Hi Mike,

do you perhaps know which companies those are? (name/address)

Thanks!

Remco

md4etal wrote:

> Just for the record, the stuff we are working on is ML3.1  ...... The data
> structures of the ML4.1 are quite a bit more complicated.  There are two
> companies in Europe that sell hacks of this ecu, but you are looking at
> 600-900 dollars.  Still cheaper than a new ecu.
>
> mikeD

Just for the record, the stuff we are working on is ML3.1  ...... The data
structures of the ML4.1 are quite a bit more complicated.  There are two
companies in Europe that sell hacks of this ecu, but you are looking at
600-900 dollars.  Still cheaper than a new ecu.

mikeD


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
    Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 22:17:45 +0100
    From: "rebels with a cause - www.alfachallenge.com"
<newsgroup.alfaromeo@...>
Subject: newbie's question: where to start

Hi all,

I'm kind of a newbie at modifying/tuning EFI systems. Currently I'm
having an Alfa 75 2.0 TwinSpark containing a Bosch Motronic ML4.1 and
can't wait to start on modifying it. But I don't know where to start.
Any tips on what's the best approach for learning about the motronic
secrets?

Thanks!

Remco



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

There are several resources on this site to get you started.  Look
through the links, messages, and the files.  Not sure what else to
say.  Good luck!
--- In BoschDME@yahoogroups.com, "rebels with a cause -
www.alfachallenge.com" <newsgroup.alfaromeo@x> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm kind of a newbie at modifying/tuning EFI systems. Currently I'm
> having an Alfa 75 2.0 TwinSpark containing a Bosch Motronic ML4.1 and
> can't wait to start on modifying it. But I don't know where to start.
> Any tips on what's the best approach for learning about the motronic
> secrets?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Remco

Hi all,

I’m kind of a newbie at modifying/tuning EFI systems. Currently I’m
having an Alfa 75 2.0 TwinSpark containing a Bosch Motronic ML4.1 and
can’t wait to start on modifying it. But I don’t know where to start.
Any tips on what’s the best approach for learning about the motronic
secrets?

Thanks!

Remco

I finally unsoldered the eprom from my early 85 motronic system and
soldered in a 24 pin socket.  Then I took a blank chip and read in the
program from the old chip...and the Porsche lives again...one small
step...

Hey Everyone...Looking for an affordable programmer?

I have a Modular Circuit Technology EPROM Programmer for anyone
interested.  It comes with a programmer adapter card, one 28 Pin ZIF
socket and cable, one software disket, (EPROM Writer) and the user
manual.  It would be great for the 24 & 28 pin EPROMS found in the
Motronics.  I purchased it from Mike D (efidabbler), but I can not use
it with my laptop due to the need of the internal card.  It is about
brand spanking new, just a few years old.  Asking $90...

If you have any questions, feel free to email me.

The original DME units up till 88-89 were phillips 80C51 microcontrollers. I
have seen several references to 80C51 micros and Porsches.   There are
several freeware decompilers for it.  I found one on a google search.  Also
there is some obscure page that I found that translated some of the bosch
numbers to more common chips.  I will try to dig it up, I have a hard copy.

Mike D - no gainfully employed tuning generators

----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
    Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 01:47:23 -0000
    From: "Jim Roal" <jroal@...>
Subject: De-compiler


I have a question: What processor does my DME have?  Mine is the 55-
pin unit.  I posted a photo of the circuit boards to this group
earlier.  It looks like there is a processor on each board.  One is a
Motorola, the other an Intel.  I figured if I figured out which
processor I have, I could hint down a decompiler.  decompiling the
BIN files could give clues as to which areas to find things.  Just a
thought.

If you have the 24 pinner, it should be mounted in a socket unless you got a
rebuilt unit.
The one with the silver labe on it and number beginnine 213......

