From: craigdge <craigdge@...>
Subject: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What does it cost to change the leopard's spots?
To: CR250@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 10:32 PM

On the flip side, motorcycles can be a huge selling point too. ;-)

One of the main reasons I met my girlfriend was through my bike. Of
course I hadn't quite gotten all the bugs worked out on my '74 Suzuki.
The ignition wire was bad and it would rattle just loose enough from
the coil that it could sometimes intermittently die if you went over a
bump. Made for an interesting first date since I hadn't discovered
said bug until we got about 15 miles away from town (quite a ride on
the little 125 two up).

She's a good girl - puts up with my $hit anyway. :-D

--- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, Frank Zee <mxbonz@...> wrote:
>
> I think the overall lesson here is: "To thyne own self be true"
>
> I've lost many a girlfriend over the past couple of decades because
I race....One that I know of is now a widow....Not everyone gets
killed or paralyzed racing so if motorcycles are a reason for a
breakup..... well that's just a convienient excuse....If the bike
wasn't in the picture thare would be some other control issue in it's
place.
>
> My current girlfriend is 12 younger than I am, a former runway model
and loves me for who I am/what I do.....It can't be for money that's
for sure!
>
> Check this site out: www.superhunky. com There you will witness
one of my earliest inspirations at his best......backyard engineering
extrordinnaire. ...the demise of Maico....awesome stuff.
>
> I was in the very moto at Mt Morris, Pa (Open A Sat Amateur day
1983.) that Dave Scott was paralyzed in from an exploded Maico wheel
which was a result of internal sabotage at the factory. I had broken
my collarbone on the same lap while running 8th another guy separated
his shoulder and I had to get a ride to Monongahelia General in the
front seat of Dave Coomb's brother in law's pickup truck since my
injury in that moto was the minor one...When we got back from the
weekend, my girlfriend at the time dumped me.....good riddance!
>
> Frank Z MX BONZ www.mxbonz.com
>
> --- On Sat, 1/10/09, craigdge <craigdge@.. .> wrote:
>
> From: craigdge <craigdge@.. .>
> Subject: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What does it cost to
change the leopard's spots?
> To: CR250@yahoogroups. com
> Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 8:24 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I just got done welding a fence repair job on an 80 acre ranch.
> Welding is objectively speaking an awful job, but I love it.
>
> Sticking two pieces of metal together is easy. Making them stick
> together and stay stuck is the trick.
>
> I consider myself very lucky to be going out with a girl who loves
> motorcycles. Of course I ride so often in the summer months in
> Flagstaff on my little TS 125 that it would be hard to actually fall
> head over heels for somebody before they realized how important riding
> is for me. :-D
>
> With serious considerations of marriage down the road my '89 CR 250
> will probably be my last motorcycle project bike for a fair while. I
> might do one more project with my girlfriend, or pass my TS 125 along
> in order to find a TC 125 or 185 with the dual range transmission. ..
> That would be cool.
>
> --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, "Toby Opferman" <yahoo@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Seen this?
> >
> > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=PASEG5xLlRo
> > <http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=PASEG5xLlRo>
> >
> > I had a guy at work (guy with a PHd) and I said welders make good
money
> > and he didn't believe it. He said for putting two pieces of metal
> > together, how hard can that be? It's not very hard if you don't want
> > them to be together for very long! I was thinking he was kind of
> > belitting the skill and I know it's not an easy thing to do. There's
> > different types of welders, rods, metals and metals like magnesium or
> > alumn can be very hard to weld cause you can just melt them.
> >
> > So that's another thing there's people out there who think making
things
> > with your hands is easy but have never done it. Ever watch one of
those
> > discovery channel shows like I do your job or whatever? I mean he's
> > gone and done things like run a machine at a shipping yard or
those guys
> > who do forestry and those machines are pretty hard to operate
> > efficently. Sure you can do and fumble around but you won't put out
> > anywhere near how much someone who's been skilled in that machine for
> > many years.
> >
> > The other thing is that global news has affected everyone's minds. I
> > mean you hear that someone kidnapped a child in South Africa, you lock
> > your child up! Because before you would only know what was going on in
> > your local community and most likely no much to worry about, but then
> > these very rare events statistically speaking happen half way
around the
> > world and it seems like it's common place and you have to go run and
> > hide and not go out of your house. There's a show called BULLSHIT by
> > Penn and Teller and this was on one of their episodes. That's a pretty
> > good show, they go through and bust a lot of what you talk about in
> > today's society. Here's a clip from one of thier shows if you've never
> > seen it:
> >
> > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=blRCh-EDuDs& feature=related
> > <http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=blRCh-EDuDs& feature=related>
> >
> > The internet though and global communications have also a good
effect as
> > well because easy access to information. I can go online and
search for
> > information on what book I want or where to get Maico parts or
anything
> > which previously would have been a lot harder to find. Also able to
> > connect you with more like minded people around the world.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I just put the rest of my CR500 back together yesterday, had to
get the
> > head milled cause the gasket was leaking so that seems to be fixed
now,
> > will have to see when it starts up. Waiting for my front sprocket now
> > they sent the wrong front sprocket and I'll be ready to go on that
bike.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com <mailto:CR250@ yahoogroups. com> ,
"craigdge"
> > <craigdge@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I could not give up motorcycling for anybody. It would kill my
spirit
> > > to give up riding. Sure someday I'll probably tone it down and take
> > > less chances when there are kids involved, but I will never give up
> > > riding.
> > >
> > > The hardest thing is getting my girlfriend into the sport. She loves
> > > it so far and while I'm excited to teach her what I know, I am still
> > > scared to death of losing the woman I love in a tragic accident. It
> > > can and does happen, even with safe riding practices.
