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Concept ICE Project   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #953 of 1024 |
Re: [AltFuelVehicles-CT] Re: Concept ICE Project

I have been working in the fuel cell/hydrogen generation industry for 10 years and I had never heard of a "Joe Cell" until now.  Steve is absolutely correct that electrolysis-based hydrogen generation requires more energy than it can produce and this is clearly a non-starter.  All of these companies that claim efficiency boosts of 10-20% from little hydrogen kits are just snake oil salesmen.  On board hydrogen generation via fossil fuel reforming can be net positive (this has been successfully demonstrated many times), but I am not sure the performance or efficiency enhancements would be worth the effort.  One of the only practical applications I have seen for on board hydrogen generation (fossil fuel-based) has been to power a small fuel cell for auxiliary power.  This can be more efficient than idling a large diesel engine, for example, while the driver is pulled over and running the AC, TV etc.  I think this technology is still just waiting for fuel cell stack prices to come down, so it may be waiting for a long time.

I should add that biofuels can also be reformed into hydrogen, though the energy balance is greatly affected by the methods used to produce the biofuels.  This approach may or may not be net positive.

Bruce Crowder
http://www.ctenergyblog.com


On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Steve Spence <steve@...> wrote:


how about a butanol powered gasoline engine, or electric hybrid.

on board "hydrogen" generation is a non-starter, as it takes more power
to make the hydrogen than it contains, leading to more fuel consumption.
joe cells are examples of bogus marketing claims. nothing more special
than simple electrolysis.



Steve Spence
Renewable energy and self sufficiency
http://www.green-trust.org
http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/

foreverburningphoenix wrote:
>
>
>
> yes steve,
> Maybe I am going the wrong direction there, but a good friend of mine
> has an allergy to soy as well as certain other beans. Whenever a
> vegetable powered vehicle drives by she can't breathe so I would prefer
> a more hospitable alternative if you would like to offer advice to point
> me in the right direction it would be much appreciated
> thanks,
> wes
> --- In AltFuelVehicles-CT@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:AltFuelVehicles-CT%40yahoogroups.com>, Steve Spence <steve@...>

> wrote:
>>
>> joe cell? roflmao
>>
>>
>> Steve Spence
>> Renewable energy and self sufficiency
>> http://www.green-trust.org <http://www.green-trust.org>

>> http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/
> <http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> foreverburningphoenix wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Okay at this point in my research everything is still in the
>> > hypothetical phase but I will try my best to list off what might work...
>> >
>> > A modified Bourke engine with two direct injection fuel ports per
>> > cylinder - each cylinder getting a dose of diesel and hydrogen/oxygen
>> > why diesel and oxygen?
>> > a. diesel for the autoignition and hydrogen to compliment the diesel as
>> > well as reduce unburnt fuel
>> >
>> > hydrogen being produced on board by a cell similar i guess to the joe
>> > cell with the exception of using Ag for the anode instead of 316 steel
>> > or something
>> >
>> > do you guys think this would work?
>> >
>> > thanks,
>> > wes
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>




Wed Jul 8, 2009 2:20 pm

crowder_bruce
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Message #953 of 1024 |
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Okay at this point in my research everything is still in the hypothetical phase but I will try my best to list off what might work... A modified Bourke engine...
foreverburningphoenix
foreverburni...
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Jul 7, 2009
5:57 pm

joe cell? roflmao Steve Spence Renewable energy and self sufficiency http://www.green-trust.org http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/...
Steve Spence
sspence65
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Jul 7, 2009
7:51 pm

yes steve, Maybe I am going the wrong direction there, but a good friend of mine has an allergy to soy as well as certain other beans. Whenever a vegetable...
foreverburningphoenix
foreverburni...
Offline Send Email
Jul 7, 2009
10:01 pm

how about a butanol powered gasoline engine, or electric hybrid. on board "hydrogen" generation is a non-starter, as it takes more power to make the hydrogen...
Steve Spence
sspence65
Offline Send Email
Jul 8, 2009
1:25 pm

I have been working in the fuel cell/hydrogen generation industry for 10 years and I had never heard of a "Joe Cell" until now. Steve is absolutely correct...
Bruce Crowder
crowder_bruce
Offline Send Email
Jul 8, 2009
2:22 pm
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