Mike D

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
    Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 23:20:52 -0000
    From: "Andy Dochterman" <andy.dochterman@...>
Subject: 1985 Porsche 944 DME


OK Guys...I finally pulled the DME out of my 85 Porsche 944.  I put
some pics of it in the photos section under my name.  To my suprise,
it has a 24 pin EPROM...I was expecting the older 4 prom chips.

Now I got to get that chip out and read.  Any suggestions or tips on
how to desolder the EPROM without ruining it?  Is there any
differences in the sockets that I should solder back in?

FYI...I have picked up a few other chips from other people on ebay.
Also purchase one of FRWILKs adapter boards and stock 944 eproms
(with the 'studder fix').  Guess I will be putting that in AJ Berb's
83 track car.

OK Guys...I finally pulled the DME out of my 85 Porsche 944.  I put
some pics of it in the photos section under my name.  To my suprise,
it has a 24 pin EPROM...I was expecting the older 4 prom chips.

Now I got to get that chip out and read.  Any suggestions or tips on
how to desolder the EPROM without ruining it?  Is there any
differences in the sockets that I should solder back in?

FYI...I have picked up a few other chips from other people on ebay.
Also purchase one of FRWILKs adapter boards and stock 944 eproms
(with the 'studder fix').  Guess I will be putting that in AJ Berb's
83 track car.

I have a question: What processor does my DME have?  Mine is the 55-
pin unit.  I posted a photo of the circuit boards to this group
earlier.  It looks like there is a processor on each board.  One is a
Motorola, the other an Intel.  I figured if I figured out which
processor I have, I could hint down a decompiler.  decompiling the
BIN files could give clues as to which areas to find things.  Just a
thought.

Andy:

I think I found the best DME editor last night.  I think Mike already has
it.  Go here:
http://www.atlantisconsultingllc.com/atlantis.php?page=Motronic%20Editor

Jim Roal
http://home.att.net/~jroal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Dochterman" <andy.dochterman@...>
To: <BoschDME@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 8:05 PM
Subject: [BoschDME] Re: memory maps for 911 Vs 944




You the man Mike D.  I haven't got my burner working yet, but I will
bring everything I have and let you read it.  I bought a few more
chips from ebay just so I (we) can do what you said...stare at the
files till something clicks.

I have a BUNCH of hex editors that I have found on the net in verious
places.  I will let Mike D and Jim R look them over and see if they
think the editors are "bosch DME" worthy...

Andy Doc
--- In BoschDME@yahoogroups.com, "efidabbler" <md4etal@n...> wrote:
>
> Okay guys, here are two things we need.  For the first one, we need
> A.Doc to pull his chip on the old 944 and get it read. That or pull
> the DME and give it to me. If you can't, I can.  I know you will be
> in the area, and you are welcome to stop by on Sunday to do it.
>
> Second - We need you guys to get a hex editor and stare at the
file.
>
> Here is why:
>
> I have the memory map location for an 84-87 911 Carerra.  I know
they
> are okay, I have burned three chips with them.  Here are the
> locations in Hex notation by the line number:
>
> Primary offset = $100  This means everything about this is non maps
> Fuel map part throttle = $A6 or $0A6
> Fuel map idle = $a8
> Fuel map wot = $AA
> timing map part throttle = $86
> timing map idle  = $8c
> Timing map WOT = $88
>
> So we need to look at these location in the old 944 code and see if
> the areas look like the Maps FRwilk has.  His maps look a lot like
> the maps from the 911, that is why I think it has the same location
>
> Mike D







Yahoo! Groups Links

You the man Mike D.  I haven't got my burner working yet, but I will
bring everything I have and let you read it.  I bought a few more
chips from ebay just so I (we) can do what you said...stare at the
files till something clicks.

I have a BUNCH of hex editors that I have found on the net in verious
places.  I will let Mike D and Jim R look them over and see if they
think the editors are "bosch DME" worthy...