> > >
> > > If the first problem in society is that we don't wanna learn
anything
> > > new from our own senses anymore, the second problem is that the
United
> > > States is now a nation of wussies. The country doesn't know how to
> > > take a hit and keep coming anymore, and I'm not talking about our
> > > methods of warfare. People in general have become lazy,
dependent and
> > > sedentary. It disgusts me.
> > >
> > > Nobody wants to take the risk of riding a motorcycle, of getting
> > > stranded in the desert, of even leaving your own home. It's
become so
> > > bad in fact that some are too scared to even attempt to defend their
> > > own lives when threatened. They instantly want the Police to handle
> > > matters. They want McDonalds to not make coffee too hot. They want
> > > teachers to raise their children. They want computers to give them
> > > all the information they can absorb. They want doctors to cure their
> > > every emotional and physical need.
> > >
> > > A life without risk is a life not worth living. The World's Fastest
> > > Indian (great movie), Anthony Hopkins says "I think you live more in
> > > twenty seconds on a bike like that going flat out than most
people do
> > > in a lifetime".
> > >
> > > Not everybody is going to be a mechanic or a welder, or a carpenter.
> > > But it seems these days that so many people just aren't
interesting in
> > > general, regardless of mechanical aptitude...
> > >
> > > --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, Frank Zee mxbonz@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > One of my riding buds is a steamfitter and teaches welding
> > > class/votech 2 counties over. I can;t for the life of me understand
> > > why the trades are so often panned in the media and society in
general
> > > as "rustbelt" or "the old economy". Not all of us are wired the
> > > exact same and every individual has unique
> > aptitudes/interests /talents.
> > > >
> > > > Toby you are more mechanically capable than you think. Being an
> > > engineer you are a designer so it's related. Part of what I do
> > > involves sitting at this desk (part programming/
sales/contributi ng to
> > > what HAS GOT to be the longest thread in the history of the entire
> > > internet)... .just no walls. Next time you visit Dad ask him to
learn
> > > you to run some beads. Now that mine is gone I miss the interaction
> > > and he wasn't TOTALLY down on racing but saw it as
> > > an obstacle.... since he quit high school to go to Korea and was
from a
> > > time when just about ANY college degree guaranteed the house on the
> > > hill and a gold watch at the end of it all, he didn't want to see me
> > > have to bust my ass like he had to. He took us racing early on
> > > .....since I was gonna get there by hook or by crook but couldn't
> > > figure out that I actually ENJOYED busting my
> > > ass,leg,wrists, collarbones, ribs,knees. ..hmm...ok maybe I
should've
> > quit!
> > > >
> > > > One of my racing buds who I went to college with met a girl
who gave
> > > him the ultimatum so he sold his bikes married her and they have 4
> > > kids. MX is a taboo subject in the household. The oldest (15) has
> > > been into video games since he was very young and is prone to
violent
> > > outbursts/rage, has psychiatric issues and cannot be left alone with
> > > his siblings.... .seriously. Maybe riding could have prevented
alot of
> > > the pent up energy and a sociopathic insensitivity to other's pain.
> > > Hard to say but it seems educators as well as too many parents are
> > > taking a "cookie cutter" approach to child development. ....I
know that
> > > after I pound some hard laps, whatever I might have been pissed
about
> > > before I went riding is a joke by the time I'm off the track.....as
> > > far as physical trauma....I know that all too well and wouldn't
dream
> > > of inflicting it on anyone except in a case of total self defense
> > > Video games remove risk and consequence which are essential
> > > > elemnts of life that MUST be understood and appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Damn gents this group will get you thinkin....
> > > >
> > > > Frank Z MX BONZ www.mxbonz.com
> > > >
> > > > --- On Sat, 1/10/09, craigdge craigdge@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From: craigdge craigdge@
> > > > Subject: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What does it cost to
> > > change the leopard's spots?
> > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com
> > > > Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 1:09 AM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I've been trying to figure a decent intelligent response to your
> > > > praise without seeming like an egotistical a$$. I still have
much to
> > > > learn about any of the trades I'm involved with.
> > > >
> > > > I had the advantage of parents and teachers who all encouraged
me to
> > > > do my own thing. Of course one of the biggest problem with society
> > in
> > > > general is that we don't actually know how to learn anymore -
how to
> > > > observe the world with a critical sense of wonder...
> > > >
> > > > What you're stuck with is a bunch of kids who aren't interested in
> > > > learning anything. When we want an answer we go to the
computer and
> > > > get it. We don't look for it ourselves anymore. We don't look
at the
> > > > older wisdom found in books anymore.
> > > >
> > > > It's hard enough when all anybody wants to do in college after
> > working
> > > > their piddly 20 hour per week job is jump on their Xbox and play
> > > > mindless video games. Or watch crummy movies. I'm guilty of
using a
> > > > computer and watching TV but mostly only when it's far too late to
> > do
> > > > anything else...
> > > >
> > > > As educators we might all hope to inspire those around us. We need
> > to
> > > > mount a distraction to get kids away from their widescreen worlds.
> > > > I'm hoping that I can be that distraction, and perhaps make a
bit of
> > > > the difference I'd like to see in this world.
> > > >
> > > > --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, "Toby Opferman" <yahoo@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > We had Vo-Tech in High School, they had Automotive, etc. a
lot of
> > my
> > > > > friends took those classes. I went to VoTech for computers
and at
> > my
> > > > > old job I had an office but at Intel I do have a cube :)
> > > > >
> > > > > So I'm not a mechanic by any means, I'm a software engineer (you
> > may
> > > > > even be using software I made or worked on). But, my dad was a
> > > > > certified welder and he developed special equipment for
mines. He
> > > > > was always making stuff at home, he built me several go
carts. One
> > > > > he took the rear end of a riding mower so I could have gears and
> > > > > reverse (There's a picture of it on my website)
> > > > >
> > > > > http://motors. opferman. com/Images/ bike2.jpg
> > > > >
> > > > > He saw the neighbor's kid with a wooden one pushing it up
and down
> > > > > the street and said he could make one so he made me, that'
version
> > 3
> > > > > in the picture. He took a fire extinquisher and made it into a
> > sand
> > > > > blaster, took a water heater and turned it into an air
compressor,
> > > > > always welding and making me stuff.
