From: Frank Zee <mxbonz@...>
Subject: Re: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What does it cost to change the leopard's spots?
To: CR250@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 1:17 AM

One of my riding buds is a steamfitter and teaches welding class/votech 2 counties over. I can;t for the life of me understand why the trades are so often panned in the media and society in general as "rustbelt" or "the old economy". Not all of us are wired the exact same and every individual has unique aptitudes/interests /talents.   Toby you are more mechanically capable than you think. Being an engineer you are a designer so it's related. Part of what I do involves sitting at this desk (part programming/ sales/contributi ng to what HAS GOT to be the longest thread in the history of the entire internet)... .just no walls. Next time you visit Dad ask him to learn you to run some beads. Now that mine is gone I miss the interaction and he wasn't TOTALLY down on racing but saw it as an obstacle.... since he quit high school to go to Korea and was from a time when just about ANY college degree guaranteed the house on the hill and a gold watch at the end of it all, he didn't want to see me have to bust my ass like he had to. He took us racing early on .....since I was gonna get there by hook or by crook but couldn't figure out that I actually ENJOYED busting my ass,leg,wrists, collarbones, ribs,knees. ..hmm...ok maybe I should've quit!   One of my racing buds who I went to college with met a girl who gave him the ultimatum so he sold his bikes married her and they have 4 kids. MX is a taboo subject in the household. The oldest (15)  has been into video games since he was very young and is prone to violent outbursts/rage, has psychiatric issues and cannot be left alone with his siblings.... .seriously. Maybe riding could have prevented alot of the pent up energy and a sociopathic insensitivity to other's pain. Hard to say but it seems educators as well as too many parents are taking a "cookie cutter" approach to child development. ....I know that after I pound some hard laps, whatever I might have been pissed about before I went riding is a joke by the time I'm off the track.....as far as physical trauma....I know that all too well and wouldn't dream of inflicting it on anyone  except in a case of total self defense   Video games remove risk and consequence which are essential elemnts of life that MUST be understood and appreciated.   Damn gents this group will get you thinkin....   Frank Z    MX BONZ     www.mxbonz.com  --- On Sat, 1/10/09, craigdge <craigdge@yahoo. com> wrote: From: craigdge <craigdge@yahoo. com> Subject: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What does it cost to change the leopard's spots? To: CR250@yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 1:09 AM I've been trying to figure a decent intelligent response to your praise without seeming like an egotistical a$$. I still have much to learn about any of the trades I'm involved with. I had the advantage of parents and teachers who all encouraged me to do my own thing. Of course one of the biggest problem with society in general is that we don't actually know how to learn anymore - how to observe the world with a critical sense of wonder... What you're stuck with is a bunch of kids who aren't interested in learning anything. When we want an answer we go to the computer and get it. We don't look for it ourselves anymore. We don't look at the older wisdom found in books anymore. It's hard enough when all anybody wants to do in college after working their piddly 20 hour per week job is jump on their Xbox and play mindless video games. Or watch crummy movies. I'm guilty of using a computer and watching TV but mostly only when it's far too late to do anything else... As educators we might all hope to inspire those around us. We need to mount a distraction to get kids away from their widescreen worlds. I'm hoping that I can be that distraction, and perhaps make a bit of the difference I'd like to see in this world. --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, "Toby Opferman" <yahoo@...> wrote: > > We had Vo-Tech in High School, they had Automotive, etc. a lot of my > friends took those classes. I went to VoTech for computers and at my > old job I had an office but at Intel I do have a cube :) > > So I'm not a mechanic by any means, I'm a software engineer (you may > even be using software I made or worked on). But, my dad was a > certified welder and he developed special equipment for mines. He > was always making stuff at home, he built me several go carts. One > he took the rear end of a riding mower so I could have gears and > reverse (There's a picture of it on my website) > > http://motors. opferman. com/Images/ bike2.jpg > > He saw the neighbor's kid with a wooden one pushing it up and down > the street and said he could make one so he made me, that' version 3 > in the picture. He took a fire extinquisher and made it into a sand > blaster, took a water heater and turned it into an air compressor, > always welding and making me stuff. > > So that's the only reason that I even do anything wih a motor, but > ya, people I work with are like amazed that I do anything like work > on stuff. I've never welded myself though and I really dont' do > anything at all. I hate working on motors, I never even change my > own car oil and never want to. The only thing I will do is work on a > dirt bike because I enjoy riding them, but that's about it I'll never > touch a car engine. I've never really did much work besides just > watching him though, but I see things sometimes like people turn the > 82 Maico frame into an 81 and I'm thinking ya, that would be pretty > easy to do! Now where's my dad (he's on the other side of the > country)? Cause Ya, I can't do it myself but I