My prediction: GM will lease the batteries, so you can't extract them, sell them and replace them with lead-acid; the batteries will be protected by the engine coming on during high torque; and they will be produced, if at all, in very limited quantities -- GM has already stated that this is the case, no mass production through 2014.

Doug

--- On Fri, 7/11/08, theoldcars@... <theoldcars@...> wrote:

From: theoldcars@... <theoldcars@...>
Subject: Re: [Chevy-Volt] Re: Missed the mark
To: Chevy-Volt@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, July 11, 2008, 9:50 AM

Stephen may be getting close to 50K. His Solectria has been on the road for three years. He has several EVs so he may not be racking up the miles. Only his Valance powered Solectria has 100 miles of range. The last time I talked to him it did not have what one would call significant battery degradation. I would compare Valance to Ovonic and A123 is like Panasonic when the NiMH first went into production vehicles. I will follow up with Stephen and see how he is doing.

 

You can find out bench testing cycling much faster than in a vehicle. There is no doubt this has been done and GM has accepted the results. I believe GM has stopped saying they are waiting on batteries. That excuse does not exist anymore. So much smoke and mirrors who knows what GM is really going to do. I personally think they are not putting enough effort into what is their salvation.

 

Don

 

In a message dated 7/11/2008 5:02:06 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, live_oil_free@ yahoo.com writes:

These are all very impressive and wonderful.   But the claim is that no EV has driven more than 50K miles on Lithium without significant battery degradation.   Any example to refute this claim?   Doug   --- On Fri, 7/11/08, theoldcars@aol. com <theoldcars@aol. com> wrote: From: theoldcars@aol. com <theoldcars@aol. com> Subject: Re: [Chevy-Volt] Re: Missed the mark To: Chevy-Volt@yahoogro ups.com Date: Friday, July 11, 2008, 2:05 AM Hello Doug   Here is Gary's   http://www.evalbum. com/461   http://ev.whitecape .org/insight/ A123/   Here is Bob's   http://www.evdrive. com   Here is Stephen's he is running Valance for three or four years. Valance though are not as good as A123. The Valance advantage is they come with a BMS built in. They are also very costly and cycle life is not as high as the A123.   http://www.evalbum. com/602   These are the few I know of that are posting their EVs. Two are in the same area I live.   There are others in the works but I am not sure they want me to give out what there up to or they will get swamped in emails and phone calls.   There is no doubt the A123 battery will out perform and out last any NiMH. The problem is cost. A RAV4 size pack would be 50,000 dollars. Calendar life could be an issue as a pack that size would go well over what most people drive in 20 years.   The best performing battery for the money was the NiMH. I believe I posted on the RAV4 list the specs on the Ovonics they no longer will sell. Ovonics have increased the cycle life 300%   In the long run the A123 will cost less even with the current high cost. When the A123 is mass produced it will be the battery to have until something else come along.   Don   In a message dated 7/8/2008 10:03:08 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, live_oil_free@ yahoo.com writes: Can you cite the examples of A123 vatteries used in "...FULL SIZED PURE EVS..."? (emphasis added) The issue is not whether they work, the issue is how long they last, and how economical. Those are big hills to climb. Please cite any full sized EVs that use A123? I'm very interested. Doug --- In Chevy-Volt@yahoogro ups.com, theoldcars@. .. wrote: > > I have to disagree the concept is good. The batteries are even better. > > The new A123 batteries are outstanding. They are the real deal. I know of > several already putting these to in full size pure EVs > > The RC guys have be punishing the small cells beyond what anyone thought was > possible. 70 Amps from about a size C battery that does not burn up is huge. > > Don Blazer

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