> > > > >
> > > > > So that's the only reason that I even do anything wih a
motor, but
> > > > > ya, people I work with are like amazed that I do anything like
> > work
> > > > > on stuff. I've never welded myself though and I really dont' do
> > > > > anything at all. I hate working on motors, I never even
change my
> > > > > own car oil and never want to. The only thing I will do is
work on
> > a
> > > > > dirt bike because I enjoy riding them, but that's about it I'll
> > never
> > > > > touch a car engine. I've never really did much work besides just
> > > > > watching him though, but I see things sometimes like people turn
> > the
> > > > > 82 Maico frame into an 81 and I'm thinking ya, that would be
> > pretty
> > > > > easy to do! Now where's my dad (he's on the other side of the
> > > > > country)? Cause Ya, I can't do it myself but I know I could get
> > him
> > > > > to do it! So I think things can be done, I just can't do them
> > mostly
> > > > > I'm all thumbs but I understand the theory behind stuff.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, "Steve Clark" <sclark309d@ >
wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I had a very similar discussion with a young man who works for
> > me
> > > > > this
> > > > > > evening. I'm 51 - he's 25 or so
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We were yakking about fixing this and that and he says "I do
> > simple
> > > > > things
> > > > > > like make cables when I need to and my friends are amazed..."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I said "It's almost like we've been trained to think we
can't do
> > > > > anything -
> > > > > > only buy what others make or have others do things for us -
> > can't do
> > > > > > anything ourselves... "
> > > > > >
> > > > > > He said "yeah - they don't teach us how to do anything it
> > seems..."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Frank Zee <mxbonz@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I figured you were on your way to greatness Craig... The
> > > > > basket
> > > > > > > weaving crack is an old "blue collar guy" dig at college
> > > > > curriculum's from
> > > > > > > the 1960's-70's.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here in Montgomery County Md. there is no technical training
> > at
> > > > > the High
> > > > > > > school level. Had I known what a machine shop was at 18, my
> > > > > company would be
> > > > > > > over 30 years old at this point.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They train kids to sit in cubes and never know what it
really
> > IS
> > > > > that they
> > > > > > > do around here....bad deal.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Guys like you will eventually save this country.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Frank Z MX BONZ www.mxbonz.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- On *Fri, 1/9/09, craigdge <craigdge@>* wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: craigdge <craigdge@>
> > > > > > > Subject: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What does it
cost to
> > > > > change the
> > > > > > > leopard's spots?
> > > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com
> > > > > > > Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 8:05 PM
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Career and Technical Education with an emphasis in
Industrial
> > > > > Technology.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In a nutshell, I want to teach high school trade shop
classes.
> > > > > > > According to state requirements I have almost enough
> > documented
> > > > > trade
> > > > > > > experience to teach welding classes. I have more than enough
> > > > > > > documented time as a carpenter and as an automotive mechanic
> > to
> > > > > also
> > > > > > > teach wood shop and automotive shop. Flagstaff has a nice
> > > > > automotive
> > > > > > > shop in their district still, 3 beautiful welding
studios and
> > at
> > > > > least
> > > > > > > 2 wood shops, not to mention a machine shop that is
> > temporarily
> > > > > vacant
> > > > > > > because there is nobody to teach students on the machines...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -Craig-
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com <CR250%40yahoogroup s.com>,
> > > Frank Zee
> > > > > > > <mxbonz@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Basket case weaving..... ......... .
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Frank Z MX BONZ www.mxbonz.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Toby Opferman <yahoo@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > From: Toby Opferman <yahoo@>
> > > > > > > > Subject: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What does it
cost
> > to
> > > > > > > change the leopard's spots?
> > > > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com <CR250%40yahoogroup s.com>
> > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 7:51 PM
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What are you studying in college?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, craigdge <craigdge@ .> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > From: craigdge <craigdge@ .>
> > > > > > > > > Subject: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What does it
> > cost to
> > > > > > > > change the leopard's spots?
> > > > > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com
> > > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 2:19 PM
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Not exactly the same point but it's important to
remember
> > that
> > > > > > > > > individual experiences can often be really skewed.