know I could get him > to do it! So I think things can be done, I just can't do them mostly > I'm all thumbs but I understand the theory behind stuff. > > > --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, "Steve Clark" <sclark309d@ > wrote: > > > > I had a very similar discussion with a young man who works for me > this > > evening. I'm 51 - he's 25 or so > > > > We were yakking about fixing this and that and he says "I do simple > things > > like make cables when I need to and my friends are amazed..." > > > > I said "It's almost like we've been trained to think we can't do > anything - > > only buy what others make or have others do things for us - can't do > > anything ourselves... " > > > > He said "yeah - they don't teach us how to do anything it seems..." > > > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Frank Zee <mxbonz@> wrote: > > > > > I figured you were on your way to greatness Craig... The > basket > > > weaving crack is an old "blue collar guy" dig at college > curriculum's from > > > the 1960's-70's. > > > > > > Here in Montgomery County Md. there is no technical training at > the High > > > school level. Had I known what a machine shop was at 18, my > company would be > > > over 30 years old at this point. > > > > > > They train kids to sit in cubes and never know what it really IS > that they > > > do around here....bad deal. > > > > > > Guys like you will eventually save this country. > > > > > > Frank Z MX BONZ www.mxbonz.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On *Fri, 1/9/09, craigdge <craigdge@>* wrote: > > > > > > From: craigdge <craigdge@> > > > Subject: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What does it cost to > change the > > > leopard's spots? > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 8:05 PM > > > > > > Career and Technical Education with an emphasis in Industrial > Technology. > > > > > > In a nutshell, I want to teach high school trade shop classes. > > > According to state requirements I have almost enough documented > trade > > > experience to teach welding classes. I have more than enough > > > documented time as a carpenter and as an automotive mechanic to > also > > > teach wood shop and automotive shop. Flagstaff has a nice > automotive > > > shop in their district still, 3 beautiful welding studios and at > least > > > 2 wood shops, not to mention a machine shop that is temporarily > vacant > > > because there is nobody to teach students on the machines... > > > > > > -Craig- > > > > > > --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com <CR250%40yahoogroup s.com>, Frank Zee > > > <mxbonz@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Basket case weaving..... ......... . > > > > > > > > Frank Z MX BONZ www.mxbonz.com > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Toby Opferman <yahoo@> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Toby Opferman <yahoo@> > > > > Subject: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What does it cost to > > > change the leopard's spots? > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com <CR250%40yahoogroup s.com> > > > > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 7:51 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you studying in college? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, craigdge <craigdge@ .> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: craigdge <craigdge@ .> > > > > > Subject: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What does it cost to > > > > change the leopard's spots? > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 2:19 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not exactly the same point but it's important to remember that > > > > > individual experiences can often be really skewed. In the > automotive > > > > > repair fields, we saw many Ford Tauruses with the 3.8 V6 > never make > > > > it > > > > > past 100k miles because they would have blown a head gasket > in that > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > But we had a customer who rolled almost 200k on his without > ever > > > > doing > > > > > anything other than routine maintnance. I've probably > literally seen > > > > > 10 or 12 3.8 liter Taurus engines die in my time but this one > just > > > > > wouldn't go peacefully. It finally met its match against an > F250 I > > > > think. > > > > > > > > > > On the counterpoint, the Toyota Camry always came highly > recommended > > > > > from us and any other shop for that matter. I've seen several > roll > > > > > close to 300 thousand miles with care and they are seldom > > > > troublesome. > > > > > > > > > > My next door neighbor had one that would not start. He took > > > > > meticulous care of his '96, 4 cylinder Camry. 60,000 miles it > had > > > > > broken the connecting rod just below the wrist pin and > punched it > > > > > through the side of the block on startup. > > > > > > > > > > And that's why I'm convinced that machines must be "alive" on > some > > > > > small level. What makes that 1 in every 10 cars far outlast > its > > > > > bretheren? What makes that 1 in 10 really fail? > > > > > > > > > > I'm sure there's a logical explanation for it - the head > studs on > > > > that > > > > > Taurus were probably forged with a little extra carbon > introduced > > > > into > > > > > the steel alloy causing them to stretch less. And the > connecting rod > > > > > in the old Camry was probably made with a tiny hairline > fracture. > > > > > > > > > > Ultimately though I say with modern automated manufacturing, > all our > > > > > engines today are so good that if you do get a failure, it's > > > > probably > > > > > just plain old bad luck. > > > > > > > > > > --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, Frank Zee <mxbonz@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Not a problem brother. > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said alot of this is from my experience/observat > ions over > > > > the > > > > > years. > > > > > > > > > > > > For instance I didn't have any piston problems with my 84 > CR250 > > > > but > > > > > plenty of other guys did. > > > > > > > > > > > > My 79 RM125N began huffing tranny oil after just 3 > months....when > > > > I > > > > > tore it down, the centercase was cracked from the bearing > housing up > > > > > to the transfer area....very strange so when we checked the > crank > > > > > runout suspecting that it was bent it indicated out to be > true. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bought new case(s)....couldn' t buy just one back then, > stuck new > > > > > main bearings in and within 2 races the big end bearing > > > > seized....the > > > > > fresh main bearings were hammered ugly in a weird > way....Turned out > > > > > each individual crank half had excessive runout yet when > pressed > > > > > together, the crank would true.....That bike was a > > > > nightmare... ..for > > > > > me. Many other guys had them without anything like that going > on. > > > > That > > > > > was only one of the many problems that I had with it but > after that > > > > I > > > > > wouldn't buy another Suzuki....Even though I know in my heart > of > > > > > hearts that they have and do manufacture some magnificent > > > > motorcycles. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not trashing any brand ....More than anything because I > know > > > > and > > > > > appreciate the effort that it takes to manufacture and market > a > > > > product. > > > > > > > > > > > > There's an old saying that the lemons are the cars/bikes > that roll > > > > > off the assembly line on either a monday or a friday so who > knows? > > > > > > > > > > > > Frank Z MX BONZ www.mxbonz.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, craigdge <craigdge@ .> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: craigdge <craigdge@ .> > > > > > > Subject: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What does it cost > to > > > > > change the leopard's spots? > > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com > > > > > > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 2:28 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And Frank, to be clear, I don't think you were "talking > crap". > > > > > > There's a difference between holding an intellectual or at > least > > > > > > somewhat objectified opinion and just being a jerk towards > people > > > > who > > > > > > ride different brands. Clearly you weren't being a jerk. :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Just so you don't misread my intention... ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, "craigdge" <craigdge@ .> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rick you made a point I most firmly believe in when guys > start > > > > talking > > > > > > > crap about different makes. Among the "big 4" Japanese > makers, > > > > > > > they're all excellent. All of them are nicely made. I > guess I > > > > still > > > > > > > believe in the general rule that the quality of the Honda > is > > > > somewhat > > > > > > > higher than the other makes but I acknowledge that it is > > > > unproven. I > > > > > > > never really felt that one brand would really last longer > than > > > > the > > > > > > > other. Hell I'll be dead before I wear out any motorcycle > > > > anyway. I > > > > > > > only log a few thousand miles a year on all of my bikes > > > > combined. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One thing is for sure though, the build quality of the > newer > > > > > > > motorcycles has improved vastly. The difference between my > > > > dad's '71 > > > > > > > Honda SL 125 and his '86 XL 600 is impressive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I have said before, I pour money into old obsolete > motorcycle > > > > > > > projects even at my ripe young age. I do it because > I "like" > > > > some > > > > > > > motorcycles and "don't like" others. I put that in > quotations > > > > because > > > > > > > I really have not yet ridden a motorcycle that I didn't > have fun > > > > > > > riding. 2 stroke, 4 stroke, Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Maico, > > > > Husky, KTM, > > > > > > > Kawasaki, ATK, Husaberg, Can-Am, who really cares? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly none of my picks are objectively "worth" the > money I > > > > put into > > > > > > > them. It's all a labor of love. I do it on my own part > because > > > > very > > > > > > > few modern motorcycles appeal to me like the older ones > do. > > > > There is > > > > > > > something about a junky old barnyard bike that speaks to > my > > > > soul, and > > > > > > > there's something about kicking that mechanical beast to > life > > > > for the > > > > > > > first time after it has sat dormant for so long that > really > > > > gets my > > > > > > > heart racing. It's like the thrill of the unknown when > you flip > > > > the > > > > > > > kill switch to run, flip out that kick starter and tell > your > > > > friends > > > > > > > to get back and say "well here goes nothing..