the locomotive
started up the next on, whereas that wasn't true with a 50 car train.
--
Regards, Pete
pgranzeau@...
On 4/9/09 5:46 PM, Jim Saklad wrote:
> In the meantime, where you folks buy your Scan Guages?
There's usually special event pricing if you attend Hybridfest Green Drive
Expo, for one. PriusChat.com often has a group buy going on, for another.
Sometimes CleanMPG does, too.
------ Forwarded Message
From: y_groups_team <y_groups_team@...>
Reply-To: <moderatorcentral-owner@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 01:19:58 +0000
To: <moderatorcentral@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [moderatorcentral] A new look for Groups Search
If you've searched for a group today you may have noticed that things look a
bit different. Today, we introduced the first phase of our new groups search
solution which will help improve the "searchability" of groups. To try it
yourself, just visit http://groups.yahoo.com and search for a group in the
"Find a Group" search box.
This recent redesign was the result of feedback from users like you, and is
the first step in a series of changes to search that will help you find the
groups that are the most relevant and right for you.
We've added features like: new sorting options, updated group information,
and quick links that enable you to "Join" a group, right from the search
page.
You can find a full walk-through of all the new features on the Yahoo!
Groups blog (Post found here:
http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/2009/04/09/a-new-look-for-groups-search/).
All of these features are currently available in all Yahoo! Groups searches
(however, they're not currently available when you're browsing a group), so
be sure to give them a try and let us know what you think by leaving a
comment on the blog! (http://www.ygroupsblog.com) We'll be sure to keep you
updated on additional updates to search as they become available.
Melissa Daniels
Yahoo! Community Manager
--- In Prius-2G@yahoogroups.com, "Bill G." <wwblues2@...> wrote:
>
> --- In Prius-2G@yahoogroups.com, "gce_sla" <geickmei@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Your car threw a... Mother In Law??? How did you achieve that?
> >
> > Gary Eickmeier
> >
>
> Gary, first you have to get a special "Mother In Law" seat:
> http://tinyurl.com/c8h34d
>
> Then you need to use a proper seat belt:
> http://tinyurl.com/cv7k3g
>
> Works best on the Interstate.
I've already got all that - I just haven't been able to figure out how to
innocently lose her on the interstate.
Will the 3G have an MIL button perhaps?
Gary Eickmeier
On Apr 10, 2009, at 8:15 AM, gce_sla wrote:
>> Gary, first you have to get a special "Mother In Law" seat:
>> http://tinyurl.com/c8h34d
>>
>> Then you need to use a proper seat belt:
>> http://tinyurl.com/cv7k3g
>>
>> Works best on the Interstate.
>
> I've already got all that - I just haven't been able to figure out
> how to innocently lose her on the interstate.
>
> Will the 3G have an MIL button perhaps?
A lot depends on whether she's just a plain MIL or MILILF.
--
"The optimist proclaims that this is the best of all possible worlds ;
and the pessimist fears this is true." --James Branch Cabell
The car is about a month old and my wife said there was an odor in the car. I
opened up the air filter behind the storage box and a dead mouse and several
babies were nesting on the air filter.
The partially eaten air filter was the only thing preventing the mice from
hitting the fan. I cleaned out the nest, vacuumed the compartment and wiped out
any "dirt" with a cotton swap wet with Green Works Natural by Clorox.
A couple of days ago my wife was nauseous and not feeling good. I'm sure it was
due to the dead mouse and her babies in her new Prius air system.
Aaron
'09 Prius
'02 Prius
--- In Prius-2G@yahoogroups.com, "docaaron1" <docaaron1@...> wrote:
>
> The car is about a month old and my wife said there was an odor in the car. I
opened up the air filter behind the storage box and a dead mouse and several
babies were nesting on the air filter.
I get what you're saying, that you have a mouse problem that you're not sure
you're rid of yet. But I am struggling with "storage box." Do you mean glovebox?
Is it accessible from the interior? Sorry, haven't looked in my manual yet, just
read this.
But do you have access to the entire path that the mice could have gotten into?
Hope the new filter takes care of it.
Gary Eickmeier
I imagine the mice are coming from the field behind our house. Builders are
starting to build houses back there and clearing away some trees and growth.
Before they started to clear away the land it was an open field. Before that it
was a very small horse farm. I remember about ten years ago we had mice
getting into our house. We even had a cat back then who had no desire to chase
indoor mice. I found the spot in the attic where a small bit of the screen that
covered the attic vent, had come loose. I nailed it back down and never saw
another mouse in the house. It was that simple.
Yes the filter is the one behind the "glove" box. I wasn't sure if they still
used that term so I called it a storage box. What tipped me off to looking at
the cabin air filter first, was when I had my '02 Prius in for an oil change a
couple of weeks ago. They said they checked the air filters both engine and
cabin. The guy came out and said they found a nest of some kind on my cabin air
filter. They said they cleaned it out but I should replace the air filter. I
wasn't going have them do it for $62, I told them I would do it myself.
So when my wife said she smelled some kind odor in the new Prius I thought of
what the service guy told me about my '02 cabin air filter. Plus the new Prius
was now parked where my old Prius was parked, top of the driveway closest to the
back yard and closest to the open field.
I have now replaced both car's air filters. Since Toyota was closed at the time
I rushed out to Pep Boys and bought a Purolator air filter for the '09 Prius. I
wanted to get a new filter ASAP so mice would be blocked from getting into the
air system fan and beyond since I had to throw away the original filter. The
next day I bought a new Toyota filter for my '02 Prius. Both filters cost about
$30 each and were very easy to replace. The '09 glove box has a damper on it
which I didn't know about until it "popped" off. Luckily it didn't break but
scared me when I heard the popping noise.
If you Google "mice in air filter" or something close to that you get stories
mostly about Toyotas with this problem, i.e. Camry, Yaris, Matrix, Prius etc.
I'm not talking about mice in the car or chewing wires under the hood. I'm
talking about mice in the car's ventilation system. Mice can carry and transmit
diseases such as the Hantavirus. I do think Toyota should address this problem
with some kind of screening without gaps on the sides.
Aaron
'02 Prius
'09 Prius
--- In Prius-2G@yahoogroups.com, "gce_sla" <geickmei@...> wrote:
> OK, so, I took it in and they replaced the HID bulb on warranty. Hope that is
all it was. Will observe for the next few days.
Left one went out almost immediately after right one (passenger side) (well,
passenger side in the States) went out. Going over there now to get that one
replaced.
Losing confidence in the whole HID concept. Wonder if they can be replaced with
the new LED ones.
GAry Eickmeier
--- In Prius-2G@yahoogroups.com, "gce_sla" <geickmei@...> wrote:
> Left one went out almost immediately after right one (passenger side) (well,
passenger side in the States) went out. Going over there now to get that one
replaced.
>
> Losing confidence in the whole HID concept. Wonder if they can be replaced
with the new LED ones.
They replaced both the bulb and the "computer." They say there is a little
computer for each headlight, and a TSB out on them on my car. They probably
replaced it on the other side as well.
A computer for headlights? I think I was born too late.
Gary Eickmeier
You're inspiring me to look at my cabin air filter system. I don't have mice,
but I don't want roaches or anything else in there, either. My wife parks
underneath oak trees at work, and they seem to attract pests.
Gary Eickmeier
If you search Priuschat, there are postings about how to block off the
holes for venting that are under the hood, that should keep the mice
from getting in there in the first place. Should cost you less than $10
in materials and a couple of hours if you have the right tools.
http://priuschat.com/forums/knowledge-base-articles-discussion/51005-mouseproofi\
ng-prius.html
is a good one. You can use expanded Aluminum gutter mesh rather than
galvanized hardware cloth, it's easier to trim and bend to size, and
won't rust on the cut ends.
docaaron1 wrote:
> If you Google "mice in air filter" or something close to that you get stories
mostly about Toyotas with this problem, i.e. Camry, Yaris, Matrix, Prius etc.
I'm not talking about mice in the car or chewing wires under the hood. I'm
talking about mice in the car's ventilation system. Mice can carry and transmit
diseases such as the Hantavirus. I do think Toyota should address this problem
with some kind of screening without gaps on the sides.
>
--
Tom Stangl
* http://www.vfaq.net/
* Prius Visual FAQ Home
* 04 Prius AM #7
* 06 Prius NL #7
* http://www.vfaq.com/
* DSM Visual FAQ home
* 90 Talon AWD Turbo
They probably mean the HID ballast, which is mounted to the bottom of
the headlight. It takes the 12V car power and boosts it up to the kV
needed for the HID bulb (including a slightly higher voltage at startup
to strike the arc).
gce_sla wrote:
> They replaced both the bulb and the "computer." They say there is a little
computer for each headlight, and a TSB out on them on my car. They probably
replaced it on the other side as well.
>
> A computer for headlights? I think I was born too late.
>
--
Tom Stangl
* http://www.vfaq.net/
* Prius Visual FAQ Home
* 04 Prius AM #7
* 06 Prius NL #7
* http://www.vfaq.com/
* DSM Visual FAQ home
* 90 Talon AWD Turbo
--- In Prius-2G@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Stangl, VFAQman" <talonts@...> wrote:
>
> They probably mean the HID ballast, which is mounted to the bottom of
> the headlight. It takes the 12V car power and boosts it up to the kV
> needed for the HID bulb (including a slightly higher voltage at startup
> to strike the arc).