In the
> > > > > automotive
> > > > > > > > > repair fields, we saw many Ford Tauruses with the 3.8 V6
> > > > > never make
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > past 100k miles because they would have blown a head
> > gasket
> > > > > in that
> > > > > > > > > time.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > But we had a customer who rolled almost 200k on his
> > without
> > > > > ever
> > > > > > > > doing
> > > > > > > > > anything other than routine maintnance. I've probably
> > > > > literally seen
> > > > > > > > > 10 or 12 3.8 liter Taurus engines die in my time but
this
> > one
> > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > wouldn't go peacefully. It finally met its match against
> > an
> > > > > F250 I
> > > > > > > > think.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On the counterpoint, the Toyota Camry always came highly
> > > > > recommended
> > > > > > > > > from us and any other shop for that matter. I've seen
> > several
> > > > > roll
> > > > > > > > > close to 300 thousand miles with care and they are
seldom
> > > > > > > > troublesome.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > My next door neighbor had one that would not start. He
> > took
> > > > > > > > > meticulous care of his '96, 4 cylinder Camry. 60,000
miles
> > it
> > > > > had
> > > > > > > > > broken the connecting rod just below the wrist pin and
> > > > > punched it
> > > > > > > > > through the side of the block on startup.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > And that's why I'm convinced that machines must be
"alive"
> > on
> > > > > some
> > > > > > > > > small level. What makes that 1 in every 10 cars far
> > outlast
> > > > > its
> > > > > > > > > bretheren? What makes that 1 in 10 really fail?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I'm sure there's a logical explanation for it - the head
> > > > > studs on
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > Taurus were probably forged with a little extra carbon
> > > > > introduced
> > > > > > > > into
> > > > > > > > > the steel alloy causing them to stretch less. And the
> > > > > connecting rod
> > > > > > > > > in the old Camry was probably made with a tiny hairline
> > > > > fracture.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Ultimately though I say with modern automated
> > manufacturing,
> > > > > all our
> > > > > > > > > engines today are so good that if you do get a failure,
> > it's
> > > > > > > > probably
> > > > > > > > > just plain old bad luck.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, Frank Zee <mxbonz@>
wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Not a problem brother.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Like I said alot of this is from my
experience/observat
> > > > > ions over
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > years.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > For instance I didn't have any piston problems with my
> > 84
> > > > > CR250
> > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > plenty of other guys did.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > My 79 RM125N began huffing tranny oil after just 3
> > > > > months....when
> > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > tore it down, the centercase was cracked from the
bearing
> > > > > housing up
> > > > > > > > > to the transfer area....very strange so when we checked
> > the
> > > > > crank
> > > > > > > > > runout suspecting that it was bent it indicated out
to be
> > > > > true.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Bought new case(s)....couldn' t buy just one back
then,
> > > > > stuck new
> > > > > > > > > main bearings in and within 2 races the big end bearing
> > > > > > > > seized....the
> > > > > > > > > fresh main bearings were hammered ugly in a weird
> > > > > way....Turned out
> > > > > > > > > each individual crank half had excessive runout yet when
> > > > > pressed
> > > > > > > > > together, the crank would true.....That bike was a
> > > > > > > > nightmare... ..for
> > > > > > > > > me. Many other guys had them without anything like that
> > going
> > > > > on.
> > > > > > > > That
> > > > > > > > > was only one of the many problems that I had with it but
> > > > > after that
> > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > wouldn't buy another Suzuki....Even though I know in my
> > heart
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > hearts that they have and do manufacture some
magnificent
> > > > > > > > motorcycles.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I'm not trashing any brand ....More than anything
> > because I
> > > > > know
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > appreciate the effort that it takes to manufacture and
> > market
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > product.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > There's an old saying that the lemons are the
cars/bikes
> > > > > that roll
> > > > > > > > > off the assembly line on either a monday or a friday so
> > who
> > > > > knows?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Frank Z MX BONZ www.mxbonz.com
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, craigdge <craigdge@ .> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > From: craigdge <craigdge@ .>
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What does it
> > cost
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > change the leopard's spots?
> > > > > > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com
> > > > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 2:28 AM
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > And Frank, to be clear, I don't think you were
"talking
> > > > > crap".
> > > > > > > > > > There's a difference between holding an
intellectual or
> > at
> > > > > least
> > > > > > > > > > somewhat objectified opinion and just being a jerk
> > towards
> > > > > people
> > > > > > > > who
> > > > > > > > > > ride different brands. Clearly you weren't being a
jerk.
> > :-)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Just so you don't misread my intention... ;)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, "craigdge"
<craigdge@ .>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Rick you made a point I most firmly believe in when
> > guys
> > > > > start
> > > > > > > > talking
> > > > > > > > > > > crap about different makes. Among the "big 4"
Japanese
> > > > > makers,
> > > > > > > > > > > they're all excellent. All of them are nicely
made. I
> > > > > guess I
> > > > > > > > still
> > > > > > > > > > > believe in the general rule that the quality of the
> > Honda
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > > somewhat
> > > > > > > > > > > higher than the other makes but I acknowledge
that it
> > is
> > > > > > > > unproven. I
> > > > > > > > > > > never really felt that one brand would really last
> > longer
> > > > > than
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > other. Hell I'll be dead before I wear out any
> > motorcycle
> > > > > > > > anyway. I
> > > > > > > > > > > only log a few thousand miles a year on all of my
> > bikes
> > > > > > > > combined.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > One thing is for sure though, the build quality
of the
> > > > > newer
> > > > > > > > > > > motorcycles has improved vastly. The difference
> > between my
> > > > > > > > dad's '71
> > > > > > > > > > > Honda SL 125 and his '86 XL 600 is impressive.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > As I have said before, I pour money into old
obsolete
> > > > > motorcycle
> > > > > > > > > > > projects even at my ripe young age. I do it because
> > > > > I "like"
> > > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > > > > motorcycles and "don't like" others. I put that in
> > > > > quotations
> > > > > > > > because
> > > > > > > > > > > I really have not yet ridden a motorcycle that I
> > didn't
> > > > > have fun
> > > > > > > > > > > riding. 2 stroke, 4 stroke, Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki,
> > Maico,
> > > > > > > > Husky, KTM,
> > > > > > > > > > > Kawasaki, ATK, Husaberg, Can-Am, who really cares?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Honestly none of my picks are objectively
"worth" the
> > > > > money I
> > > > > > > > put into
> > > > > > > > > > > them. It's all a labor of love. I do it on my
own part
> > > > > because
> > > > > > > > very
> > > > > > > > > > > few modern motorcycles appeal to me like the older
> > ones
> > > > > do.