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Plus I get a lot of stares on a college campus having a > > > > crankcase > > > > > > > split on a picnic bench by the campus cafeteria or > rebuilding > > > > the > > > > > > > forks on the sidewalk in front of my dorm at midnight. :-D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, rick becker <wcmsports@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Frank > > > > > > > > What you say we get together. You start pouring fuel > through > > > > an air > > > > > > > cooled CR125 (any year) and I will fire up my air cooled > Rm 125 > > > > and > > > > > > > see who buys a piston first. I will bet you you go thru 3 > > > > before I > > > > > > > need one. Don't get me wrong I think Honda are great bikes > > > > (most of > > > > > > > them) I have a bunch of them. But their durability and > quality > > > > is the > > > > > > > most over stated myth in motorcycling. Mostly thanks to > MXA and > > > > > > > motorcyclist magazines, the two most pro Honda > publications > > > > ever. I > > > > > > > will credit Honda, they how to market. By the way Yamaha > parts > > > > are by > > > > > > > far the cheapest followed by Kawasaki with Suzuki and > Honda > > > > being > > > > > > > about the same, at least from a deal cost stand point. The > > > > other big > > > > > > > problem with Honda parts is they do the worst job of > making > > > > parts > > > > > > > available for older bikes, Yamaha and Suzuki do it best. > I have > > > > > > > ordered parts for 8 or 9 year Honda only find out they are > > > > > discontinued. > > > > > > > > It always surprises me when I talk long time motorcycle > guys > > > > they > > > > > > > don't seem to remember the Honda failures, here a few > from when > > > > we a > > > > > > > Honda deal, recalled all cranks in 93 CR250, broken swing > arms > > > > 92 thru > > > > > > > 95 CR's all sizes, broken clutch baskets 92 thru 96 CR > 250. > > > > Recall > > > > > > > cylinders 85 thru 97 CR 125. Suspension bearing that last > about > > > > a > > > > > > > week, find an older CR that doesn't have slop in the rear > > > > linkage. > > > > > > > Kawasaki got that right first with needle bearing on the > top and > > > > > > > bottom of the shock instead of the dumb spiracle ball. > Charging > > > > > > > systems recall and retro fit all 4 cylinder water cooled > street > > > > bike > > > > > > > 88 and 89. Their charging systems still suck wind. > Recalled > > > > chain > > > > > > > tensioners, All CBR1000's. Broken cams 93 thru 96 > CBR900's. and > > > > that > > > > > > > just a few that I remember from 15 years ago. > > > > > > > > Industry stats, warranty claims per 1000 units sold, > least > > > > amount > > > > > > > Suzuki, then Yamaha , Honda, BMW, then Kawasaki but the > > > > difference in > > > > > > > almost nothing, less then 2 claims per 1000 units > difference, > > > > then > > > > > > > followed by Harley and most of the other European brands. > To > > > > make all > > > > > > > of the Honda guys like myself feel better jump on the > Maico > > > > site for > > > > > > > expensive hard to find parts. One guy told me he spent > $7000 on > > > > an air > > > > > > > cooled single (440 I think). Cool bikes but kinda pricey. > > > > > > > > Frank bring 500AR along, they way cool, wish I had one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Frank Zee <mxbonz@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Frank Zee <mxbonz@> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What does > it > > > > cost to > > > > > > > change the leopard's spots? > > > > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 12:43 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're spot on on that one. Kawasaki is the least > expensive... > > > > > > > ....but since you have to buy more of them it is actually > more > > > > > > > expensive in the long run. Suzuki is pretty much the same > deal. > > > > Their > > > > > > > parts are slightly higher but you go through them pretty > fast > > > > as well. > > > > > > > Yamaha seems to be closer to Honda in durability and > price but > > > > yes OE > > > > > > > Honda parts are P-ricey. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All of the japanese brands use ART as their piston > supplier > > > > yet the > > > > > > > Honda stuff seems to last way longer. I think it's a > design / > > > > layout > > > > > > > thing over metallurgy in the case of pistons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Honda seems to have it over the others in metallurgy, > > > > > > > design/execution, durability, gasket technology, and > ultimately > > > > > resale > > > > > > > value. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Frank Z MX BONZ www.mxbonz.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 1/7/09, craigdge <craigdge@yahoo. com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: craigdge <craigdge@yahoo. com> > > > > > > > > Subject: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What does it > cost to > > > > > > > change the leopard's spots? > > > > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 5:47 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My experience isn't extremely extensive but of the > Japanese > > > > dirt > > > > > > > > bikes, Honda is about the most expensive to restore for > OEM > > > > parts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's just a generalization. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7 grand is a lot but I would say 3 or 4 could disappear > into > > > > one of > > > > > > > > these bikes quite easily. It's an expensive game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even my relatively commonplace Suzuki TS 125 with > cheaper OEM > > > > parts > > > > > > > > costs has run up a tab over over 1100 bucks for me and > > > > promises > > > > > > > > several hundred bucks more if I can hunt down some of > the more > > > > > obscure > > > > > > > > parts it still needs to be restored 99%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's never practical to restore but to me it's always > > > > > worthwhile. :-D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, Frank Zee <mxbonz@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So far no luck........ I'm hoping for a > CR85.......next week > > > > > I'll be > > > > > > > > taking the two bikes to lamaaze classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Frank Z MX BONZ www.mxbonz.