Andy Doc
--- In BoschDME@yahoogroups.com, "efidabbler" <md4etal@n...> wrote:
>
> Okay guys, here are two things we need.  For the first one, we need
> A.Doc to pull his chip on the old 944 and get it read. That or pull
> the DME and give it to me. If you can't, I can.  I know you will be
> in the area, and you are welcome to stop by on Sunday to do it.
>
> Second - We need you guys to get a hex editor and stare at the
file.
>
> Here is why:
>
> I have the memory map location for an 84-87 911 Carerra.  I know
they
> are okay, I have burned three chips with them.  Here are the
> locations in Hex notation by the line number:
>
> Primary offset = $100  This means everything about this is non maps
> Fuel map part throttle = $A6 or $0A6
> Fuel map idle = $a8
> Fuel map wot = $AA
> timing map part throttle = $86
> timing map idle  = $8c
> Timing map WOT = $88
>
> So we need to look at these location in the old 944 code and see if
> the areas look like the Maps FRwilk has.  His maps look a lot like
> the maps from the 911, that is why I think it has the same location
>
> Mike D

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the BoschDME
group.

   File        : /spzw.exe
   Uploaded by : off_road98 <off_road98@...>
   Description : .HEX and .BIN file viewer/editor

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoschDME/files/spzw.exe

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

off_road98 <off_road98@...>

All,

I have a couple hex editors, but one is a free one
from Xeltek.  It is supposed to be the GUI interface
for the Xeltek SuperproZ universal device programmer
(in my case), but can be used without the programmer
to load and edit .bin/.hex files.  I'll put a link to
the .zip file on the forum.

Clint



--- Jim Roal <jroal@...> wrote:

>
> Mike:
>
> Excellent info and direction.  I have uploaded one
> stock 1987
> 944S .BIN file to this group.  That file was
> actually from a friends
> car.  I will get the BIN file from mine tomorrow and
> upload it too.
> They should be identical.  If they are, I won't
> bother uploading a
> complete duplicate.
>
> I downloaded Pomedit and another HEX editor.  What
> is the best one
> for this sort of lookup and comparison?  Is there
> value in comparing
> the 911 file with the 944 files?  Perhaps this would
> help us sort out
> executable instruction from calibration data.  We
> did compare
> Autothority 944S to stock 944S and the changes were
> significant
> everywhere.
>
> --- In BoschDME@yahoogroups.com, "efidabbler"
> <md4etal@n...> wrote:
> >
> > Okay guys, here are two things we need.  For the
> first one, we need
> > A.Doc to pull his chip on the old 944 and get it
> read. That or pull
> > the DME and give it to me. If you can't, I can.  I
> know you will be
> > in the area, and you are welcome to stop by on
> Sunday to do it.
> >
> > Second - We need you guys to get a hex editor and
> stare at the
> file.
> >
> > Here is why:
> >
> > I have the memory map location for an 84-87 911
> Carerra.  I know
> they
> > are okay, I have burned three chips with them.
> Here are the
> > locations in Hex notation by the line number:
> >
> > Primary offset = $100  This means everything about
> this is non maps
> > Fuel map part throttle = $A6 or $0A6
> > Fuel map idle = $a8
> > Fuel map wot = $AA
> > timing map part throttle = $86
> > timing map idle  = $8c
> > Timing map WOT = $88
> >
> > So we need to look at these location in the old
> 944 code and see if
> > the areas look like the Maps FRwilk has.  His maps
> look a lot like
> > the maps from the 911, that is why I think it has
> the same location
> >
> > Mike D
>
>
>
>




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
www.yahoo.com

Mike:

Excellent info and direction.  I have uploaded one stock 1987
944S .BIN file to this group.  That file was actually from a friends
car.  I will get the BIN file from mine tomorrow and upload it too.
They should be identical.  If they are, I won't bother uploading a
complete duplicate.