> > > > > > > > There is
> > > > > > > > > > > something about a junky old barnyard bike that
speaks
> > to
> > > > > my
> > > > > > > > soul, and
> > > > > > > > > > > there's something about kicking that mechanical
beast
> > to
> > > > > life
> > > > > > > > for the
> > > > > > > > > > > first time after it has sat dormant for so long that
> > > > > really
> > > > > > > > gets my
> > > > > > > > > > > heart racing. It's like the thrill of the
unknown when
> > > > > you flip
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > kill switch to run, flip out that kick starter and
> > tell
> > > > > your
> > > > > > > > friends
> > > > > > > > > > > to get back and say "well here goes nothing..."
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Plus I get a lot of stares on a college campus
having
> > a
> > > > > > > > crankcase
> > > > > > > > > > > split on a picnic bench by the campus cafeteria or
> > > > > rebuilding
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > forks on the sidewalk in front of my dorm at
midnight.
> > :-D
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, rick becker
> > <wcmsports@>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Frank
> > > > > > > > > > > > What you say we get together. You start
pouring fuel
> > > > > through
> > > > > > > > an air
> > > > > > > > > > > cooled CR125 (any year) and I will fire up my air
> > cooled
> > > > > Rm 125
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > see who buys a piston first. I will bet you you go
> > thru 3
> > > > > > > > before I
> > > > > > > > > > > need one. Don't get me wrong I think Honda are great
> > bikes
> > > > > > > > (most of
> > > > > > > > > > > them) I have a bunch of them. But their
durability and
> > > > > quality
> > > > > > > > is the
> > > > > > > > > > > most over stated myth in motorcycling. Mostly thanks
> > to
> > > > > MXA and
> > > > > > > > > > > motorcyclist magazines, the two most pro Honda
> > > > > publications
> > > > > > > > ever. I
> > > > > > > > > > > will credit Honda, they how to market. By the way
> > Yamaha
> > > > > parts
> > > > > > > > are by
> > > > > > > > > > > far the cheapest followed by Kawasaki with
Suzuki and
> > > > > Honda
> > > > > > > > being
> > > > > > > > > > > about the same, at least from a deal cost stand
point.
> > The
> > > > > > > > other big
> > > > > > > > > > > problem with Honda parts is they do the worst job of
> > > > > making
> > > > > > > > parts
> > > > > > > > > > > available for older bikes, Yamaha and Suzuki do it
> > best.
> > > > > I have
> > > > > > > > > > > ordered parts for 8 or 9 year Honda only find
out they
> > are
> > > > > > > > > discontinued.
> > > > > > > > > > > > It always surprises me when I talk long time
> > motorcycle
> > > > > guys
> > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > > don't seem to remember the Honda failures, here
a few
> > > > > from when
> > > > > > > > we a
> > > > > > > > > > > Honda deal, recalled all cranks in 93 CR250, broken
> > swing
> > > > > arms
> > > > > > > > 92 thru
> > > > > > > > > > > 95 CR's all sizes, broken clutch baskets 92 thru
96 CR
> > > > > 250.
> > > > > > > > Recall
> > > > > > > > > > > cylinders 85 thru 97 CR 125. Suspension bearing that
> > last
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > week, find an older CR that doesn't have slop in the
> > rear
> > > > > > > > linkage.
> > > > > > > > > > > Kawasaki got that right first with needle bearing on
> > the
> > > > > top and
> > > > > > > > > > > bottom of the shock instead of the dumb spiracle
ball.
> > > > > Charging
> > > > > > > > > > > systems recall and retro fit all 4 cylinder water
> > cooled
> > > > > street
> > > > > > > > bike
> > > > > > > > > > > 88 and 89. Their charging systems still suck wind.
> > > > > Recalled
> > > > > > > > chain
> > > > > > > > > > > tensioners, All CBR1000's. Broken cams 93 thru 96
> > > > > CBR900's. and
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > just a few that I remember from 15 years ago.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Industry stats, warranty claims per 1000 units
sold,
> > > > > least
> > > > > > > > amount
> > > > > > > > > > > Suzuki, then Yamaha , Honda, BMW, then Kawasaki but
> > the
> > > > > > > > difference in
> > > > > > > > > > > almost nothing, less then 2 claims per 1000 units
> > > > > difference,
> > > > > > > > then
> > > > > > > > > > > followed by Harley and most of the other European
> > brands.
> > > > > To
> > > > > > > > make all
> > > > > > > > > > > of the Honda guys like myself feel better jump
on the
> > > > > Maico
> > > > > > > > site for
> > > > > > > > > > > expensive hard to find parts. One guy told me he
spent
> > > > > $7000 on
> > > > > > > > an air
> > > > > > > > > > > cooled single (440 I think). Cool bikes but kinda
> > pricey.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Frank bring 500AR along, they way cool, wish I had
> > one.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Frank Zee <mxbonz@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > From: Frank Zee <mxbonz@>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What
> > does
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > > cost to
> > > > > > > > > > > change the leopard's spots?
> > > > > > > > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com
> > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 12:43 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > You're spot on on that one. Kawasaki is the least
> > > > > expensive...
> > > > > > > > > > > ....but since you have to buy more of them it is
> > actually
> > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > > expensive in the long run. Suzuki is pretty much the
> > same
> > > > > deal.
> > > > > > > > Their
> > > > > > > > > > > parts are slightly higher but you go through them
> > pretty
> > > > > fast
> > > > > > > > as well.
> > > > > > > > > > > Yamaha seems to be closer to Honda in durability and
> > > > > price but
> > > > > > > > yes OE
> > > > > > > > > > > Honda parts are P-ricey.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > All of the japanese brands use ART as their piston
> > > > > supplier
> > > > > > > > yet the
> > > > > > > > > > > Honda stuff seems to last way longer. I think it's a
> > > > > design /
> > > > > > > > layout
> > > > > > > > > > > thing over metallurgy in the case of pistons.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Honda seems to have it over the others in
> > metallurgy,
> > > > > > > > > > > design/execution, durability, gasket technology, and
> > > > > ultimately
> > > > > > > > > resale
> > > > > > > > > > > value.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Frank Z MX BONZ www.mxbonz.com
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 1/7/09, craigdge craigdge@yahoo. com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > From: craigdge craigdge@yahoo. com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What
does
> > it
> > > > > cost to
> > > > > > > > > > > change the leopard's spots?
> > > > > > > > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com
> > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 5:47 AM
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > My experience isn't extremely extensive but of the
> > > > > Japanese
> > > > > > > > dirt
> > > > > > > > > > > > bikes, Honda is about the most expensive to
restore
> > for
> > > > > OEM
> > > > > > > > parts.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > That's just a generalization.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 7 grand is a lot but I would say 3 or 4 could
> > disappear
> > > > > into
> > > > > > > > one of
> > > > > > > > > > > > these bikes quite easily. It's an expensive game.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Even my relatively commonplace Suzuki TS 125 with
> > > > > cheaper OEM
> > > > > > > > parts
> > > > > > > > > > > > costs has run up a tab over over 1100 bucks for me
> > and
> > > > > > > > promises
> > > > > > > > > > > > several hundred bucks more if I can hunt down some
> > of
> > > > > the more
> > > > > > > > > obscure
> > > > > > > > > > > > parts it still needs to be restored 99%.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > It's never practical to restore but to me it's
> > always
> > > > > > > > > worthwhile. :-D
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, Frank Zee <mxbonz@>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > So far no luck........ I'm hoping for a
> > > > > CR85.......next week
> > > > > > > > > I'll be
> > > > > > > > > > > > taking the two bikes to lamaaze classes.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Frank Z MX BONZ www.mxbonz.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 1/6/09, iankkk <ian@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > From: iankkk <ian@>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What
> > does
> > > > > it cost
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > change the leopard's spots?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 6:11 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hahahaha... can i have one of the offspring???
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, Frank Zee
<mxbonz@>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have the 9602 CR250 and the 500AF next
to each
> > > > > > > > other.....I
> > > > > > > > > tell
> > > > > > > > > > > > > them that every night when I leave the shop!!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Frank Z MX BONZ www.mxbonz.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 1/6/09, mikeyagiela89@ ...
> > > > > > > > <mikeyagiela89@ ...>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: mikeyagiela89@ ... <mikeyagiela89@ ...>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R -
> > What
> > > > > does it
> > > > > > > > > > cost to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > change the leopard's spots?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 1:40 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: rick becker wcmsports@yahoo. com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:33 am
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R -
> > What
> > > > > does it
> > > > > > > > > > cost to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > change the leopard's spots?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess I wont be doing any bussiness with
them.
> > > > > Thise
> > > > > > > > > prices are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > out of line.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Toby Opferman
> > yahoo@opferman.
> > > > > com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Toby Opferman yahoo@opferman. com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What
> > does
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > > cost to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > change the leopard's spots?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 12:00 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The bike is a 1982 Maico 490GS
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I first got the bike and took it apart, I
> > > > > thought
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > perhaps
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll just have it rebuilt by someone. So I
> > contacted
> > > > > > > > Canadian
> > > > > > > > > > Maico
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and told them that basically it needed new
> > > > > connecting rod,
> > > > > > > > > clutch
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > basket, etc. and how much would it be. The
> > estimate
> > > > > was
> > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > > > > $2300,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > so I thought ok, I'll just do that. So I sent
> > the
> > > > > motor
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > gave me a new estimate of $3000 not including
> > all
> > > > > parts,
> > > > > > > > so I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > thought
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > hell, just send it back to me and I'll just do
> > it
> > > > > myself.
> > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > then
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > just asked how much to buy the parts I was
> > quoted at
> > > > > > > > $2800 from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > him,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > including $400 for a clutch basket. They
charged
> > me
> > > > > $500
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > unpack
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and pack the motor, plus all the shipping is
> > > > > probably
> > > > > > > > more than
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > $600. Plus when I got it back a fin was
busted.
> > So
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > motor
> > > > > > > > > > took a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > $600 tour. I got the parts he was offering
plus
> > > > > more from
> > > > > > > > > germany
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > for half the price.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, rick becker
> > > > > <wcmsports@ ..>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I assume you talking about a Maico 250? Very
> > cool
> > > > > bike
> > > > > > > > wish
> > > > > > > > > > I had
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > one but here the husky project I just
completed,
> > > > > well
> > > > > > > > sort of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > completed. Are you ever actually done.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bike - $600 local no shipping.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bike new top end - have old parts and the
> > > > > receipts. New
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Progressive
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > shocks, new fenders and magura
lever/mounts and
> > new
> > > > > tires
> > > > > > > > > > front and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > rear.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had to take the motor apart, leaky.
Fix the
> > > > > shift
> > > > > > > > shaft,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > internal
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > weld, paint and reassemble, total cost.