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 1/6/09, iankkk <ian@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: iankkk <ian@> > > > > > > > > > Subject: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What does > it cost > > > > to > > > > > > > > change the leopard's spots? > > > > > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 6:11 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hahahaha... can i have one of the offspring??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, Frank Zee <mxbonz@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have the 9602 CR250 and the 500AF next to each > > > > other.....I > > > > > tell > > > > > > > > > them that every night when I leave the shop!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Frank Z MX BONZ www.mxbonz.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 1/6/09, mikeyagiela89@ ... > > > > <mikeyagiela89@ ...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: mikeyagiela89@ ... <mikeyagiela89@ ...> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What > does it > > > > > > cost to > > > > > > > > > change the leopard's spots? > > > > > > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 1:40 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: rick becker <wcmsports@yahoo. com> > > > > > > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:33 am > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What > does it > > > > > > cost to > > > > > > > > > change the leopard's spots? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow > > > > > > > > > > I guess I wont be doing any bussiness with them. > Thise > > > > > prices are > > > > > > > > > out of line. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Toby Opferman <yahoo@opferman. > com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Toby Opferman <yahoo@opferman. com> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What does > it > > > > cost to > > > > > > > > > change the leopard's spots? > > > > > > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 12:00 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The bike is a 1982 Maico 490GS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I first got the bike and took it apart, I > thought > > > > that > > > > > > perhaps > > > > > > > > > > I'll just have it rebuilt by someone. So I contacted > > > > Canadian > > > > > > Maico > > > > > > > > > > and told them that basically it needed new > connecting rod, > > > > > clutch > > > > > > > > > > basket, etc. and how much would it be. The estimate > was > > > > about > > > > > > > > > $2300, > > > > > > > > > > so I thought ok, I'll just do that. So I sent the > motor > > > > and > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > > gave me a new estimate of $3000 not including all > parts, > > > > so I > > > > > > > > > thought > > > > > > > > > > hell, just send it back to me and I'll just do it > myself. > > > > I > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > > just asked how much to buy the parts I was quoted at > > > > $2800 from > > > > > > > > > him, > > > > > > > > > > including $400 for a clutch basket. They charged me > $500 > > > > to > > > > > > unpack > > > > > > > > > > and pack the motor, plus all the shipping is > probably > > > > more than > > > > > > > > > > $600. Plus when I got it back a fin was busted. So > the > > > > motor > > > > > > took a > > > > > > > > > > $600 tour. I got the parts he was offering plus > more from > > > > > germany > > > > > > > > > > for half the price. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, rick becker > <wcmsports@ ..> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I assume you talking about a Maico 250? Very cool > bike > > > > wish > > > > > > I had > > > > > > > > > > one but here the husky project I just completed, > well > > > > sort of > > > > > > > > > > completed. Are you ever actually done. > > > > > > > > > > > Bike - $600 local no shipping. > > > > > > > > > > > Bike new top end - have old parts and the > receipts. New > > > > > > > > > Progressive > > > > > > > > > > shocks, new fenders and magura lever/mounts and new > tires > > > > > > front and > > > > > > > > > > rear. > > > > > > > > > > > I had to take the motor apart, leaky. Fix the > shift > > > > shaft, > > > > > > > > > internal > > > > > > > > > > weld, paint and reassemble, total cost. Gaskets and > paint > > > > $70. > > > > > > > > > > > Clean and paint the frame. $20. I think power > coating > > > > is a > > > > > > waste > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > money, dont it a few times and the results were not > worth > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > trouble. I can paint at home in the shop. > > > > > > > > > > > Installed new steering bearings, $35 for bearing > shop. > > > > > > > > > > > Installed new wheel bearings and brakes, $100 > > > > > > > > > > > New cables, $75. > > > > > > > > > > > Misc bolts, clips air filter $150 max. > > > > > > > > > > > New chain and sprocket (not really needed) $130 > > > > > > > > > > > Used tank $120 > > > > > > > > > > > Pet cock $40 ebay > > > > > > > > > > > Cleaned carb - free > > > > > > > > > > > Fork seal and oil $30 > > > > > > > > > > > Made rubber exhaust mount - free (used Suzuki > part I > > > > had) > > > > > > > > > > > Number plates $30 > > > > > > > > > > > That's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > Ready to race. > > > > > > > > > > > Would like 40mm forks and new works shocks but > even with > > > > > that I > > > > > > > > > > would in the 2 grand range plus a little. > > > > > > > > > > > $7000 just seems crazy expensive. > > > > > > > > > > > What was the motor tour? Interesting verbiage. > > > > > > > > > > > United van lines will ship bike on a palette any > where > > > > for > > > > > > under > > > > > > > > > > $600, sometime