I downloaded Pomedit and another HEX editor.  What is the best one
for this sort of lookup and comparison?  Is there value in comparing
the 911 file with the 944 files?  Perhaps this would help us sort out
executable instruction from calibration data.  We did compare
Autothority 944S to stock 944S and the changes were significant
everywhere.

--- In BoschDME@yahoogroups.com, "efidabbler" <md4etal@n...> wrote:
>
> Okay guys, here are two things we need.  For the first one, we need
> A.Doc to pull his chip on the old 944 and get it read. That or pull
> the DME and give it to me. If you can't, I can.  I know you will be
> in the area, and you are welcome to stop by on Sunday to do it.
>
> Second - We need you guys to get a hex editor and stare at the
file.
>
> Here is why:
>
> I have the memory map location for an 84-87 911 Carerra.  I know
they
> are okay, I have burned three chips with them.  Here are the
> locations in Hex notation by the line number:
>
> Primary offset = $100  This means everything about this is non maps
> Fuel map part throttle = $A6 or $0A6
> Fuel map idle = $a8
> Fuel map wot = $AA
> timing map part throttle = $86
> timing map idle  = $8c
> Timing map WOT = $88
>
> So we need to look at these location in the old 944 code and see if
> the areas look like the Maps FRwilk has.  His maps look a lot like
> the maps from the 911, that is why I think it has the same location
>
> Mike D

Okay guys, here are two things we need.  For the first one, we need
A.Doc to pull his chip on the old 944 and get it read. That or pull
the DME and give it to me. If you can't, I can.  I know you will be
in the area, and you are welcome to stop by on Sunday to do it.

Second - We need you guys to get a hex editor and stare at the file.

Here is why:

I have the memory map location for an 84-87 911 Carerra.  I know they
are okay, I have burned three chips with them.  Here are the
locations in Hex notation by the line number:

Primary offset = $100  This means everything about this is non maps
Fuel map part throttle = $A6 or $0A6
Fuel map idle = $a8
Fuel map wot = $AA
timing map part throttle = $86
timing map idle  = $8c
Timing map WOT = $88

So we need to look at these location in the old 944 code and see if
the areas look like the Maps FRwilk has.  His maps look a lot like
the maps from the 911, that is why I think it has the same location

Mike D

Howdy Y'all!  I am pretty new to the Eprom Programming stuff, but am
ambitious enough to jump in.  As most of you have heard, my buddy and
I have a plethora of 944s and plan on racing next year.  I purchased
a eprom burner and a chip from Mike D, and can't wait to dig into
these.  I also plan on purchasing a couple other chips so I can do
some comparison.  I have a 85 Porsche 944 with the old DME, but just
bought one of FRWilk's adapter boards and chips with the 'studder'
removed..we'll see how that goes.

First off, can someone explain as to what to look for in the hex
files?  What areas control what part of the fuel injection?  I know
that is a loaded question, but just looking for some intial
guidance...

I am sure I will have many questions in the future, and would rather
post them here so that everyone can learn...

Take'er Eazy

Andy Doc

Hmm...flow bench...you want links...I gots the links :)

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/bench.htm
http://www.bikernet.com/garage/flowbench2-2003.asp
http://www.ag.auburn.edu/users/gparmer/articles/flowbench2/
http://tractorsport.com/cgi-bin/forum/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi
http://www.n2performance.com/flowquik.shtml


and one of the fathers of all head development
http://www.theoldone.com/ ...load in info on the forums!

in the process of designing and building a wet flow bench as we
speak...should be able to flow 1000+ cfm with all the motors running!


--- In BoschDME@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Roal" <jroal@w...> wrote:
>
> I just found this link to info on a flow bench.  Could be handy.
> http://www.passtimeracing.com/eric/Cars/Flow_Bench/Flow_Bench.htm

I just found this link to info on a flow bench.  Could be handy.
http://www.passtimeracing.com/eric/Cars/Flow_Bench/Flow_Bench.htm

Dudes,

There is a eprom map in the BMW files for a DME 3.1 same as ours.  It
is in promedit format, but the "offsets" are the same as what we
need.  I bet it will be very close.  I am trying to look up those
areas on a 911 binary image, will let you know.  Join in the fun,
fire up the hex/binary editors and have a look yourself.