Gaskets
> > and
> > > > > paint
> > > > > > > > $70.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Clean and paint the frame. $20. I think
power
> > > > > coating
> > > > > > > > is a
> > > > > > > > > > waste
> > > > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > money, dont it a few times and the results
were
> > not
> > > > > worth
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > trouble. I can paint at home in the shop.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Installed new steering bearings, $35 for
> > bearing
> > > > > shop.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Installed new wheel bearings and brakes,
$100
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > New cables, $75.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Misc bolts, clips air filter $150 max.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > New chain and sprocket (not really needed)
> > $130
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Used tank $120
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pet cock $40 ebay
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cleaned carb - free
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fork seal and oil $30
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Made rubber exhaust mount - free (used
Suzuki
> > > > > part I
> > > > > > > > had)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Number plates $30
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's about it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ready to race.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Would like 40mm forks and new works
shocks but
> > > > > even with
> > > > > > > > > that I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > would in the 2 grand range plus a little.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > $7000 just seems crazy expensive.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What was the motor tour? Interesting
verbiage.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > United van lines will ship bike on a palette
> > any
> > > > > where
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > under
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > $600, sometime as little as $300. We used them
> > all
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > > > when we
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > had the bike shop (thru 06). Just send a
street
> > > > > bike from
> > > > > > > > Mn to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Texas, $355.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Toby Opferman <yahoo@>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Toby Opferman <yahoo@>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R
- What
> > > > > does it
> > > > > > > > > cost to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > change the leopard's spots?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 11:01 AM
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, probably close to $5 to $7k total
> > including
> > > > > > > > buying the
> > > > > > > > > > bike
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > majority of everything I replaced was on the
> > > > > motor. The
> > > > > > > > > motor I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > got
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > had a lot of wrong parts in it, so I not
only
> > had
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > replace
> > > > > > > > > > > > > things
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > worn out I had to get the right parts. I've
> > even
> > > > > got
> > > > > > > > brand
> > > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shifting forks in it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I paid $1800 for the bike whcih was supposed
> > to
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > completely
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rebuilt (so got ripped off on ebay)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I then paid $900 to ship the bike.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Piston/rings ~$200
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shifting Forks, clutch basket, clutch
plates,
> > > > > bearings,
> > > > > > > > > seals,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > bolts,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > misc. ~$1500
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > connecting rod $160
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > front crank sprocket $125
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Clutch hub $50
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clutch front plate $50
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clutch button plate $50
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Engine goes on tour $600
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Primary chains $67
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Silencer $99, Exhaust $250
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bing Jets $65
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Plus a lot of miscellanous stuff like
> > sprockets,
> > > > > > > > chains, air
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > filter,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > throttle, rear shock, etc. etc.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, rick becker
> > > > > > > > <wcmsports@ ..>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You guys are crazy. How did you get to
7000
> > > > > dollars
> > > > > > > > on a
> > > > > > > > > > motor?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a Honda CR? I just put together a nice, not
> > show
> > > > > > > > quality, but
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nice CR250 Husky for under $2000 including
> > buying
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > bike.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Toby Opferman <yahoo@>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Toby Opferman <yahoo@>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R -
> > What
> > > > > does it
> > > > > > > > > > cost to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > change the leopard's spots?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 10:36 AM
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good thing you aren't rebuilding a
Maico :)
> > I'm
> > > > > pretty
> > > > > > > > > > sure the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rebuild I did was somewhere in that range
> > and
> > > > > that's
> > > > > > > > > only the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > engine.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, "craigdge"
> > > > > > > > <craigdge@ .>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow 7 grand. That's quite a rebuild.
I am
> > > > > doing mine
> > > > > > > > > "on a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > budget".
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am fixing everything but within reason
> > but
> > > > > > > > leaving some
> > > > > > > > > > > > > issues
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > alone and using some cheaper repair
parts.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I may someday regret scrimping on those
> > > > > things but I
> > > > > > > > > do not
> > > > > > > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unlimited money and I have future plans
> > that
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > > much
> > > > > > > > > > bigger
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CR 250. I'm 21 and life is happening
fast
> > > > > > > > sometimes - the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > next
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > few
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > years will almost certainly dramatically
> > > > > rearrange
> > > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > priorities
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd rather not place myself in a
position
> > of
> > > > > having
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > > > > > rid
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toys.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, Frank Zee
> > > > > <mxbonz@>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That seems about right.....still
not too
> > > > > crazy
> > > > > > > > > expensive
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > considering
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the costs of just about anything these
> > days.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I built my 96/02 project last
> > winter I
> > > > > took a
> > > > > > > > > > money is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > object approach and whatever it was
that I
> > > > > wanted
> > > > > > > > on the
> > > > > > > > > > bike
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the engine, I just got it....there were
> > > > > > > > many "Christmas
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > mornings"
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > around here about a year ago.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had it all good to go and was riding
> > by
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > > mid
> > > > > > > > > > May. I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > had
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > alot
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > going on while my Mom was in her
last year
> > > > > and had
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > put the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with her which I'm glad I did.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So about October I decided to add
it all
> > > > > > > > up..........
> > > > > > > > > > .drum
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > roll
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > please...... $7,178.00 from the tickets
> > that
> > > > > I had
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > course
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > shop
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > supplies etc were't factored in.
There are
> > > > > photos of
> > > > > > > > > it in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > somewhere. Note that most all of these
> > parts
> > > > > were
> > > > > > > > had
> > > > > > > > > at or
> > > > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > instances below dealer cost (Forks, FMF
> > pipe,
> > > > > > > > Wheels)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Anything
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > made in house (head stays/HPSD/tooling/
> > > > > machining/
> > > > > > > > shop
> > > > > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > material cost) was also left out.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth be told with my connections
in the
> > > > > > > > industry, I
> > > > > > > > > > could
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gotten a newfangled EFI CRF450 with
what I
> > > > > spent
> > > > > > > > but the
> > > > > > > > > > cost
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spread out over a couple seasons since I
> > began
> > > > > > > > getting
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cases,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cylinder,crank back in 2007 but the 9602
> > > > > CR250 is
> > > > > > > > > without a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > doubt
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > best bike that I have ever ridden
and will
> > > > > last an
> > > > > > > > easy 7
> > > > > > > > > > > > > years
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > $1,000. bux a year is cheap for a
> > dirtbike!!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have fun with your project and
enjoy the
> > end
> > > > > > > > result.
> > > > > > > > > You
> > > > > > > > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > always
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have naysayers in life. Had I
listened to
> > any
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > them I
> > > > > > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > never raced for anywhere near as
long as I
> > > > > have, or
> > > > > > > > > > started my
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > company, much less built the 9602.CR250
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Frank Z MX BONZ www.mxbonz.com .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 1/5/09, craigdge
<craigdge@>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: craigdge <craigdge@>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [CR250] 1989 Honda CR 250R -
> > What
> > > > > does it
> > > > > > > > > > cost to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > change
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the leopard's spots?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 4:38 AM
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK so this topic is for those of
you who
> > > > > warned me
> > > > > > > > > of the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > costs
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > associated with my 1989 Honda CR250
> > > > > rebuild. For
> > > > > > > > > those of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unaware
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is a picture of it somewhere in
> > the
> > > > > photo
> > > > > > > > > gallery I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and at
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the least there is a picture of it
under
> > my
> > > > > > > > > photobucket -
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "craigdge"
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there too.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway if you see the picture or
not, it
> > > > > was a
> > > > > > > > worn
> > > > > > > > > > out but
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > still
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > decently strong running example.
Cost me
> > > > > $300 for
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > project
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > foundation. I have been making an
Excel
> > > > > > > > spreadsheet of
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > parts
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cost
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have tallied up so far. This
does not
> > > > > reflect
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I've
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spent
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on the bike.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So far, with a total bottom end engine
> > > > > rebuild in
> > > > > > > > > mind, I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > totalled $470.03. That includes
all the
> > > > > work done
> > > > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > > far,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > plus
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bottom end rebuild parts I just
ordered,
> > > > > and the
> > > > > > > > fee
> > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > getting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > crank rebuilt. It includes chain,
> > sprocket,
> > > > > brake
> > > > > > > > line,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > tubes,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bunch of other smaller repairs
I've done
> > > > > too.
> > > > > > > > Most of
> > > > > > > > > > it is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lower
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > line aftermarket parts too - this
is not
> > a
> > > > > super
> > > > > > > > > premier
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > engine
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rebuild.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > $470.03
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is for all the basic safety and
> > > > > functionality
> > > > > > > > > of the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > bike.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this point I would have to only invest
> > about
> > > > > > > > > $50-$100 to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > make
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bike
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > perfectly safe (get a different
gas tank
> > to
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > > rid of
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > fuel
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > leak,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > front brake pads and a kill switch)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It does NOT include any fluids. 2
stroke
> > > > > oil,
> > > > > > > > > antifreeze,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > fork
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oil,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tranny oil, none of that is included.
> > Costs
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > cleaning
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > solvents
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > alone will probably total $50 in the
> > course
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > rebuild.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have priced out just about all of my
> > > > > proposed
> > > > > > > > > > > > > modifications
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > left to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > go. This is assuming I reuse my
top end,
> > > > > and I
> > > > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > > > based
> > > > > > > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > see so far and from what the previous
> > owner
> > > > > told
> > > > > > > > me, I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > should
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > able
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to do so. Total restoration cost:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > $1113.53
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is assuming I purchase an OEM
seat
> > and
> > > > > a used
> > > > > > > > > > factory
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > gas
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tank,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aftermarket UFO plastics, a DRC wiring
> > kit
> > > > > with a
> > > > > > > > decent
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > headlight/tail light combo and a
> > smattering
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > > > > > > repairs
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bike
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > needs.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This does NOT include the cost of
tires.
> > > > > The tires
> > > > > > > > > > that are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will last about a season of riding.
> > After
> > > > > that I
> > > > > > > > > plan on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > decent
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dual sport DOT knobbies. The bike may
> > need
> > > > > a rim
> > > > > > > > > down the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > road
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > too.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I plan on using the old rim as long as
> > > > > possible
> > > > > > > > before
> > > > > > > > > > > > > lacing
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > one on.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This does NOT include the cost of
> > > > > registration,
> > > > > > > > > > titling or
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > insurance.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's going to cost a substantial
amount
> > > > > just to
> > > > > > > > get the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > paperwork
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > through on the title due to some
> > problems.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This does NOT include my eventual
plans
> > to
> > > > > spiff
> > > > > > > > up the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > frame
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that has
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > some dings in the tubes. Straight used
> > > > > frames can
> > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > had
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > pretty
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cheap
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So there you have it folks. Is it all
> > worth
> > > > > it?
> > > > > > > > Well
> > > > > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > going
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spending more than $1400 for an out of
> > date
> > > > > worn
> > > > > > > > out
> > > > > > > > > race
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > bike.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > me, it's worth the time and pride of
> > > > > knowing that
> > > > > > > > I've
> > > > > > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > best I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can. Given my reputation for
forgetting
> > > > > things,
> > > > > > > > it will
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > probably
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cost
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > closer to 2 large by the time I'm done
> > with
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > > thing.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not a complaint or a call for
> > > > > advice. This
> > > > > > > > > is the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > facts
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what rebuilding a worn out old CR250
> > from
> > > > > the 80s
> > > > > > > > > really
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > costs.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an expensive proposition and I knew it
> > when
> > > > > I got
> > > > > > > > into
> > > > > > > > > > it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > told my estimate for final build cost
> > was
> > > > > within
> > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > 100
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bucks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the actual cost of doing this rebuild.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just throwing it out there. I have
> > detailed
> > > > > all my
> > > > > > > > > parts
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sources,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when this job is done I will be
posting
> > my
> > > > > Excel
> > > > > > > > > document
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > here
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for all
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to see who care to follow in my
> > footsteps.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Craig-
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. Thanks to guys like Frank and
Rick
> > and
> > > > > others
> > > > > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > here
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > who
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have already given me tons of solid
> > advice
> > > > > in a
> > > > > > > > field
> > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > am
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > far
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from an expert on.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get a free MP3 every day with the Spinner.com
> > > > > Toolbar. Get
> > > > > > > > > it Now.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>