as little as $300. We used them all > the > > > > time > > > > > > when we > > > > > > > > > > had the bike shop (thru 06). Just send a street > bike from > > > > Mn to > > > > > > > > > > Texas, $355. > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Toby Opferman <yahoo@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Toby Opferman <yahoo@> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What > does it > > > > > cost to > > > > > > > > > > change the leopard's spots? > > > > > > > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 11:01 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, probably close to $5 to $7k total including > > > > buying the > > > > > > bike > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > majority of everything I replaced was on the > motor. The > > > > > motor I > > > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > > > > > had a lot of wrong parts in it, so I not only had > to > > > > replace > > > > > > > > > things > > > > > > > > > > > worn out I had to get the right parts. I've even > got > > > > brand > > > > > new > > > > > > > > > > > shifting forks in it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I paid $1800 for the bike whcih was supposed to > have > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > completely > > > > > > > > > > > rebuilt (so got ripped off on ebay) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I then paid $900 to ship the bike. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Piston/rings ~$200 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shifting Forks, clutch basket, clutch plates, > bearings, > > > > > seals, > > > > > > > > > > bolts, > > > > > > > > > > > misc. ~$1500 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > connecting rod $160 > > > > > > > > > > > front crank sprocket $125 > > > > > > > > > > > Clutch hub $50 > > > > > > > > > > > clutch front plate $50 > > > > > > > > > > > clutch button plate $50 > > > > > > > > > > > Engine goes on tour $600 > > > > > > > > > > > Primary chains $67 > > > > > > > > > > > Silencer $99, Exhaust $250 > > > > > > > > > > > Bing Jets $65 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Plus a lot of miscellanous stuff like sprockets, > > > > chains, air > > > > > > > > > > filter, > > > > > > > > > > > throttle, rear shock, etc. etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, rick becker > > > > <wcmsports@ ..> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You guys are crazy. How did you get to 7000 > dollars > > > > on a > > > > > > motor? > > > > > > > > > > Or > > > > > > > > > > > a Honda CR? I just put together a nice, not show > > > > quality, but > > > > > > > > > > > nice CR250 Husky for under $2000 including buying > the > > > > bike. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Toby Opferman <yahoo@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Toby Opferman <yahoo@> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [CR250] Re: 1989 Honda CR 250R - What > does it > > > > > > cost to > > > > > > > > > > > change the leopard's spots? > > > > > > > > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 10:36 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good thing you aren't rebuilding a Maico :) I'm > pretty > > > > > > sure the > > > > > > > > > > > > rebuild I did was somewhere in that range and > that's > > > > > only the > > > > > > > > > > > engine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, "craigdge" > > > > <craigdge@ .> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow 7 grand. That's quite a rebuild. I am > doing mine > > > > > "on a > > > > > > > > > > > > budget". > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am fixing everything but within reason but > > > > leaving some > > > > > > > > > issues > > > > > > > > > > > > > alone and using some cheaper repair parts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I may someday regret scrimping on those > things but I > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > unlimited money and I have future plans that > are > > > > much > > > > > > bigger > > > > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > CR 250. I'm 21 and life is happening fast > > > > sometimes - the > > > > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > > > few > > > > > > > > > > > > > years will almost certainly dramatically > rearrange > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > priorities > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd rather not place myself in a position of > having > > > > to > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > rid > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > > > > > toys. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In CR250@yahoogroups. com, Frank Zee > <mxbonz@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That seems about right.....still not too > crazy > > > > > expensive > > > > > > > > > > > > considering > > > > > > > > > > > > > the costs of just about anything these days. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I built my 96/02 project last winter I > took a > > > > > > money is > > > > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > > > > > object approach and whatever it was that I > wanted > > > > on the > > > > > > bike > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > the engine, I just got it....there were > > > > many "Christmas > > > > > > > > > > mornings" > > > > > > > > > > > > > around here about a year ago. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had it all good to go and was riding by > about > > > > mid > > > > > > May. I > > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > > > alot > > > > > > > > > > > > > going on while my Mom was in her last year > and had > > > > to > > > > > > put the > > > > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > with her which I'm glad I did. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So about October I decided to add it all > > > > up.......... > > > > > > .drum > > > > > > > > > > roll > > > > > > > > > > > > > please...... $7,178.00 from the tickets that > I had > > > > of > > > > > > course > > > > > > > > > > shop > > > > > > > > > > > > > supplies etc were't factored in. There are > photos of > > > > > it in > > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > > > > > somewhere. Note that most all of these parts > were > > > > had > > > > > at or > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > > > > instances below dealer cost (Forks, FMF pipe, > > > > Wheels) > > > > > > > > > Anything > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > > > made in house (head stays/HPSD/tooling/ > machining/ > > > > shop > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > material cost) was also left out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth be told with my connections in the > > > > industry, I > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > gotten a newfangled EFI CRF450 with what I > spent > > > > but the > > > > > > cost > > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > spread out over a couple seasons since I began > > > > getting > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > new > > > > > > > > > > > > cases, > > > > > > > > > > > > > cylinder,crank back in 2007 but the 9602 > CR250 is > > > > > without a > > > > > > > > > > doubt > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > best bike that I have ever ridden and will > last an > > > > easy 7 > > > > > > > > > years > > > > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > > > > > $1,000. bux a year is cheap for a dirtbike!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have fun with your project and enjoy the end > > > > result. > > > > > You > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > > > > have naysayers in life. Had I listened to any > of > > > > them I > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > never raced for anywhere near as long as I > have, or > > > > > > started my > > > > > > > > > > > > > company, much less built the 9602.CR250 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Frank Z MX BONZ www.mxbonz.com . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 1/5/09, craigdge <craigdge@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: craigdge <craigdge@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [CR250] 1989 Honda CR 250R - What > does it > > > > > > cost to > > > > > > > > > > > change > > > > > > > > > > > > > the leopard's spots? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: CR250@yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 4:38 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK so this topic is for those of you who > warned me > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > > > costs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > associated with my 1989 Honda CR250 > rebuild. For > > > > > those of > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > unaware > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is a picture of it somewhere in the > photo > > > > > gallery I > > > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > and at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the least there is a picture of it under my > > > > > photobucket - > > > > > > > > > > > > "craigdge" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway if you see the picture or not, it > was a > > > > worn > > > > > > out but > > > > > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > > > > > > > decently strong running example. Cost me > $300 for > > > > the > > > > > > > > > project > > > > > > > > > > > > > > foundation. I have been making an Excel > > > > spreadsheet of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > parts > > > > > > > > > > > > cost > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have tallied up so far. This does not > reflect > > > > the > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > I've > > > > > > > > > > > > spent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on the bike. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So far, with a total bottom end engine > rebuild in > > > > > mind, I > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > totalled $470.03. That includes all the > work done > > > > so > > > > > far, > > > > > > > > > > plus > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bottom end rebuild parts I just ordered, > and the > > > > fee > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > getting > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > crank rebuilt. It includes chain, sprocket, > brake > > > > line, > > > > > > > > > > tubes, > > > > > > > > > > > > and a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bunch of other smaller repairs I've done > too. > > > > Most of > > > > > > it is > > > > > > > > > > > lower > > > > > > > > > > > > > > line aftermarket parts too - this is not a > super > > > > > premier > > > > > > > > > > engine > > > > > > > > > > > > rebuild. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > $470.03 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is for all the basic safety and > functionality > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > > > bike. > > > > > > > > > > > > From > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this point I would have to only invest about > > > > > $50-$100 to > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > bike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > perfectly safe (get a different gas tank to > get > > > > rid of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > fuel > > > > > > > > > > > > leak, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > front brake pads and a kill switch) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It does NOT include any fluids. 