Mike D.

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the BoschDME
group.

   File        : /hACK_FROM_jc.txt
   Uploaded by : efidabbler <md4etal@...>
   Description : Text of hack from Jim Conforti

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoschDME/files/hACK_FROM_jc.txt

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

efidabbler <md4etal@...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the BoschDME
group.

   File        : /binary file readers/hexfre20.zip
   Uploaded by : efidabbler <md4etal@...>
   Description : binary hex editor

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoschDME/files/binary%20file%20readers/hexfre20.zi\
p

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

efidabbler <md4etal@...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the BoschDME
group.

   File        : /Eprom chip datasheets/2716.pdf
   Uploaded by : efidabbler <md4etal@...>
   Description :

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoschDME/files/Eprom%20chip%20datasheets/2716.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

efidabbler <md4etal@...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the BoschDME
group.

   File        : /Eprom chip datasheets/2732.pdf
   Uploaded by : efidabbler <md4etal@...>
   Description :

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoschDME/files/Eprom%20chip%20datasheets/2732.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

efidabbler <md4etal@...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the BoschDME
group.

   File        : /Eprom chip datasheets/27c64.pdf
   Uploaded by : efidabbler <md4etal@...>
   Description :

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoschDME/files/Eprom%20chip%20datasheets/27c64.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

efidabbler <md4etal@...>

Many EFI dabblers desire the ability to make changes to their EPROM
on the fly.  I found this Emulator online on futurlec.com (pretty
cool website for microcontroller hobbyists).  It's only $89.00, but
it looks like it does what you need with a very basic DOS interface.
You would have to write your own GUI if you wanted any fancy
functionality.  Of course it's possible as "It's just software" :)
Here is the link: http://www.futurlec.com/EPROMEmulator.shtml

Regards,
Clint

Below is the link, but before you can access it you'll
have to sign up with a login name and password to
become a member.  It's no cost or anything, but they
have some pretty useful stuff occaisionally.  The
Atmel AVR microcontroller is primarily the one I have
been using at home for my small projects.  Hope you
find this useful.

http://www.avrfreaks.net/Freaks/freakshow.php?
keyword_is_id=1&keywords=185

The above link can also be found by navigating from
the avrfreaks homepage at "www.avrfreaks.net".  Click
on "Academy" at the top.  Below, you'll find a window
called "User Projects".  In there click on "Complete
code with HW".  Under this folder you'll find the
"Bosch Motronic Pickup Board 1.0.0" project.

I just invited the DIY-EFI moderator.  I also have a link to DIY-EFI
in the links section.  Take a look at the links I have and let me
know if I missed any good ones.

--- In BoschDME@yahoogroups.com, "efidabbler" <md4etal@n...> wrote:
>
> Good Idea Jim.
>
> We will get all this down in an archieve.  We should reference this
> list to several other sites:  Megasquirt and www.DIY-efi.org   Do
you
> want me to post the mapping information I have on the 944 and the
> 911??? let me know.
>
> Mike D

Good Idea Jim.

We will get all this down in an archieve.  We should reference this
list to several other sites:  Megasquirt and www.DIY-efi.org   Do you
want me to post the mapping information I have on the 944 and the
911??? let me know.

Mike D

I am planning to turbocharge my 944S.  In order to do this right, I
will need several fuel system upgrades.  This will of course require
special programming in the DME.  I am looking for any information
about this Bosch Motronic DME systems I can find.  I woudl like to
learn where the variables are in the chip and a map so I can custom
tune it.  I am hoping to do this all using the stock electronics
where possible, rather than just get an eftermarket EFI system.  I
will upload my factory BIN file in this forum.  If others already
have BIN files, please upload them as well.