No need to flop the ring and pinion. I'll explain why the VWs do that later.



In a 4x4 the front diff is configured exactly the same as the rear re ring
and pinion setup. Because the front drive shaft spins the same direction as
the rear one and the front diff has been turned backwards it sees the front
drive shaft as going backwards in relation to itself. The front diff is
effectively being spun in reverse, which is a good thing as it faces
backwards at the front so this makes it go forward. The double backwards =
forwards.



The reverse rotation diffs being spoken of have a high pinion, which is
still located on the same side of the crown wheel as a normal diff so will
work just the same. Because a diff being turned backwards is weaker, the
high pinion diffs return the relationship of the pinion and crownwheel back
to optimum in a front mounted diff. The high pinion diffs can be used fine
in the rear of a 4x4, and are used in the rear for extra ground clearance.





The VW is not comparing apples to apples and is unique for a few reasons.
Firstly the drive shaft direction compared to the diff does not change like
in a 4x4 when you turn it around for mid engine use in a sandrail etc
because your turning them both around, and not just the diff as in a 4x4.
This means a standard VW gearbox will have 4 reverse gears and one forward
gear when you turn the engine/gearbox around and mid mount it in a sandrail.
Also, and this is the important bit, the VW diff does not have an offset
pinion like nearly every other diff. This is the reason you can flop the
ring and pinion onto the other . The Crown wheel is set at the same
centerline as the pinion, so thus you can put it either side. This way you
get your 4 forwards gears and one reverse. You don't need to flop the S10
diff as it is already setup to work in the rear. Just turning it around so
the yoke faces forward is all that needs to be done.



Cheers

Damian







_____

From: Locost_North_America@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Locost_North_America@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave Loll
Sent: Sunday, 11 January 2009 4:29 AM
To: Locost_North_America@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Locost_North_America] Re: irs for locost



OK guys I have a question. Can the ring and pinion be flopped in a Chevy
S10? I am having thoughts of trying to run the front end of an S10 under the

rear so I can have 4 wheel drive and steering. The only one I have ever
flopped was a VW and that worked well.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Parrish" <mike@accuratepower.
<mailto:mike%40accuratepower.com> com>
To: <Locost_North_ <mailto:Locost_North_America%40yahoogroups.com>
America@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 8:21 PM
Subject: [Locost_North_America] Re: irs for locost

> On 4x4's that have the same diffs F & R (IE Samurai) you can swap
> them, rotate the same way. A popular Samurai swap is to put a rear
> carrier in the front and 26 spline (rather than the 22's usually in
> the front) axles for more strength. When you hear "reverse rotation"
> regarding 4x4 fronts, it relates to them being "hi-pinion". Some
> (older F150 D44 fronts for one example) had the pinions above the axle
> center for better front driveline angle. Without a "reverse rotation"
> ring and pinion, the wheels would have gone around backward. BTW F & R
> driveshafts go around the same way (looking from the same end, F or
> R). There are some "trail rigs" that have run the rears upside down
> (W/O reverse rotation gear sets) to allow more lift, but the thrust
> and oiling issues shorten their lives. OK for a "trail rig". You
> could use a 4x4 IFS in the rear of a car (if you were so motivated),
> no rotation issues. MIKE
>
> --- In Locost_North_ <mailto:Locost_North_America%40yahoogroups.com>
America@yahoogroups.com, Keith Tanner <keith@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> They might be different, but do they rotate in different directions?
>>
>> Keith
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Wragie <wragie@...> wrote:
>> > I didn't catch this was to try and get a Honda working but I can
> tell you
>> > on my Bronco the front and rear diffs are different. The front
> half shafts
>> > are covered with some pretty good chunks of steel but I think
> those come
>> > off. It's a Dana something or other ;-]
>> >
>> > Dave
>> >
>> > At 02:56 PM 09/01/2009, you wrote:
>> >>You're assuming the front driveshaft is turning the same way as the
>> >>rear driveshaft. Is that a valid assumption? I'm not going to go crawl
>> >>under my Toyota, Jeep or Land Rover to check :) I'm pretty sure the
>> >>Rover uses the same diff front and rear though.
>> >>
>> >>Keith
>> >>
>> >>On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 1:55 PM, PAUL TEGLER <ptegler@...> wrote:
>> >> > Think of it this way....if while the driveshaft is rotating and
> driving
>> >> > the
>> >> > wheels, and you rotate the axle so the driveshaft is now in
> front of the
>> >> > diff...the drive shaft is now rotating the opposite direction. The
>> >> > difference also is the drive angle of the pinion to the ring.
> The slight
>> >> > offset of the pinion contact and thrust vectors will not be the
>> >> same and the
>> >> > pinion would now be offset to the top of the diff rather than
> nearer the
>> >> > bottom.
>> >> >
>> >> > Paul Tegler
>> >> > ptegler@...
>> >> > www.teglerizer.com
>> >> >
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: "Chris Fiaccone" <chris.fiaccone@...>
>> >> > To: <Locost_North_ <mailto:Locost_North_America%40yahoogroups.com>
America@yahoogroups.com>
>> >> > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 2:50 PM
>> >> > Subject: Re: [Locost_North_America] Re: irs for locost
>> >> >
>> >> >> "Front wheel Ring&Pinions on 4X4's are cut the same as RWD
>> >> >> Ring&Pinions, think about it, the Diff is turned around; thus the
>> >> >> axles have to rotate opposite, with the same rotation of the
> pinion.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Roger"
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Yeah, but the driveshaft is in front of the diff. Either way,
> I think
>> >> >> he
>> >> >> should give it a go and let us know the results.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --Chris
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ------------------------------------
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >>Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>





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