2 stroke > oil, > > > > > antifreeze, > > > > > > > > > > fork > > > > > > > > > > > > oil, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tranny oil, none of that is included. Costs > of > > > > cleaning > > > > > > > > > > solvents > > > > > > > > > > > > > > alone will probably total $50 in the course > of > > > > this > > > > > > rebuild. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have priced out just about all of my > proposed > > > > > > > > > modifications > > > > > > > > > > > > left to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > go. This is assuming I reuse my top end, > and I > > > > think > > > > > > based > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > what I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > see so far and from what the previous owner > told > > > > me, I > > > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > able > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to do so. Total restoration cost: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > $1113.53 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is assuming I purchase an OEM seat and > a used > > > > > > factory > > > > > > > > > > gas > > > > > > > > > > > > tank, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aftermarket UFO plastics, a DRC wiring kit > with a > > > > decent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > headlight/tail light combo and a smattering > of > > > > other > > > > > > > > > repairs > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > bike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > needs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This does NOT include the cost of tires. > The tires > > > > > > that are > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will last about a season of riding. After > that I > > > > > plan on > > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > > > decent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dual sport DOT knobbies. The bike may need > a rim > > > > > down the > > > > > > > > > > road > > > > > > > > > > > > too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I plan on using the old rim as long as > possible > > > > before > > > > > > > > > lacing > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > new > > > > > > > > > > > > > > one on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This does NOT include the cost of > registration, > > > > > > titling or > > > > > > > > > > > > insurance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's going to cost a substantial amount > just to > > > > get the > > > > > > > > > > > paperwork > > > > > > > > > > > > > > through on the title due to some problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This does NOT include my eventual plans to > spiff > > > > up the > > > > > > > > > frame > > > > > > > > > > > > that has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > some dings in the tubes. Straight used > frames can > > > > be > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > pretty > > > > > > > > > > > > cheap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So there you have it folks. Is it all worth > it? > > > > Well > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > > > going > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spending more than $1400 for an out of date > worn > > > > out > > > > > race > > > > > > > > > > bike. > > > > > > > > > > > To > > > > > > > > > > > > > > me, it's worth the time and pride of > knowing that > > > > I've > > > > > > done > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > best I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can. Given my reputation for forgetting > things, > > > > it will > > > > > > > > > > > probably > > > > > > > > > > > > cost > > > > > > > > > > > > > > closer to 2 large by the time I'm done with > this > > > > thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not a complaint or a call for > advice. This > > > > > is the > > > > > > > > > > facts > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what rebuilding a worn out old CR250 from > the 80s > > > > > really > > > > > > > > > > costs. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an expensive proposition and I knew it when > I got > > > > into > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > Truth > > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > told my estimate for final build cost was > within > > > > about > > > > > > 100 > > > > > > > > > > > bucks > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the actual cost of doing this rebuild. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just throwing it out there. I have detailed > all my > > > > > parts > > > > > > > > > > > sources, > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when this job is done I will be posting my > Excel > > > > > document > > > > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > > > > > for all > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to see who care to follow in my footsteps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Craig- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. Thanks to guys like Frank and Rick and > others > > > > > around > > > > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have already given me tons of solid advice > in a > > > > field > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > > > > > far > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from an expert on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get a free MP3 every day with the Spinner.com > Toolbar. Get > > > > > it Now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >