The reason the VW trans/diff was set up to accept being flopped was ,when
used in a transporter they used a gear reduction box on the ends of the
axels and they ran backwards.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Damian" <damiang@...>
To: <Locost_North_America@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 6:41 AM
Subject: RE: [Locost_North_America] Re: irs for locost


> No need to flop the ring and pinion. I'll explain why the VWs do that
> later.
>
>
>
> In a 4x4 the front diff is configured exactly the same as the rear re ring
> and pinion setup. Because the front drive shaft spins the same direction
> as
> the rear one and the front diff has been turned backwards it sees the
> front
> drive shaft as going backwards in relation to itself. The front diff is
> effectively being spun in reverse, which is a good thing as it faces
> backwards at the front so this makes it go forward. The double backwards =
> forwards.
>
>
>
> The reverse rotation diffs being spoken of have a high pinion, which is
> still located on the same side of the crown wheel as a normal diff so will
> work just the same. Because a diff being turned backwards is weaker, the
> high pinion diffs return the relationship of the pinion and crownwheel
> back
> to optimum in a front mounted diff. The high pinion diffs can be used fine
> in the rear of a 4x4, and are used in the rear for extra ground clearance.
>
>
>
>
>
> The VW is not comparing apples to apples and is unique for a few reasons.
> Firstly the drive shaft direction compared to the diff does not change
> like
> in a 4x4 when you turn it around for mid engine use in a sandrail etc
> because your turning them both around, and not just the diff as in a 4x4.
> This means a standard VW gearbox will have 4 reverse gears and one forward
> gear when you turn the engine/gearbox around and mid mount it in a
> sandrail.
> Also, and this is the important bit, the VW diff does not have an offset
> pinion like nearly every other diff. This is the reason you can flop the
> ring and pinion onto the other . The Crown wheel is set at the same
> centerline as the pinion, so thus you can put it either side. This way
> you
> get your 4 forwards gears and one reverse. You don't need to flop the S10
> diff as it is already setup to work in the rear. Just turning it around so
> the yoke faces forward is all that needs to be done.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Damian
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Locost_North_America@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Locost_North_America@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave Loll
> Sent: Sunday, 11 January 2009 4:29 AM
> To: Locost_North_America@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Locost_North_America] Re: irs for locost
>
>
>
> OK guys I have a question. Can the ring and pinion be flopped in a Chevy
> S10? I am having thoughts of trying to run the front end of an S10 under
> the
>
> rear so I can have 4 wheel drive and steering. The only one I have ever
> flopped was a VW and that worked well.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Parrish" <mike@accuratepower.
> <mailto:mike%40accuratepower.com> com>
> To: <Locost_North_ <mailto:Locost_North_America%40yahoogroups.com>
> America@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 8:21 PM
> Subject: [Locost_North_America] Re: irs for locost
>
>> On 4x4's that have the same diffs F & R (IE Samurai) you can swap
>> them, rotate the same way. A popular Samurai swap is to put a rear
>> carrier in the front and 26 spline (rather than the 22's usually in
>> the front) axles for more strength. When you hear "reverse rotation"
>> regarding 4x4 fronts, it relates to them being "hi-pinion". Some
>> (older F150 D44 fronts for one example) had the pinions above the axle
>> center for better front driveline angle. Without a "reverse rotation"
>> ring and pinion, the wheels would have gone around backward. BTW F & R
>> driveshafts go around the same way (looking from the same end, F or
>> R). There are some "trail rigs" that have run the rears upside down
>> (W/O reverse rotation gear sets) to allow more lift, but the thrust
>> and oiling issues shorten their lives. OK for a "trail rig". You
>> could use a 4x4 IFS in the rear of a car (if you were so motivated),
>> no rotation issues. MIKE
>>
>> --- In Locost_North_ <mailto:Locost_North_America%40yahoogroups.com>
> America@yahoogroups.com, Keith Tanner <keith@...>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> They might be different, but do they rotate in different directions?
>>>
>>> Keith
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Wragie <wragie@...> wrote:
>>> > I didn't catch this was to try and get a Honda working but I can
>> tell you
>>> > on my Bronco the front and rear diffs are different. The front
>> half shafts
>>> > are covered with some pretty good chunks of steel but I think
>> those come
>>> > off. It's a Dana something or other ;-]
>>> >
>>> > Dave
>>> >
>>> > At 02:56 PM 09/01/2009, you wrote:
>>> >>You're assuming the front driveshaft is turning the same way as the
>>> >>rear driveshaft. Is that a valid assumption? I'm not going to go crawl
>>> >>under my Toyota, Jeep or Land Rover to check :) I'm pretty sure the
>>> >>Rover uses the same diff front and rear though.
>>> >>
>>> >>Keith
>>> >>
>>> >>On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 1:55 PM, PAUL TEGLER <ptegler@...> wrote:
>>> >> > Think of it this way....if while the driveshaft is rotating and
>> driving
>>> >> > the
>>> >> > wheels, and you rotate the axle so the driveshaft is now in
>> front of the
>>> >> > diff...the drive shaft is now rotating the opposite direction. The
>>> >> > difference also is the drive angle of the pinion to the ring.
>> The slight
>>> >> > offset of the pinion contact and thrust vectors will not be the
>>> >> same and the
>>> >> > pinion would now be offset to the top of the diff rather than
>> nearer the
>>> >> > bottom.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Paul Tegler
>>> >> > ptegler@...
>>> >> > www.teglerizer.com
>>> >> >
>>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> > From: "Chris Fiaccone" <chris.fiaccone@...>
>>> >> > To: <Locost_North_ <mailto:Locost_North_America%40yahoogroups.com>
> America@yahoogroups.com>
>>> >> > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 2:50 PM
>>> >> > Subject: Re: [Locost_North_America] Re: irs for locost
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> "Front wheel Ring&Pinions on 4X4's are cut the same as RWD
>>> >> >> Ring&Pinions, think about it, the Diff is turned around; thus the
>>> >> >> axles have to rotate opposite, with the same rotation of the
>> pinion.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Roger"
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Yeah, but the driveshaft is in front of the diff. Either way,
>> I think
>>> >> >> he
>>> >> >> should give it a go and let us know the results.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> --Chris
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
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>>> >> >
>>> >>
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>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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