Kind of like the ballast on a fluorescent? Makes sense. Mine were sometimes
coming on dim, sometimes full, sometimes not at all. My wife has me in the habit
of using them as daytime driving lights. Is that good, bad, or indifferent? Does
it use too much 12V?
Gary Eickmeier
Yes, very similar to FLs.
I use them all the time, and yes, it will shorten the life of the bulbs,
obviously, and have a TINY effect on mpg. The HIDs only pull 35W each,
so they actually use less power than the foglights or the standard
headlights.
I had to replace the HID bulbs on my 06 a few months back, as the
passenger bulb was flaming out more and more often. I bought some 4300K
D4Rs from Ebay for $70 shipped for the pair. One of the new bulbs acted
up right out of the box, and started failing within a few weeks. I
bought from the Ebay seller because he offered a 1 yr warranty. I
mailed the bulb back, and received the replacement soon after. Now I
just need to find the time to get it installed in place of the one
original bulb that was still good that I kept as a backup.
My wife's 04 has had no problems with the HIDs, luckily, but if so, I'll
hit up Ebay for replacements.
gce_sla wrote:
> --- In Prius-2G@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Stangl, VFAQman" <talonts@...> wrote:
>
>> They probably mean the HID ballast, which is mounted to the bottom of
>> the headlight. It takes the 12V car power and boosts it up to the kV
>> needed for the HID bulb (including a slightly higher voltage at startup
>> to strike the arc).
>>
>
> Kind of like the ballast on a fluorescent? Makes sense. Mine were sometimes
coming on dim, sometimes full, sometimes not at all. My wife has me in the habit
of using them as daytime driving lights. Is that good, bad, or indifferent? Does
it use too much 12V?
>
--
Tom Stangl
* http://www.vfaq.net/
* Prius Visual FAQ Home
* 04 Prius AM #7
* 06 Prius NL #7
* http://www.vfaq.com/
* DSM Visual FAQ home
* 90 Talon AWD Turbo
Thanks for the link but did you ever see the TV commercial with the doctor
giving the patient surgery directions over the phone? The patient while holding
a kitchen knife then says, "shouldn't you be doing this?"
I'm not going to take apart a brand new car looking to close holes or gaps where
mice may get in. Shouldn't Toyota be doing this?
Aaron
'02 Prius
'09 Prius
Unless they meant the "computer" for re-leveling the headlights when
you have a heavier load in the rear.
On Apr 13, 2009, at 13:48 , Tom Stangl, VFAQman wrote:
> They probably mean the HID ballast, which is mounted to the bottom of
> the headlight.
>
> gce_sla wrote:
>> They replaced both the bulb and the "computer." They say there is a
>> little computer for each headlight, and a TSB out on them on my
>> car. They probably replaced it on the other side as well.
>>
>> A computer for headlights? I think I was born too late.
>>
ALL cars have some way into the vent systems, it's just a matter of *how
easy* it is to get in there. The number of people with mouse problems
is very small compared to the # of Prius out there.
I'm sure you could ask your Toyota dealer to do it. Don't be surprised
if they say it will cost you several hundred dollars. You can do it
yourself in less than an hour with basic hand tools, and do it for $10
in supplies.
It's up to you to decide.
docaaron1 wrote:
> Thanks for the link but did you ever see the TV commercial with the doctor
giving the patient surgery directions over the phone? The patient while holding
a kitchen knife then says, "shouldn't you be doing this?"
>
> I'm not going to take apart a brand new car looking to close holes or gaps
where mice may get in. Shouldn't Toyota be doing this?
>
--
Tom Stangl
* http://www.vfaq.net/
* Prius Visual FAQ Home
* 04 Prius AM #7
* 06 Prius NL #7
* http://www.vfaq.com/
* DSM Visual FAQ home
* 90 Talon AWD Turbo
Except that there is only *one* of those, and they were talking about
replacing the "computers" on *each* headlight.
Paul Lawler wrote:
> Unless they meant the "computer" for re-leveling the headlights when
> you have a heavier load in the rear.
>
> On Apr 13, 2009, at 13:48 , Tom Stangl, VFAQman wrote:
>
>
>> They probably mean the HID ballast, which is mounted to the bottom of
>> the headlight.
>>
>> gce_sla wrote:
>>
>>> They replaced both the bulb and the "computer." They say there is a
>>> little computer for each headlight, and a TSB out on them on my
>>> car. They probably replaced it on the other side as well.
>>>
>>> A computer for headlights? I think I was born too late.
>>>
--
Tom Stangl
* http://www.vfaq.net/
* Prius Visual FAQ Home
* 04 Prius AM #7
* 06 Prius NL #7
* http://www.vfaq.com/
* DSM Visual FAQ home
* 90 Talon AWD Turbo
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